Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2020/2021

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    And on the rewatch, I thought Arriola was one of the better players in Panama. It was what he usually brings.
     
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  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't particularly overrate Paul Arriola individually, but I value the type of player he is. Tim Weah brings a lot of the same, and I think there's just fundamentally a different type of impact these kinds of players bring than other styles, and there's times where they are a better fit. I just find the but-Konrad-is-in-Ligue-1 argument wildly uncompelling.

    I just don't really get the hate, given his performances, and I see a whole lot of people harping on every mistake but forgiving others. He's the current whipping boy even though he didn't play poorly.

    Finally, I don't think we should ever underestimate effort and work rate. We've seen our A team underperform when they clearly aren't bringing the intensity -- the players have said it themselves. Nowhere in international play against even a decent side can you be guaranteed of 3 points if you don't bring it.

    Of course, every player can bring it. But even with the talent upgrades, we cannot afford half efforts. That's already been proven out this WCQ cycle.
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Watching Roma-Bodo highlights ..... the silver lining is that the goals mostly came down the other side. The only one where Reynolds' guy scored was the fifth one, which was fluky, because the ball hurtled unexpectedly out of a rugby scrum straight to his guy. A couple other times, his guy was in position to score. But it seemed like in those situations, the play collapsed so quickly and thoroughly on the other side that he ended up slightly out of position. Didn't have any highlight going forward, however.
     
  4. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Scally maybe already better than A. Robinson at left back. Of course, with his recent performance, A. Robinson should start.
     
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  5. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    VictoryWePredict4Thee BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 4, 2019
    Why'd you still want Arriola after Couva? He was bad in WCQ as he always is.
     
  6. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you were actually training during these windows, yes. Unless you want to find out if he can play the position...in a qualifier?
    Thinking of partnerships, has Dest looked better with a less direct winger with high work rate in front of him (for the US)? I'm comparing Dest playing behind Pulisic/Konrad to his performances playing behind Arriola/Weah. Weah should be ahead of Arriola in this role (finally), but we've seen the domino effect having a lower defensive work rate at wing in front of Dest (Adams ends up covering defensively, and our we lose midfield shape). Arriola did a lot to help Dest be successful against Jamaica. Is the skill set replaceable? Sure, but it's a skill set that amplifies probably our most attacking individual that's currently healthy (Dest).
     
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  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Cuz hustle, duh.

    Sargent hustle w no goals? 5th choice striker, dropped from the team.

    Arriola hustle w no goals? 3 straight starts with the A team.

    It's people here wanting to be the smartest in the room along w Egg. When presented with simple facts, the only thing to stand on is "derp, you're so emotional!" and "euro fanboi!" when Europe isn't mentioned at all.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Really, who didn't see this coming?
    When Mourinho was hired we all said it was absolutely terrible for Reynolds.
    Jose isn't interested in developing young players.

    Everybody said that Reynolds is promising, but raw. A kid with tools that need to be refined. The kid had played in like 12 games for FCD at right back.

    Supposedly Roma wanted to loan Reynolds out this past window, but Bryan and his representation didn't want that. That's the scuttlebutt anyway.

    Sometimes moves don't work out.

    All I know is FCD made out like a bandit on that sale. Took the money and ran!!
     
  9. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    #5834 Maximum Optimal, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
    Two-game window. Dest can play left back if necessary. I have no problem bringing in both Scally AND Vines. But if Gregg brings in just one, it should be Scally.

    Not only would I call in Scally in the November window, I would do so with the intent to prepare him to start a game in the January window. Talent is like beauty. It should be shared. Widely.

    “From fairest creatures we desire increase, that thereby beauty’s rose might never die.” Will Shakespeare (a man with keen insight on various things including who to call up in the next window)
     
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  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t see how anyone hires this guy. What a horrible man manager. I’m not one who is all hugs and cuddles about players - but I am one who asks, how does this make you better? And how does this make you better to denigrate your “second squad.” Moreover, if you didn’t trust them, why did you throw them out there like that? What did you gain by doing so? He could have responded, “We have a lot of guys that we wanted to try out to determine their readiness for the first team. What today’s result shows us is that we still have a lot of work to do.” Boom! That’s all you’ve got to say. You can let people know that their performance is not up to standard, but this stance of “you suck. I shouldn’t be burdened by your presence” is piss poor leadership. Besides, every decent leader knows, you praise publicly, and criticize privately.

    For all the crap about Berhalter, which I’ve been very critical of him myself, I at least respect that he’s a good man manager and seems to genuinely care about these players’ well being.
     
