WCQ - The +/- Standings

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by FirstStar, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018


    Just ran across this thread (didn't realize it existed - I had been updating the CONCACAF qualifying thread with the same thing). Thanks!!!
     
    wixson7, Winoman and TimB4Last repped this.
  2. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Post doesn’t understand the thread.
     
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  3. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. Must be new around here.
     
  4. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shouldn't Jamaica be credited for the win at Honduras? Assuming I understand this right, they'd still be even because they matched our result.
     
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  5. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From everything I have seen so far, after 14 games, Mexico, USA, and Canada will make up the top 3. Panama will get 4th. I know it's early, but everything is pointing that way. Canada has the next 2 games at home and is in a great position.
     
    Guinho repped this.
  6. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    #131 Ball Chucking Hack, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
    oops. Thanks. yes.We have a common opponent, but not a game that determines a point difference.

    1) Mexico -3 (aES -2, aPa -1)
    2) Canada even (no common opponents yet)
    2) Jamaica even (even)
    4) El Salvador +2 (aHo +2)
    5) Panama +3 (hCR +2, +1 aES)
    5) Costa Rica +3 (hJa +2, aHo +2, aPa-1)
    7) Honduras +5 (h Ja +3, hCR+2)
     
  7. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    After Round 7 (including movement):

    Mexico +1 - drops a point in a loss away @ USA

    USA -1 - holds steady win a win at home v Mexico

    Canada -2 - holds steady with a win at home v Costa Rica

    Panama -2 - gains two points with a win away @ Honduras

    Jamaica -5 - holds steady with a draw away @ El Salvador

    Costa Rica -7 - drops a point with a loss away @ Canada

    El Salvador -11 - drops 2 points in a draw at home v Jamaica

    Honduras -12
    - drops 3 points in a loss at home v Panama

    In Round 8 we have:

    Jamaica v USA
    Panama v El Salvador
    Costa Rica v Honduras
    Canada v Mexico

    For reference, the so-called 'official' standings:

    14 USA
    14 Mexico
    13 Canada
    11 Panama
    6 Costa Rica
    6 Jamaica
    6 El Salvador
    3 Honduras
     
  8. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting that this metric still tells us some things about the teams- especially that ELS really shit the bed in the easier half of their schedule and JAM has done much better.

    having turned halfway, though, this list will quickly grow to be less informative.
     
  9. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Panama Honduras game yesterday might have been the defining game in the 4th place race so far. Until this week I thought Jamaica was getting that spot but now I think Panama
     
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  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, barring any heroics, this should be the US, Mexico, Canada, and Panama race.

    Panama keeps hanging in there. They’re probably the best coached team in the region because they’re one of the weakest on paper.

    We need to put some distance between us and Panama, because I don’t want to qualify the “hard way”.
     
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  11. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man I was so hoping Hondo would hold on against Panama. That would have created some real separation between 3d and 4th spots. That said, this illustrates how important last night's win was. While we only held serve, we did so against probably the toughest opponent we'll face.

    It also underscores the importance of next game v Jamaica. If we can win we'll be well ahead of the WHDR formula, and therefore in great position to qualify (since WHDR is a formula that would comfortably qualify a team). Draw is fine, esp bc it would cost Jamaica two points. Loss is troublesome but not disastrous.
     
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  12. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Happily we have a home game against Panama that will be effectively a six-pointer. We win that, we will have gotten the separation we need.
     
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  13. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Way I see it, I'm going to assume we beat Panama at home for the sake of this argument.

    Panama must get more than three points more than whatever we get up until our match on Matchday 13:

    US:
    @ JAM
    vs SLV
    @ CAN
    vs HON
    @MEX

    PAN:
    vs SLV
    @ CRC
    vs JAM
    @ MEX
    vs HON

    I am circling Matchday 13 to be the one where we clinch automatic qualification.
     
  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Panama hosts Canada the last game of qualifying. The way things are going that might be a game with World Cup qualification on the line.
     
