Watch list Midfielders Orange team

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    100% agree on this MF/ATT line-up.
     
    DutchFanatic repped this.
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Wijnaldum isnt starting for PSG anymore, I hope LvG seriously considers playing Koopmeiners i.p.o. Gigi
     
  3. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Great midfield indeed! Three ball-playing midfielders (Frenkie, Koop, Berghuis) could overwhelm the opponent’s defense big time. As long as they are not running into each other :whistling:

    I would prioritize Malen over Lang, at least for the time being… just because Malen’s familiarity and connection with Memphis and Gakpo (back at PSV). Bring Lang off the bench - he would do a lot wonders!
     
  4. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #329 wilson00, Sep 28, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
    I wont buy in to this unless Berghuis proves his worth vs some quality opponents. they did the same with Daley Blind . what happened ?In between when it comes to Berghuis, one thing that has to be kept at the back of the mind is , he is somebody that needs to be brought into the game or be a focal point. At feyenoord, Advocaat did the same and looks Ten Haag is trying to do the same by shifting him at CAM at Ajax. this could well change in NT and I can also see this changing when Lang comes on board. you have to look here in context to both, his workload around the current players in Ajax and to the up shift which is usually a requisite in NT especially against more component players.its obvious he will thrive vs teams like Lativa and Gibraltar but then you dont wanna gauge him in soft schedules to later finding out in crucial stages or going into big games that he is can not step out of his comfort zone. it will be waste us usally and back to square 1 again. the dortmund game will be good game to gauge him. they have good midfield. or in Second round when they go up against more comptent teams.

    its worth a shot given CAM Position is up for grabs. there is also Til who is in a resurgence and with good lungs as well.
     
  5. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    #330 Jpows, Sep 28, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
    It goes without saying that you can have your doubts, however, the most important thing is that he’s showing consistency in that spot both in the Eredivisie and the CL. Sporting are Portuguese Champions, Besiktas are Turkish champions, it’s not like he’s only playing against Go Ahead Eagles.

    Whatever happened to Daley Blind has no bearing on what happens to Berghuis. Different players and different people entirely. Furthermore, the narrative you’ve laid out about Berghuis isn’t evident in how he’s been playing. He’s just been delivering, prolific both in scoring and assisting. Not other Dutch AM comes close in terms of the goal/assist combo. Simple as.

    I’ve already spoken about my view on Til. He scores goals, I’ll give him that. However, a CAM has to also be able to create and give assists. Berghuis has like 8 assists. Til has 0. With that being said I’d take Til over Luuk de Jong. Lmao.
     
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  6. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #331 wilson00, Sep 28, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
    lets not forget he was in the same boat at Feyenoord with both goals and asissts. yes I have some doubts which is again based on the games I saw him in vs Spain and Mexico. (high tempo games). In one way matches its very hard to gauage a player and thats why I said Dortmund would a good match, they are on the same par as Ajax. if he is consistent enough vs big teams and doesnt fade away, the position is all his.

    I also would like to see what sort of changes Lang bring to team when he comes on board.
     
  7. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    Was he a CAM in any of those games? Doubtful. The position we’re discussing is CAM. Difficult to judge him based on a RM/RW position/performance within the constraints of this premise.

    Ever since he moved to the CAM position he’s been smashing it. No other Dutch (C)AM comes close. The facts are there for everyone to see.

    Ten Hag said he was his motm today. He’s been getting a lot of those lately playing on that position. He even benched Klaassen. What else is there to say?

    Nothing is a certainty for the future, that’s the case for every player, however, as things stand, Berghuis deserves a chance on the CAM position. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
  8. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #333 wilson00, Sep 28, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
    not disputing it. but you dont wanna invest now and find later it was not worth it.
     
  9. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    As opposed to investing in who though? Who would be better to invest in right now on that position?
     
  10. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    like I said on top, I would like to see what Lang brings to the team and where he starts. he is a runner and he likes to keep the ball at feet. this is could well deprive Berghuis of possession. this is a common feature at Club brugge who don't play with a recognized CAM. Scenario only. (sneijder and vaart)
     
  11. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    I don’t follow that logic. I can see Lang and Berghuis functioning well together. Time will tell.
     
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  12. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    agree
     
  13. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    #338 Jpows, Oct 15, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
    Albeit still quite young and still able to turn his career around, Ihattaren is perpetuating the ruin of his own career. He is yet again in a clinch with his club, this time it’s Sampdoria. He came in unfit and it seems that they still cannot get him to where he needs to be. More than likely this is also due to Ihattaren’s lack of input as he seems to be unhappy at his club.