  11. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Somewhere along the line he began believing in his THE SPECIAL ONE moniker a bit too much. I gave up on him during the whole female physio situation during his 2nd stint with Chelsea.
     
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  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps my head has been in the sand... but what happened here?
     
  13. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the things about him earlier in his career was that he really did have a good relationship with his players. When he left Chelsea the first time it was reported that Drogba, Lampard, Terry, etc were devastated/upset/crying. See for instance https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/dro...rinho-left-sacking-/f9xensyvp5uu13jl9i9t5v14t. These days it seems like players do not like him at all and that he loses the dressing room very easily.
     
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  14. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    #5839 Maximum Optimal, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
    With respect to Arriola I would make the following points:

    1) I see him as a cut above Roldan, Acosta, Zardes and Lletget among old-guard players. Eye test tells me he is more effective at the international level.

    2) I don't see him as being as good as Aaronson and Weah.

    3) Hoppe isn't playing with his club. Konrad is playing a bit more, but has been inconsistent with OM. To me Hoppe, Konrad and Arriola are a close call. The next week or two of club play should determine which two to call up in the next window.

    I would call up 4 wide attacking players. Assuming Pulisic and Reyna are out, that would mean Aaronson and Weah plus two of Arriola, Konrad and Hoppe.
     
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  15. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is when Eden Hazard drew a foul late in the game and the Chelsea physios (including Eva Carneiro) quickly ran onto the field at the request of the center ref. Going to treat him meant Chelsea would be down to 9 briefly, late in the game, as they chased the winner (I believe they were already down a man to a red card).

    Mourinho lost his shit and cursed his staff during the game. He went to the press conference and said Carneiro was naive, did not understand the game, overstepped her boundaries by entering the field without his permission, etc. Basically, he was saying that Hazard was down only to get the card and that anyone who is smart would have known that. He then fired Carneiro after a few weeks of a de facto suspension.

    It was the end of the end for Mourinho at Chelsea. He completely lost the team immediately after the incident, and he did not survive the season. Mind you, he had just won the league (Chelsea was the reigning PL champion) and Mourinho was the reigning manager of the year from that title winning season.
     
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  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Its just sort of embarrassing. You want a coach that encourages and develops the young 2nd stringers. To help them get better. You don't want your coach just throwing them under the bus in the article circle to prove a point. How about developing Bryan Reynolds instead of bitching about him not being good enough?

    Jose Mourinho is great at clubs with established veteran stars. He's not going to be good at a club with young players that require development. He IS one of the most decorated managers ever. We can't take that away from him. Let's not forget he's won titles in the Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, and the Portuguese Primeira Liga. And he won the cup competitions in all of those countries too.

    We all saw this coming.

    Reynolds needed to go on loan for this season.
     
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  17. Ironbound

    Ironbound Member+

    Jul 1, 2009
    When he was winning, he was able to direct his a-hole persona toward opponents and be seen as a charming scamp who attracted attention to himself to protect his players. He was this quasi-mythical figure who would lead a group of players to the top of the mountain and then disappear during the celebration — maybe after one showily tearful hug — because it hurt too much to say goodbye.

    That all worked as long as he was winning everything. Once his results started slipping, he seemed to turn his gift for bitterness inward toward his players, and the results have been predictable.
     
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  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Arriola. His position in the team depends what is needed. His skillset is that of a shuttler. If you want to play with a shuttler then you can play him. If you don't want a shuttler then you play Weah, Konrad, Aaronson, Pulisic, etc.

    Roldan and Arriola play in the same league. Roldan has been superior during this late season. Over the past month, he has clearly taken his attacking game to another level. For Seattle, he has 5 goals and 2 assists in his last 7 starts. As for NT play in 2021, he has 2 assists in competitive matches. Arriola has none.

    I'd expected GGG to rotate Arriola and Roldan along the right side. It's odd he instead proceeded to run Arriola into the ground.
     
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  19. FTGOTC

    FTGOTC Member

    Feb 21, 2021
    I haven’t really seen this discussed much, but there is the option of bringing Dest in to play two positions—not the RB/LB combo people think of, but rather as an outside back and winger.

    If Pulisic and Reyna are still out, and Hoppe (whom I love) isn’t playing much, is it so much of a stretch to consider Dest as an option on the wing? Is there anything about his skill set that doesn’t suggest he’d be good out there?

    By doing that you could start a more defensively-sound Scally at right back, and an in-form Robinson at left back.