  15. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    After Round 8 (including movement):

    Mexico 0 - drops another point in a loss away @ Canada

    USA -1 - holds steady win a draw away @ Jamaica

    Canada -2 - holds steady with a win at home v Mexico

    Panama -2 - holds steady with a win at home v El Salvador

    Jamaica -7 - drops 2 points in a draw at home v USA

    Costa Rica -7 - holds steady with a win at home v Honduras

    El Salvador -12 - drops a point with a loss away @ Panama

    Honduras -13
    - drops a point with a loss away @ Costa Rica

    The current table, unadjusted:

    16 Canada
    15 USA
    14 Mexico
    14 Panama
    9 Costa Rica
    7 Jamaica
    6 El Salvador
    3 Honduras

    Six games left:

    Mexico 4 at home, 2 away
    USA 3/3
    Canada 2/4
    Panama 3/3
    Jamaica 4/2
    Costa Rica 3/3
    El Salvador 2/4
    Honduras
     
  16. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Last night had the absolute worst combination of results for US qualifying. I was really hoping to be able to qualify (effectively, if not mathematically) in the next window. At this point, we would need 9 points in the next window to do that, and even that wouldn't quite do it since Panama keeps pulling out results.. Since we haven't swept a window yet, that doesn't seem likely. Seven would be great. Six basically leaves us status quo, staring down the barrel of a must-wind game with Panama.
     
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  17. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not quite. We didn't lose, and based on how we played, we totally could have.

    It is a bummer that this is not lining up to be a relaxed cruise to WCQ like in 05 or 13. We're going to have to fight for it more than in those years. But if it comes down to a must-win at home v Panama I like our chances. Even during the putrescent 2018 WCQ cycle, we eviscerated the Canaleros 4-0 at home.
     
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  18. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    You are correct, that would have been worse. I was hoping Panama would drop points, or failing that, Canada would. Even Costa Rica winning was the worst outcome for that game, mathematically, although perhaps it helps us strategically by motivating CR more for their game with Panama.
     
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  19. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean Panama also has a tricky window next time, away to Mexico and Costa Rica, and home against Jamaica. It's not crazy that they could come out of that window with only 1 point.

    I think our goal for next window should be 7 points, but that Canada game is going to be a tricky one because we're going to have to rotate somewhat for it and the two home games are much higher priority.
     
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  20. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Some observations:

    This year's odd, unbalanced schedule has helped this thread maintain its relevance. Mexico and Jamaica have four more home games; Canada and El Salvador have just two more home games. The rest have a balanced three/three.

    Where the teams have played twice already:

    USA 4 of 6 points against Jamaica
    Canada 4/6 Mexico
    Costa Rica 4/6 Honduras
    Panama 3/6 El Salvador

    The top four - common destinations:

    @ Jamaica (a team that has evolved greatly)

    Panama won, Canada drew, USA drew, Mexico - next game

    @ El Salvador

    USA drew, Panama lost, Mexico won, Canada - coming in February

    @ Honduras

    USA won, Panama won, Canada next up, Mexico near the end

    @ Costa Rica

    Mexico won, Panama, Canada & USA yet to play

    Among themselves:

    @ Canada

    Panama lost, Mexico lost, USA - coming

    @ Mexico

    Canada drew, Panama, USA - both to come

    @ Panama

    USA lost, Mexico drew, Canada - final match

    @ USA

    Canada drew, Mexico lost, Panama - next-to-last match
     
  21. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    You have a lot more confidence in Jamaica on the road than I do. I mean, I'm hoping for that, but I am not counting on them taking points off Panama.
     
  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think with Jamaica, they are very hit or miss. They definitely have more talent than Panama, but Panama is just way better coached team. But guys like Antonio and Bailey can make something happen out of nothing.
     
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  23. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    US vs the Ocho +/-:

    Mex -3 (aPan-1, aES-2)
    Canada even
    Jamaica +3
    (h/a +3)
    Panama +3 (+2 hMex, +2 hCR, +1 aES, -2 aJa)
    El Salvador +5 (hMex +2, +2 hJam)
    Honduras +5 (+2hCR, +3 hJam)
    Costa Rica +6 (+3 hMex, +2 hJam, +2 aHon, -1 aPan)
     
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  24. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I think the point is Jamaica is dangerous. They could get blown out or get a tie in Panama and we wouldn't be surprised by either result.
     
  25. bnjamin10

    bnjamin10 Member

    Charlotte FC
    Jun 4, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see Roughly 10 pts left on the schedule.

    The next break is easily the biggest one, need to get 7 points to avoid needing points @Mexico/@CR.

    I think Panama in March is going to be the World Cup (butt) clenching game.
    -------
    LIkely L - @Mexico, @CR (San Jose is cursed, I don't care how bad they are or if they are eliminated already)

    Likely Draw - @CANADA (Don't think Edmonton in January is an option, so might be kind of a fake away game.)

    Likely Win - vs El Salvador, vs Honduras, vs Panama
    ----
    Interested to see what sort of crowds/atmosphere Canada gets in Central America. Azteca was pretty tame when they played.
     

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