Building an Azzurri squad for 2022

End of half. We should be two or three goals up. Instead, we are on shaky ground with a slim one-goal lead, and you can't have any confidence in us getting three points. The attack looks nowhere nearly as good with Dybala off, and we haven't showed any ability to protect a lead in a long time.

 

As for thinking that Daniel Maldini will make the Azzurra, that's a stretch in my opinion. Sure, I was thrilled that he scored for Milan and played decently... just happy for his father, who is one of my all-time idols... I cheered for that goal he scored and was really glad about it... but even though he's still young and may develop more, he doesn't look to me to be anywhere near having the world-class skills his father possessed.

I suspect that it's rather because of his last name that he is given a chance with Milan's first team. He is decent but nothing extraordinary, and I suspect that someone with the same level of skills but not named Maldini would be on loan somewhere rather than starting for the first team.

Out of gratitude for Paolo, it doesn't upset me that Daniel is getting chances... but I don't see him as anything special. Maybe I'm wrong and he will get better, but I'm way more excited about someone like Sandro Tonali than about Daniel Maldini.

 

Daniel Maldini is turning 20 in 2 weeks.

Having a last name like his will help his chances of being picked.

Whether they play different positions or not, living up to his dad's fame and name is another story.

For sure he will be selected to one of Italy's youth teams.

It remains to be seen if he will be on Italy’s top team but the WC is still a year away!

He will turn 21 next year and many things can happen between now and then.

If he continues to score as he did in his first start yesterday, being picked is only a given.

UEFA had a list of 26 for the Euros. Not sure is FIFA will increase their number of 23 players for the WC tournament.

If they increase the roster limit, adding youth national team players will be inevitable.

 

Serie A sucks right now for italian players 64/220 italian players starting this weekend. Like come on, the bottom dwellers like Salernatina, Venezia, Speiza are barely starting italians. Italian coaches are scared to play young italian players. Sure Italy just won the euros but if clubs are only starting 3 italian players who is going to develop from this

 

I agree but we have a good run of class players right now at Midfield and attack with exception of a legit striker. The Italians that ARE playing are really good imo.

Also I'm liking some of the yonger players that are getting run. Rovella, Raspadori (altough he has struggled at the start of the season) Zaniolo, Cambiaso, Calafiori, Tonali...ther's a lot to look forward to in the next few years.

I do agree though about the bottom feeding teams not fielding Italians. Totally don't understand that at all unless the price for young Italian players or home grow guys is simply too much.

 

There is a player in Serie B, who may be the answer to our woeful options at CF. Lorenzo Lucca—6’7” with good feet and a very good finisher. Plays for Pisa and and has started the season off with something like 5 goals in 6 games. He recently received his second call up by Nicolato for the U21 side and many are wondering how he is in Serie B and not with a Serie A side. Buffon has spoken highly of him and I wouldn’t be surprised if Mancini gives him a call up once WC qualification is secured.

 

I have just heard about him. He turned 21 last month so is a little bit of a late-bloomer, but obviously still young enough to potentially grow into a great player.

He has been called for this month's under 21 qualifying games so it will be interesting to see how well he does there.

 

Juve still features several Italian players. A remarkable exception.

 

I'm looking forward to Italy vs. Spain this Wednesday, and hopefully on Sunday we'll be playing the winners of France vs. Belgium. Can't wait!

 

64 out of 220 is a troubling statistic. I too have noticed that bottom dwellers are buying cheap foreign players rather than developing youth talent. There are exceptions of course, but there are players in Serie B that are much better than what I've seen on Salernitana, Spezia, and Venezia.

Speaking of Serie B, I've been watching some Pisa games to see Lorenzo Lucca. I wouldn't call him a late bloomer. He just turned 21 a few days ago. Luca Toni remember didn't start blossoming until he was around 24-25.

