Josh Sargent has acquired a reputation as a forward who doesn't score. And he added mightily to it this past weekend by blowing not one but two golden opportunities. Yet, he was arguably Norwich's best player against Brighton. Such is the life of a forward. And it wasn't just me who thought so. His own coach said the same thing after the game. And has consistently praised his play all season. Maybe his coach is being a good psychologist and acting on the belief that a pat on the back is what Josh needs. But imo he has been Norwich's best and most dangerous attacking player this season. And I've watched all but one of their matches. But forwards are supposed to score goals and Josh hasn't. Except he has scored goals this season. Four of them. Amazing isn't it. I bet very few people know Josh Sargent has scored four goals this season. But he has. And not in pre-season. He scored a brace for Werder Bremen in his last game with them. Could have been a hat trick but another player was called offside. And he scored another brace for Norwich in an FA Cup match. Now none of those goals were against Bundesliga or Premiership sides. They were against Bundesliga 2 and Championship sides, about the equivalent to MLS teams or slightly better. So from watching the games, as well as his output of goals scored, Josh has actually been in pretty good form for his clubs this season. I know that to make this declaration will raise some eyebrows and spark some discussion. But hey this is a discussion board. And I've always enjoyed throwing out a contrarian view and seeing what happens.
I'd also add that he's been around awhile, so folks tend to forget that he's only 21 years old. Technically a USYNTer this year as he was eligible for the Olympic squad. And based on how shallow our pool is, he'll be back in. People can criticize Sargent all they want. When you ask them to name who they'd call up instead, they mention guys who aren't in great form either. I mean, yes I wanna see more of Matthew Hoppe. But do people realize that the last goal Matthew Hoppe scored in club soccer was in May? So don't tell me you want to leave out 21 year old Josh Sargent due to his goal drought, but want to call up 20 year old Matthew Hoppe because he's in better form. Matthew just came out of nowhere so they think of him as a precious prospect to be developed. Meanwhile they judge Josh Sargent as a finished article that is fully developed. Hogwash. [On the other hand, I'm fine with Berhalter leaving Sargent out. Hopefully it lit a fire within him.]
Norwich City has only scored a total of 2 goals in 8 matches, both by Teemu Pukki, the Finnish striker. No one else has scored. They are an awful team and will surely go down. Josh has missed some easy goals. Maybe he will improve. It won't matter in the end. They are going down.
I've picked two relegation-threatened teams with Americans on them to follow this season. Venezia and Norwich. Have watched pretty much every one of their games. Venezia is in better shape at this point. But I like both teams' chances of staying up. The coaches are both excellent. They both added some good talent late in the transfer window, which has resulted in their needing some time to figure out their best lineups. But they are figuring it out and growing into the level of play required for staying up. Both teams are playing with different personnel and formations from what they were using at the start of the season. And they have been highly competitive in their recent matches. Norwich plays Chelsea at Stamford Bridge this weekend. Last place versus first place. I think it will be a competitive match.
Devil’s advocate: Matthew Hoppe exudes more confidence, swagger, and energy than Josh Sargent. Sargent is a great team player. But you can tell that he’s had his killer instinct coached out of him. Perhaps some will say that’s a good thing. But I like my forwards to have a little bit of a chip on the shoulder. And it comes down to who do you trust will take a shot at goal? Personally, I favor Hoppe over Sargent, at the moment, to put the team on its back when we need a goal because his temperament indicates that Hoppe is looking to be a goal scorer; whereas, Sargent’s temperament looks to allow someone else to be a goal scorer. In short, perhaps, Sargent would benefit by hanging out with Clint Mathis or Jeff Cunningham. Someone who might drive their teammates bonkers, but also someone who isn’t scared to say, screw yall, I’m putting this ball in the back of the net.
Sargent will generate more good scoring opportunities. Pepi and Hoppe will put more of them on frame. I like all three. They each bring something different. And all three are young enough to potentially have some significant improvement ahead of them. I like Dike too, who brings some entirely different attributes.