    I don’t know if that’s our first option or not, but it’s definitely an option.
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Long term, I don't like the idea of Dest-as-winger, because I think a lot of his value is wrapped up in the fact that he does what he does from RB, and the drop-off of his offensive contributions to the next right back is far bigger than the difference between him and the next right wing.

    That said, I think you bring up a completely viable option for this window. He can definitely play RW -- there's no doubt the skillset is there.

    Here's why I wouldn't do it unless disaster struck:
    • Dest performed really well last window in the RB position paired with a more direct, vertical winger. Even without getting into the whole Arriola thing, even if you Weah, his style is both more complementary to Dest but also to Aaronson on the other side. Our offense simply had better spacing and better options with this set-up. In a lot of ways, Dest's game of cutting inside, of dribbling, is better suited to an offensive RB than a RW -- he's not going to make the off ball runs that a Tim Weah makes.
    • It's yet another change on an offense that everyone agrees can be disjointed at times. Is it worth it simply to let some players settle? Isn't this simply getting cute again, so to speak?
    • Do we really know if the defensive set up is more solid? People on here seem to think that Scally is a strong defensive fullback, but he wasn't on the U17 team. That was a couple of years ago, so maybe he is better now. But even if he is ... Dest has not been poor on the right side like he has on the left, and there will be a considerable drop-off on pressing, etc. versus a Weah/Arriola on the RW. Is Dest/Scally better than Weah/Dest? I'm not sure the gap is there.
    • Especially when our two choices are at home versus Mexico and on the road. I'm no adamantly opposed to a player start if he comes into camp and looks amazing, but this adds to the risk profile.
    If there's injuries, I can see where it's an option. I'm not sure I see the point -- it feels a little bit like unnecessarily loading onto the field what people perceive as talent for talent's sake.
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't think of Arriola as a shuttler. Shuttlers progress the ball from defense to offense for me, but maybe I am using the term wrong.

    He's a dude who defends, creates space through his runs and movement, and occasionally makes a play. That's all. Roldan is not dissimilar, but in a lot of ways I feel like he is scrappier, kind of a midfield/winger poacher.

    This team struggled with spacing in the first window, as all our players repeatedly bunched up, allowing the defense to basically double and triple team the ball without actually leaving anyone open.

    That, plus his defense and intensity, is why I like Arriola playing. That's pretty much all. (The team also struggled with intensity.) He fills a team need.

    If someone else fills it better, great. I'm not sure why Arriola was going to start all three games. I suspect he was getting 45 and Timo was getting the back 45, but we will likely never know.

    Weah probably takes his role long term, but we need someone in that role.
     
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  22. dams

    dams Member+

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    Seems like having Dest on the field at right back is like having an extra attacker. As long as we are not vulnerable down the right flank, which against weaker teams may not be much of an issue, I like him at the RB spot.

    I think with Dest, what is even more important than where he is played though is who he is paired with. If you have been watching him for Barca this year (and the Nats), his natural tendency is to almost always cut inside with the ball, particularly when he is on the right.

    When everyone is healthy, if Gregg is going to play Reyna on the wing, him and Dest are going to be competing for the same space, running into each other, and dribbling into defenders. I think we saw with Costa Rica how Dest and Timo had a bit of chemistry going and I'm not surprised as Weah's skillset is going to be a little more adept at staying a bit wider and bringing the ball to the end line.

    If Scally becomes an option, he may work well with Dest on the wing, or Reyna. Personally, I'm going to want Gio and Dest on the field together as much as is reasonable though. If Gio moves to the right he is competing with Pulisic and Aaronson. So the way I see it is that without a formation change, or moving Gio to the midfield, when everyone is healthy, Gregg may have to keep some of our top attackers off the field at any given time. Or he may just roll with Gio at the right wing and Dest at the right back. I'm not sure that is a recipe for success though.
     
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  23. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing is that we keep hearing that Scally is a sure-shot from his most ardent supporters. If they truly believe that and are correct, Dest moving forward to make room for him on the backline should be a great idea.
     
  24. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Starting Scally against Mexico in WCQ for his first appearance with no previous camps would be "cute". Especially since we will probably be trying to play out through Mexico's press. Do you want him playing through the high press with players he has never played with before? I might bring him and try to get him 20-30 mins against Jamaica if we are winning or need a goal late in the match (pushing Dest up to RW).
     
  25. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    With respect to Dest as a wide attacking player in the upcoming cycle, who do you prefer on the field:

    1) Dest and Weah

    or

    2) Dest and Yedlin

    The question answers itself.
     
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