Lucca reminds me a bit of Luca. He's a little taller (6'6 vs 6'4 for Toni). But, he's quite skilled for a big man. This is a guy who can take free kicks for Pisa at that size. He's obviously great in the air, but I really like his finishing. On one goal this year, he flew into the box on a cross and redirected it with the outside of his foot for the goal. Very Toni-like.

I think there is a real bias in football against tall players. First off, they tend to be very lanky when young and it takes a while for their bodies and muscle tone to catch up with their height. Secondly, they are often perceived as uncoordinated or not fast enough.

I see it differently. If you have skill (which Lucca does), that size creates massive match-up problems in the box. Toni scored 300 Serie A goals because of those mismatches. I'm not saying Lucca is Toni, but he's definitely worth keeping an eye on.

 

An interesting observation about taller players, I hadn't thought about it like that before.

I hope Lucca is better than Toni. Toni - while very effective at club level - never really made the step up to being a top quality striker for the national team.

 

i agree 100%. there is no reason a team like Udinese (who has been one of the worst offenders lately) to have only 5 italians on their whole squad.. 3 of which are GKs.

even though numbers of italians are lower at the moment... think back to 4 or 5 years ago. Italians are becoming the protagonists in Serie A again. You have Immobile, Pellegrini, Destro in the top 5 for scoring. Barella the assist leader.

 

Yes. And I'd add that Tonali, Calabria, and Kean just to quote a few examples, are very good young Italian players who have a bright future.

But the league including the bottom feeders not developing enough young Italian players is a concern for the long term viability of the Squadra Azzurra. Venezia for example went out to the United States to bring in two players, Tanner Tessman, and Gianluca Busio. Sure, the latter is a dual citizen, but lost to the Azzurra anyway because he has already played for the senior United States National Team in official FIFA matches (he was a member of the USMNT that played the recent CONCACAF Gold Cup, their official continental cup).

While I'm also a dual citizen (Italian and American) and I try my best to support American soccer, I certainly doubt that we have in America young players as good as many Italian young players, generally speaking, so why did Venezia need to go out of their way to bring in two Americans, when most likely there are Serie B young Italian players who are much better?

When I'm wearing my American hat I'm happy for Busio who will be getting an opportunity to learn and develop and later, further help the USMNT, but when I'm wearing my Italian hat I lament that he is occupying the spot of some other Italian player who potentially could develop as a member of the Azzurra.

 

No thread on this, I'm surprised. Anyone even notice the new kit? The only major difference is no collar. Pointless change.

 

Level on points with the Swiss, and they closed the goal differential to 2 as well.
Next match at the Olimpico is crucial.
https://football-italia.net/stadio-olimpico-confirmed-for-italy-vs-switzerland/

 

I really hope that the missed penalty by Jorginho against Switzerland will not be the moment that has doomed our qualification to Qatar, especially because I love Jorginho. Hopefully it won't come to that and we'll simply win in Rome.

But here is what is the tiebreaker situation, if we draw:

We are still two goals ahead of Switzerland. If we draw and we both win our last matches, we'd have to win ours by a goal difference not inferior by more than one goal, to Switzerland's difference. Say, we win 1-0 and Switzerland wins 2-0, we advance. Then the next tiebreaker is goals scored. In goals scored we have 2 goals ahead of them too, but if we need to go to this criterion, it would necessarily mean that we'd be even there, as well. Then next is away goals in matches between the two teams; when we played there, it was 0-0 so any draw with goals in Rome will get us behind.

So we have to root for:
1. A win against Switzerland, obviously. We'd advance regardless of the last night results.
2. If a draw, a 0-0 one would be more favorable to other tie breakers but wouldn't see us through yet.
3. If a draw by 1-1 or more, we need to beat Northern Ireland, and if Switzerland beats Bulgaria too, we need to beat Northern Ireland by a difference that is not inferior by more than 1 goal to Switzerland's difference in their win against Bulgaria.
4. If a draw by 0-0 then we can afford a goal difference in the last journey, inferior to Switzerland's by up to 2 goals, to go to then next criterion. If it is 2, then it goes to the fair play criterion; which is about yellow and red cards; I have no idea if we're ahead or behind Switzerland in that regard. If it's 3 then Switzerland advances.
5. If we need to go to fair play and we are equal there, then it's drawing of lots.