Yeah, I said something similar a while back in his YA thread. I think when he first came into the Werder Bremen first team, he scored a couple goals right out of the gate, but Kohfeldt just kept talking about how he needed to get better defensively, holding the ball up, etc. Sargent took that to heart and legitimately improved the other areas of his game, but lost the killer instinct that made him attractive to Bundesliga clubs in the first place. Maybe he needs to drop down a level to rediscover it and be an alpha dog on a Championship/2nd Bundesliga team. And the good news is that Norwich is likely to provide him with that opportunity!
100%. 1 - he needs to drop down to be a big fish in a little pond again. And 2 - He needs to be un-Kohlfedt.
I like Dike too... But I want to see him improve his hold up game and become even more aggressive. Instead of playing D&D and Magic in his off time, he needs to listen to some heavy metal or gangster rap, drink Rip-it’s, and shoot some guns or chop some wood to develop that inner hunger to devour anyone who comes up against him. Because right now his voice is incongruent with what you’d expect from this could-be, unstoppable monster. I mean, just imagine, what kind of force he would be to deal with if he would just embrace terrorizing dudes. Damn it, he’s just too freaking nice. Let me add... What you wanna see vs What I actually imagine Dike listening to lol.
There is still more than a year until the World Cup (if we qualify). Our striker situation is .....fluid. I have no problem with Berhalter riding the hot hands. At the moment, that is Pepi & Zardes. In June it was Sargent & Pefok. Josh has gotten more minutes in A matches (NL, WCQ) than any other striker save Pepi, with some of those coming wide. He has had good moments, saved a goal with a great clearance, but no production (goals or assists). If one includes Gold Cup, Pepi, Pefok, Zardes, and even Dike have gotten on the scoresheet (Qatar as Asian champs brought their A squad, that should count as least as much as Honduras in NL semis; Martinique? Not so much). Hoppe needs playing time. I love his swagger, but if he is not playing....
I've been skeptical of Josh due to his lack of scoring for some time now. Still, I thought it was pretty bizarre that he went from locked in starter to not even in the squad all of a sudden. I still think Pepi is the way to go up top, but I think Josh should still be in the conversation and likely should be part of the squad. When players don't change much in how they are performing but their status in the team changes so dramatically, it just strikes me as very odd. The one thing I can point to is with his lack of scoring, he's not someone you throw on with 20 minutes left to chase a goal and you only sub in a forward if you're trying to score. So...
I don't think it is odd at all. We have a sort of bland goo of mediocre forwards. We can say Sargent was the starter, but he wasn't necessarily all that much ahead of anyone else. Pefok just committed to the US recently, Pepi just started playing, Dike broke out last year. It's not like we had an established hierarchy of 5 year veterans. For the September window, two of that bland goo were injured, or coming off injury -- Zardes and Dike. Which includes the player most like Sargent (Zardes). And Matthew Hoppe, where-ever he sits, was in transfer limbo. Sargent started the first game, but he started over an 18 year old with zero caps or even call-ups -- Pepi -- and Jordan Pefok, who still seems a bit situational. Both Sargent and Pefok failed to perform in their starts, and Pepi absolutely performed. Sargent got a ton of chances and failed to deliver. He shouldn't be out of the pool or anything, but I think it is entirely reasonable that he went from starting to not called up, especially if you really only called two strikers. I just don't think the drop from 1 to 5 is all that far, especially when the new #1 entered the pool in the interim.
I don't disagree that the guys up top are pretty clustered together, just find it odd when you see such big shifts in status over a short period of time even if the differences are small. Then again, I find it odd when guys were not on the original call up sheet but end up being starters, which we've seen a couple times. No big deal and it's worked out fine, just unusual.
Good thread and post. Sargent should continue to be in the pool and is still young. As you and others noted, the US doesn't have luxury of having 2-3 quality strikers. For at least the next couple of years, we are going to have leverage the hot hands among 4-5 or more players. In his last match, I thought that Josh actually looked faster and a little more physical. Both good signs. Still, his finishing skills need improve in the next couple of years. You can see why coaches like him because he does a lot of the little stuff well...except for scoring. I like the suggestion of going to a lesser league to get confidence and form.
