US Goalkeeper discussion thread - Part III

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ussoccer97531, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there a way to compare how many shots each faces (comparatively)? I feel that that Turner is a better shot stopper but also will face more shots because his clearances put the ball back in play to the other team. Steffen may help to create more offense too which could be quite important for our low scoring bunch. The apples to apples part would make this hard with different leagues and teams faced with the national team.
     
  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The guy I think would have stopped the CR goal is Horvath because he is good at making himself big.

    It's almost terrifying to think Horvath is on the bench in Championship when I watch some of the goal keeping week in week out in top 5.
     
    Cynical US fan repped this.
  3. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    I had a prob with Freidel for this and his arrogance and his tendency to create more saves for himself with dumb rebounds - but that became chronic as goalkeeping has evolved. "Back in the day" keepers were taught and expected and did make spectacular reaction saves while being nevertheless expected to catch and hold the ball; failing that turn shots judiciously and carefully around a post or over the bar, or parry the ball safely. (You can learn to parry the ball strategically even in the gap of miliseconds - and I still see keepers go unrecognized for that, deliberately knocking a ball out to a fullback's feet or kick-saving to start a counter.) Friedel was one of those front foot "aggressive" keepers - in his stance, not command of the box and area around it - and IMO like a lot of those keepers he'd knock the ball right back into trouble. And rather than getting benched he'd be applauded for a second or third save heroics before picking it out of the net. Seemed to reflect something going on his head. But no one can deny his career in Europe, esp his England years.
     
  4. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Friedel improved his ability to control his box as time went on and he was never as poor at it as Turner. Find me a clip of Friedel letting someone head a ball two steps in front of him and a yard off the goal line. I'm not anti-Turner and I think the starting role is an open debate. But it is absurd to think we shouldn't expect a goalie to control his 6-yard box or that pointing out when someone fails to do so is somehow overly demanding. It's not the end of the world; it was just one goal. But it was a mistake and one that his play shows is not unlikely to happen again so obviously it is part of the discussion.
     
    Honore de Ballsac and Winoman repped this.
  5. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I've been back and forth with Turner's ceiling and Steffen's floor. I've been more positive with Turner's foot skills but I am again seeing a ceiling that is too low for my taste. Likewise, Steffen's inconsistency is a product of his ManCity status but I was hoping to see him develop out of it. He hasn't.
     
  6. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Yeah, IMO our keeper's might rise to the occasion, might not. Turner's been a great surprise, but overall we don't have a Keller/Freidel/Meola scenario here, or even a Howard/Guzan/Hahnemann thing, IMO.
     
  7. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Steffen (and maybe Turner) are every bit as good if not better than Meola. And the expectations for how keepers play today is a lot different than in Meola's time. Hard to compare them on foot skill ability.
     
  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Steffen/Horvath/Turner are at least as good as the crew in 1998.
     
    deejay and xbhaskarx repped this.
  9. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Never wanted to like Meola, and always rated Keller much higher than him, but he was very good.
    Yeah the game's changed, as I mentioned above I'm not necessarily more impressed with current goalkeeping. But you know Meola had good feet, right? He was a pretty good field player. From what I can see, Meola and Rimando were better with their feet than Steffen.
     
  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel like we’ll get a better sense of how Steffen compares to the previous generation if/when he leaves Man City when we see what level of club he ends up with.

    Similarly with Turner we’ll what level of club tries to sign him in January and if he ends up going anywhere.
     
  11. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How about Man U signs him!
     
    gomichigan24 repped this.
  12. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Interesting conversation in another thread. One poster acknowledges that Turner has been giving up a bunch of goals lately, but then goes on to say maybe it doesn't matter has he has been so good with the USMNT. Another poster then claimed that both goals given up last night were good goals and mean nothing for Turner.

    Anyways, the goals are at 2;20 and 6:50 of the highlights. Turner also had a number of saves throughout the game.

     
  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2563 xbhaskarx, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    With #3 goalkeepers having a 0.001% chance of playing in a 2-3 game WCQ window, Horvath having disappeared once again, Ochoa sold us out for El Tri, Marcinkowski nothing too special, MLS vets like Johnson/Hamid/Guzan having no shot to ever overtake our top two... why not call up Gabriel Slolina?
     
  14. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Turner is my first choice, but no point in either guy being "frustrated or upset" unless they can actually raise their level to become the undisputed #1 and make the coach's decision for them... not criticizing, you want players to feel that way (see also Hoppe at GC).

     
  15. Ironbound

    Ironbound Member+

    Jul 1, 2009
    Here's the full quote from the story, for the record. Slightly different than what the tweet says.