Of course if we both lose our last matches (unlikely) we'd again need to lose by a goal difference not bigger by more than 1, than Switzerland's loss.

Of course in the last night if we win and they draw we advance, or if we draw and they lose.

Here is how the fair play criterion is scored for each player incident:

• first yellow card: minus 1 point
• indirect red card (second yellow card): minus 3 points
• direct red card: minus 4 points
• yellow card and then direct red card: minus 5 points

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Like you said, Bulgaria, Northern Ireland, and Lithuania are now all three eliminated from Qatar. Neither one can place first or second in our group.

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In addition to Qatar (hosts) and Germany (who qualified yesterday), Denmark qualified today.

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The playoffs consist of 3 groups of 4 teams; with a single-game semifinal and a single-game final; the three winners advance to Qatar.

If the qualifiers ended today, here are the teams that would be headed to it:

Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Scotland, Norway, Croatia, Poland, Romania, Austria (via Nations League) and Wales (via Nations League).

So, if we fail to qualify directly, we'd be replacing Switzerland there, and the above would be the likely opponents.

This of course can still change, for a few teams. For example, Norway may still be first in their group, which would bring the Netherlands down. Croatia could bring Russia down. Spain could bring Sweden down. Portugal could bring Serbia down. Ukraine and Poland could bring down respectively France and England but it's unlikely.

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Again, if the qualifiers ended today, these are the ten teams that would qualify directly:

Serbia, Sweden, Italy (on goal differential), France, Belgium, Denmark (already clinched), the Netherlands, Russia, England, and Germany (already clinched).

 

No, since it goes by overall goal difference, then Switzerland can still win the group if we lose the last match and they win by enough goals. Not likely, but still possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification

In league format, the ranking of teams in each group is based on the following criteria (regulations Articles 20.4 and 20.6):[13]

1. Points (3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 0 points for a loss)
2. Overall goal difference
3. Overall goals scored
4. Points in matches between tied teams
5. Goal difference in matches between tied teams
6. Goals scored in matches between tied teams
7. Away goals scored in matches between tied teams (if the tie is only between two teams in home-and-away league format)
8. Fair play points
   • first yellow card: minus 1 point
   • indirect red card (second yellow card): minus 3 points
   • direct red card: minus 4 points
   • yellow card and direct red card: minus 5 points
9. Drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee

 

Oh right, you are correct.

 

Time to put stock into Lorenzo Lucca. No doubt he will be in Serie A by January.

 

https://www.chiesaditotti.com/azzur...ez-italy-national-team-brazil-qatar-2022-roma

I think its a great addition and much needed depth in the position. We have to start looking past WC 2022 to which players like Acerbi, Bonucci, Chellieni will be gone.

And to anyone who says enough of taking Brazilians, let me remind you the current state of the big national teams across europe at the moment in regards to how many players are not really of their countries origin. Its just a reality of today's day and age.

 

no thank you. i don't believe he has any blood connections to Italy like Jorginho, Emerson Palmieri and Toloi do at least.

Bastoni is 22, Mancini is 25, Lovato is 21, Romagnoli is 26. I'm certain we can find a combination of home grown CB's between these 4 or someone else who might pop up.

Who knows, maybe Romagnoli or someone else has a Barzagli like late bloom. Barzagli won the WC in 2006 at 25 years old while playing at Palermo. Then went to Wolfsburg and wasn't on the radar. Juve signed him at 29 years old for $300,000 pounds and then went on to win 8 scudetti and was a rock for Juve / Italia.