Yeah, I'm not giving up on Sargent at all. It's a position that often takes a bit for players to really develop, and Sargent has a lot of natural talent and skills going for him. But he's not scoring. He's not scoring for club, and he's not scoring for country. What's more, he's not playing well for country. The September window wasn't just Josh not scoring from lack of service; he was a prime contributor. He got in people's way, rather than clearing out space. He mangled quality through balls. He failed to get shots off quickly. Just not good. If he were killing it at Norwich (or Bremen before that), I'd question things more. But he's not. He's a workmanlike guy at striker, and while having an all-around striker is great and acceptable, Bobby Firmino is still scoring double digit goals. And he's playing next to two quality scorers. Play what works. Bring in Sargent when it makes sense, and that's probably when he gets in a good run of club form or adds more to his game. Or when we have so many injuries or people out of form he really is next best.
Sargent played right mid in the B2 match in which scored the brace. Bournemouth fielded a reserve side in the EFL Cup match, in which Sargent played striker and scored another brace. There is very little to recommend this player receive a call up at striker.
Sure. You're right. But after Pepi, I think we can say the same about everybody. Am I supposed to be impressed by the goal Pefok scored against Man United? Basically I see our forward pool as Pepi and "coach's choice" at the moment. If people want to make an impassioned case for Hoppe because he has more "determination"................go for it. But he hasn't scored a goal since May. I've got my eyes peeled on Dike to see if he's back on track. Some seem to have forgotten how hot that guy was less than half a year ago. A physical beast that should do well against CONCACAF opposition. Anyway, my point is that if Berhalter calls up Sargent in November I'll say..................."OK." What am I supposed to say? "Yeah call up Gioacchini. I know he hasn't scored a goal this year, but he's also an option." We've called up Sebastian Soto within the last year, and he's fallen off the face of planet Earth. Uly Llanez has 3 caps now and is a squad rotation player in the Austrian 2nd division.
We have 1 striker scoring goals, Pepi, and about 4 others who really aren't. The space between #2 and 4 or 5 is miniscuel and always fluid.
The OP contained claims that did not truly support his argument. I highlighted them. I'm not interested in who should impress you.
Under Berhalter's tenure, against decent sides, there are strikers whose NT goals-assists records are better than Sargent's. The US don't contain a murder's row of strikers. But right now, Sargent doesn't even make the petty crime section. He's young. He can improve. Now is not his time. At striker. And Hoppe and Sargent both play in top-5 leagues. Hoppe has the significantly better record. It's not even close.
Sargent remains our most talented striker. Pepi looks good, and is on better form. He should be starting. Sargent should be the 2nd striker called in. So many cherry picked stats on both sides. But he's still our most valued striker, at least until Pepi sells. He won a starting job in the BL at 19. He immediately won a starting job in the EPL at 21. I'll take the "eye test" of those managers (even Kohfeldt), and the "imperfect" market over the BS experts, 8 days of the week.
This is a good point. The coaches and the "market" know their business. Transfer prices contain information we should all incorporate into our assessments. I know there is a school of thought that denigrates giving too much weight to pedigree. But it does embody a certain amount of information. I thought Farke made an interesting tweak to how Norwich played in their last match. It was the first time that Puki played underneath Sargent most of the match. We'll see if he sticks to it. But I think it is a good idea. Sargent has more of an ability to pressure center backs with speed and physical play.
There is very little evidence that Sargent is the US's ' most talented striker'. He does, however, have a devoted fanbase. Claiming 'cherry picked!' does not constitute much of an argument in the player's favour. His numbers at strikers have been pretty horrible. Did well against Cuba and Bournemouth reserve teams, though. Great. Werder Bremen got relegated. Norwich look to be heading in that direction as well. The 'eye test' of those managers perhaps tell us they think of Sargent as a prospect or a high-level 2nd division players.
It's a piece of data. Entirely valid, but a piece, unless you are willing to believe markets are perfectly liquid, with perfect information and that no one ever makes a mistake. And if you do, I have a bridge to sell you. We have a ton of data on Sargent. Hours and hours of tape of actual performances. Is it a data point that Norwich spent money on him? Sure. But should it override actual, real performance? Ignoring real data -- like say, actual performances is a good way to lose games.