     
  16. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Headline is misleading. Here’s the full quote:
    Gregg told me the day before the game," Turner said. "I feel like I was able to express my frustration and disappointment, but in a way that I was also respecting the decision he made.

    "Obviously, Zack is a great goalkeeper. From there, my job is to make Zack feel the best he possibly can for the game so that we win. The opportunity to represent our country is bigger than all of us as individuals. You have a responsibility to put your best foot forward in whatever role you’re given."

    From my limited experience, athletes/teams at high levels are really unrealistic about how good they are. And you kind of need that confidence to really succeed. It makes perfect sense that Turner would be upset to be pulled when he had been doing so well in terms of keeping the ball out of the net. It would be kind of weird for a guy to be content to sit on the bench. Seems like he’s handling it well, though.
     
    tomásbernal, deejay and xbhaskarx repped this.
  17. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course he would be upset and disappointed. In fact we would be very alarmed if he wasn't! Athletes at this level, regardless of the sport, are highly competitive and want to be on the field of play.

    In sports most every good player gets playing time. With two exceptions. The keeper in soccer and the QB in football just don't rotate much at all. So much of how the play is based on continuity. They typically don't change them unless they are injured or aren't performing.
     
  18. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I think our history with Friedel and Keller shows you just how ugly competition can get between two candidates for the #1 position without becoming a total liability. I'm guessing we're nowhere near that point yet.

    Though I think those two really tested the limits of that. See this article during the 2001 Hex for example about Arena's rotation between the two keepers.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/national/2001-08-31-goalkeepers.htm

    (Keller strongly implies there that Friedel pressured Arena into giving the latter GK starts by threatening to quit the national team if he didn't, and Keller for his part aired a lot of dirty laundry to the press that I really doubt we'd tolerate these days.)
     
    Boysinblue, Honore de Ballsac and deejay repped this.
  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reasonable summary IMO with one really big exception. I hardly give Turner the best for positioning? He sits on his line. How is that the best?
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  21. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2571 Eleven Bravo, Oct 23, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
    How I rate keepers:
    1. Consistency/Reliability (not error prone): Most Critical
      • Turner: B
      • Steffen: C
      • Johnson: C
      • Guzan: B
      • Horvath: C
    2. Positioning (includes Concentration): Critical
      • Turner: A -
      • Steffen: A -
      • Johnson: B -
      • Guzan: B
      • Horvath: B -
    3. Shot-Stopping (Reflexes and Range): Critical
      • Turner: A +
      • Steffen: A
      • Johnson: A
      • Guzan: C +
      • Horvath: A
    4. Handling (doesn’t give up rebounds and can handle aerial clearances): Critical
      • Turner: A -
      • Steffen: A
      • Johnson: C
      • Guzan: A
      • Horvath: C +
    5. Leadership (Experience, Decision-Making, Command, Communication, Influence): Critical
      • Turner: B
      • Steffen: B
      • Johnson: B
      • Guzan: A +
      • Horvath: D
    6. Physical Presence (size, aggressiveness, range, and speed off the mark): Very important
      • Turner: B
      • Steffen: A
      • Johnson: A -
      • Guzan: A
      • Horvath: B -
    7. Distribution (Vision, Foot skills, throwing, kicking): Nice to have
      • Turner: C -
      • Steffen: B +
      • Johnson: C +
      • Guzan: C +
      • Horvath: C +
     
    ifsteve repped this.
  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2572 Eleven Bravo, Oct 23, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
    For reference.... peak Howard, Friedel, and Keller.

    edit: let me add Meola

    1. Consistency/Reliability
    • Howard: A -
    • Friedel: A -
    • Keller: A +
    • Meola: B
    2. Positioning
    • Howard: C
    • Friedel: A
    • Keller: A +
    • Meola: B +
    3. Shot-Stopping
    • Howard: A +
    • Friedel: A
    • Keller: A -
    • Meola: B +
    4. Handling
    • Howard: A+
    • Friedel: A++
    • Keller: A
    • Meola: B +
    5. Leadership
    • Howard: A
    • Friedel: A -
    • Keller: A +
    • Meola: A++
    6. Physical Presence
    • Howard: A++
    • Friedel: A+
    • Keller: B
    • Meola: B -
    7. Distribution
    • Howard: B +
    • Friedel: B -
    • Keller: B -
    • Meola: C +
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Turner plays the angles on shots incredible well. There was a video floating somewhere, but his shot stopping is so strong because of the angles+his footwork/positioning at the point of striking the ball.

    So I think that is what they are referring to.

    Horvath is definitely the most loveable, so I give the breakdown an A+.
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  24. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  25. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Supporter's Shield secured. Congrats to Turner and El Bruce.
     

Share This Page