 

This is a worrying trend lately developed from the Cristiano Ronaldo effect where clubs shifted from scouting Serie B for talented homegrowns to going abroad and getting foreigners instead. A proof of that is in the beginning of 2017 Serie A season, the season before Ronaldo arrived, Serie A had 258 Italians on their roster. It then went to 240 Italians on the first Ronaldo year and eventually to 223 Italians right now. Hopefully now that he’s gone, the clubs don’t have that urgency to get instantly better and instead focus on the long term, develpment of players, hopefully homegrown, like they were doing couple years before he arrived.

Another factor that we gotta consider is the appointment of coaches of these teams. A great example of that is Spezia. I knew they would be left with little Italian representation on their team
as soon as they appoint Thiago Motta as their coach. During Vincezo Italiano, Spezia had almost 50/50 italians to foreigners split. Now they are mostly foreigners; they didnt even re-sign Matteo Ricci who had a great campaign for them last year and let go of Vignali who I thought was untouchable because he grew up at the club. Good thing for us is bottom feeder teams who mostly rely on foreigners, they play poorly, their coaches get sacked, and eventually gets relegated. Look at Parma last year or compare the first Crotone team in Serie A and the year they got relegated or Genoa back in the Gasperini day, qualified for Europe with tons of Italians, got rid of most them, and bought players like Piatti and other garbage and eventually relegated. The common dominator, foreigners, foreigners, foreigners.

On the optimistic spectrum of this debate there are couple things to point out. The first thing is that Serie B teams are more welcoming to young homegrown players and have made Serie C their number one place to look for players. That’s how we got Lorenzo Lucca, Alessio Zerbin at Frosinone, Emanuel Valeri at Cremona, and so on. The second thing is that there is a striker revolution going on in Serie B with Lorenzo Lucca, Samuele Mulattieri, and not far behind Lorenzo Colombo. It’s gonna be interesting to see as the season progresses if these three stays as Serie B’s top 5 goal scorer. The last thing is the influx of young Italians to our top 7/8 teams in the past few years. Players like Pessina, Tonali, Locatelli, Chiesa, Bastoni, Dimarco, Lovato made the jump from midtable/bottom feeders to our European teams. We need more of this. We need players like Maggiore, Orsolini, S. Bastoni, Verde, and others to make similar jump.

 

I'm not happy about this. Jorginho, Emerson, and Toloi are all children or grandchildren of Italians (that is, they are Italians by blood or jus sanguinis), so I have no problem whatsoever with the fact that they are Italian citizens and play for the Italian national team. Ibañez however has no ties of blood with Italy. He was naturalized Italian via an administrative procedure; the child of a Brazilian father and an Uruguayan mother, neither one with Italian ancestors. While I do feel that Jorginho, Emerson, and Toloi are Italian, I do not feel that Ibañez is Italian for the sake of a national team (I don't question his civil life right to acquire Italian citizenship via naturalization; that's fine, but I'd like to see national team players being Italian due to more than a mere administrative procedure).

It's not any xenophobia. I love Brazil. Just look at my username and my signature. I lived there. I speak the language. My wife is Brazilian. My children have Brazilian citizenship (as well as Italian and American citizenships).

I just think that if this is the way to go now, the idea of a national team will be lost. If say, Barcelona and Real Madrid naturalized all their foreign players and they were all called up to Spain's national team, then it would hardly be SPAIN's national team any longer.

We already have this effect in club soccer. I wouldn't want to see the same effect in national team soccer. This might trigger an attempt by the more powerful and richer countries to naturalize a bunch of foreign soccer stars to field a worthy "national" team.

Can you imagine if the United Arab Emirates paid top money to people like Messi, Neymar, Jorginho, Lewandowski, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Haaland, Salah, etc., and suddenly they were all UAE citizens and played for their national team? What the hell?

Even weirder is the fact that Mancini at one point spoke against this kind of thing...

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/mancini-opposes-foreign-players-azzurri/

... and now he is all happy to consider a Uruguayan-Brazilian player who happened to earn Italian citizen administratively with no blood ties with Italy?

No, I definitely don't like it.

 

No thank you to Ibanez...especially with Mancini yet to make an impact with Azzurri. That would be a slap in the face to an actual Italian.