    Apparently he’s been spending a lot of time with acquaintances in Monte Carlo and Milan. Seems Sampdoria are ready to part ways with him after he hasn’t played a single minute yet for said club.

    Seems he also wants a change of agent. What a mess. Surely Ihattaren was part of the club selection process and no one forced him to sign a contract with Juve including the knowledge of being loaned to Sampdoria.

    He’s on a fast-track to becoming the next Aissati. Such a shame. Source: NOS Sport.
     
  14. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  16. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This is what I was afraid of. Telegraaf says he's frequently spotted at nightclubs.
    Thats usually code for alcohol/drugs/women....etc. Allegedly of course.

    Read: https://archive.vn/Q3bsB
     
  17. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member+

    Apr 5, 2005
    It is sad to hear about Ihattaren. I hope he can get help to turn his career around.

    For matches vs team like Latvia and Gibraltar I don't mind to have FDJ drop back and then Klaassen and Wijnaldum up front. However I don't think this will work against strong teams (Spain, Italy, England, Germany....). It is possible that LVG may put in De Roon in the back and push FDJ up front (which mean 1 of Klaassen or Wijnaldum on the bench) or he may switch to 5-3-2.

    Wijnaldum came off the bench for the last 30 min 2 days ago. It will be likely the same in 2 days when PSG play RB Leipzig. On the other hand, Koop started for Atalanta in 4-1 win vs Empoli. If this keep up, LVG may want to think about giving Gravenberch or Koop in the line up and push FDJ up instead of starting Wijnaldum.
     
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  18. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    For all of the Berguis at CAM doubters, I hope you watched the masterclass given by Ajax today vs Dortmund where Berghuis put in some performance. He’s being lauded by fans and pundits alike. So threatening, penetrating, making intelligent runs, creative and effective in giving the final ball.

    With how good Ajax was today, the finishing is still a point of concern. They could have easily been up at least 6/7-0. Berghuis should have at least 2 assists.

    Again I say, Berghuis at CAM is a whole other beast than at RW. Hope van Gaal watched the game today.
     
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  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Berghuis best runs tonight were along the right-wing though
     
  20. DutchFanatic

    DutchFanatic Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Dec 23, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Man, what a wonderful game this must have been. I had to miss it and I am so soooo bummed about that!

    I am still also so bummed we lost out on Mazraoui for Oranje.

    But sticking more to the topic... Do you guys think Berghuis and Ziyech would have played well together? Imagine our current Netherlands team with Berghuis as CAM and then Ziyech on the right (and Mazraoui at RB). Imagine the creativity!
     
  21. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I will disagree. This is what I saw.No influence on the game at all. First major intervention came on the 28' when he sprung the ball wide from close range. Was easily dispossesed in duals. Would just be running for most part of the game

    Was linking up as mentioned, so to with the assists but like I said couldnt dictate like . Bellingham and Brandt.
     
  22. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Would have prefered Dest.
     
  23. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    #348 Jpows, Oct 20, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
    You’d be in the vast minority to disagree, and the facts are there for everyone to see. He most definitely wasn’t “just running around for most part of the game” in the way you’re trying to put it. Most players run around for most part of the game as it’s impossible to create something every minute of the game. You run to stretch the field, to be open/give options for a pass, to get in behind the defenders etc for the majority of the game…

    With that being said, it’s your prerogative. To each their own.

    Funny you should mention Bellingham and Brandt who did absolutely nothing as far as influence on the game goes bar one shot (Bellingham). Seems to me it’s just a personal thing you have with Berghuis. He was rated way higher than those two and was one of the higher rated players for Ajax.

    All I can say is, if he continues in this form, van Gaal won’t be able to keep getting around him at that position for the NT. Time will tell.
     
  24. Jpows

    Jpows Member+

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    I should note that Berghuis is far from being my favorite player in any position. I’m just speaking within the constraints of the limited options available for the NT in that position.

    He’s the best option and his production and work-rate has been undeniable ever since ten Hag made the position switch. In the games that really matter Klaassen keeps getting benched for him. Let’s see who ten Hag picks for the game vs PSV.

    My dream CAM for the NT would have been Ihattaren if he would have continued developing the way he was.
     
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  25. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

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