Post-match: USA VS Costa Rica 10/13/21

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by EXALIFTIN, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm still not sure an attack based on verticality works against a packed defense unless you cross the ball a lot better than we do.

    1-2s in the box, players cutting diagonally, not straight, to the back line, and then cutting the ball back, outside shots, good crosses, and winning free kicks and corners and being good at them, all works better than "verticality".

    However, perhaps I define verticality different than GGG.
     
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  2. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Frankie Hedjuk is probably still match fit and would win the burp test.
     
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  3. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me, there's going to be an interesting tactical choice in the future.

    Do we play Zimmerman and Brooks against teams that are really good in the air, and Richards and Robinson against teams that are quick and tricky in their dribbling?

    Or is there a better combination of the 4 against all comers?

    I'm baffled however, at the fact that Zimmerman was apparently 5th choice before Ream got hurt....
     
  4. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I don't think it is just bad crosses, but a bad strategy to rely so much on crosses when you have no real target in the box. Pepi is pretty tall and lanky, but he gets pushed out of the way trying to fight for balls in the air. I expect this to improve as he physically matures but that's not exactly helpful right now. The wingers aren't going to roll in and win the ball out of the air, especially tiny guys like Pulisic, Aaronson and Arriola. Maybe if you play Hoppe he gets in there, Weah may be able to occasionally. But, you basically only have McKennie coming in from midfield as any real aerial danger during the run of play. And when that's the case you don't build your strategy around crossing into the box. Or you're just hitting rolling crosses all day that get easily cleared out. It's a big part of the reason we look good moving through midfield and in our approach play only to fizzle out when we get the ball in space in a wide area and our guys look into the box to see a whole lot of nothing. You want to base everything on going wide and crossing, play PeFok or Dike, go with two strikers, do anything other than play a team of guys who are mediocre to poor in the air and think a crossing strategy is the way to go.
     
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  5. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    I think you’re oversimplifying the situation. Our younger players are better in general, but it’s not as if they’re all better. Sargent hasn’t succeeded in plenty of opportunities. Dike wasn’t 100% during the gold cup, but he also wasn’t that great. I’d like to see Hoppe be given a chance at striker, and Dike be called back in since he’s healthy, but it’s not as if Zardes has been clearly surpassed.

    and Weah has been pretty inconsistent with the national team. He has a higher floor than Arriola, but he hasn’t really been better for the national team. Playing in Ligue 1 doesn’t automatically make him better for the national team.

    Busio underwhelmed in the gold cup too. He is better than Acosta in some areas, but I think both are limited, and are only going to be successful in certain situations.

    the bottom line to me is that we have some very talented players, but not a lot of depth. There’s a big drop off from Aaronson and Adams and Pepi to Weah and Arriola and Sargent and Busio. Over time, I think the younger guys will improve, but they’re not there yet. What dest, Aaronson, Reyna, and Pepi are doing is very impressive, and shouldn’t be taken for granted.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't know why this window would convince anyone of that.

    He was excellent against Jamaica, and while he wasn't good against Panama, he was far from the Top 5 problems. While he's not more talented than Tim Weah, out played better than him in that game (though that's not saying much).

    He shouldn't have been slated to start 3 games, but I'm not seeing why this window drops him on anyone's depth chart, much less Berhalter's.

    Pulisic and Reyna are clearly ahead of him. I think Aaronson is as well, but he's younger and I expect that's the reason for the slight difference in intended minutes.

    Weah's clearly not, but I suspect he will overtake him; Berhalter just brings a lot of these younger and sometimes injury prone players along more slowly. Jordan Morris is coming back soon as well, and he brings a lot of what Arriola brings but with better final ball work.
     
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  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arriola's a minutes eater against lesser competition and a late-game sub to pressure defenders. Weah brings a lot of those qualities with more skill and finishing ability. The issue with Weah is staying healthy.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It would not be a post game thread after a convincing win without someone proclaiming the opposition horrifically bad.

    I have to agree, really, so I'm not picking on you, but it's like clockwork.
     
  9. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then Zimmerman was captain in one of the matches. It's very weird how he rates players.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    They have Allan Cruz, Randall Leal, Julio Cascante and even Marvin Loria in MLS, all of whom are legitimately better than what they rolled out there (and Cruz and Leal are young). Leal is legit, not a great player or a game changer, but a strong MLS winger.

    Of course there's Ugalde in the City system and I'm sure they have some other youngsters where I don't watch regularly.

    I have NO idea how you run out that team against our team in a Game 3 of a window. But they almost got a point.
     
  11. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he did a bunch of times in the gold cup too...needs to tighten that up.
     
  12. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's unfortunate for Paul but fortunate for the team he pulled up lame. Weah ticks all the boxes over Arriola except motor, and I don't think anyone finds him lacking in that department.
    When he scores the gw(o)g, that seals the deal for him over Arriola, even in Berhalter's mind, I feel.
    So I disagree completely that Weah is 'clearly not' ahead of Arriola. I would lean the other way more than anything. Not just in my mind, that was already decided, but in Berhalter's mind now.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I mean sure, but he played really well in one game, and poorly, but better than most of his teammates in the other. Your post was acting like he was straight trash all window.

    The bigger question marks that come up for me are Bello, who really hurt us, Lletget, who is no longer bringing what he usually brings, and a big question mark on "Can Kellyn Acosta be trusted" because we don't have a good alternative.

    Arriola did not have a bad window.
     
  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Perhaps. I was merely saying that Arriola was slated to start over Weah.

    I think Arriola brings better runs and more positional discipline than Weah. People tried to excuse Timo in the Panama game, but he was all over the place. That works well when you are dominating -- he ranged a lot against Costa Rica as well. But it gets really problematic when you are struggling to put crap together.

    But Weah is going to be the better player even if he isn't the better player for every single situation right now. Much like with a lot of people that folks determine to be Berhalter's pets, I don't think Arriola is magically ordained. Look at Lletget's minutes in WCQ after people claimed Berhalter wouldn't ever not start him.
     
  15. VictoryWePredict4Thee

    VictoryWePredict4Thee BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 4, 2019
    Whats GGG's obsession with Arriola?
     
  16. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know Paul doesn't make that goal that Weah had... but does he hustle back faster to stop the backheel from Ruiz that eventually became the Ticos goal?
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I mean, I don't know that those kind of runs are excluded in the possibilities here. Berhalter's definitely using it as a spacing/stretching proxy, and he's definitely using it as a way to fend off and feed the press something that doesn't completely give away a gameplan.

    But here's another question: are we going to see a full bunker in World Cup qualifying? Who's bunkering? Who's left to bunker? Honduras at home maybe?

    We've seen defensive structures, but most teams seem to think pressing us is smarter (and they may be right). I've seen no one send out almost no one in attack.

    I'm not saying we won't necessarily need a different approach, but I find it interesting no one is really taking that path.
     
  18. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes it was useful to waste 30 seconds off the clock.
     
  19. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Seems crazy to me that 2006 and 2010 had so many people debuting for qualifying. I feel like there was way more carryover those cycles from previous cycles compared to what we’ve got this time around.

    98 makes sense that it would be first given that there was no qualifying in 94. I wonder if they aren’t counting 90 as it was a way different format.

    Can’t imagine this cycle won’t have the most by the time it’s over. Just off the top of my head I expect Scally, Vines, Dike, and Cannon to see time at some point and that puts us at 29 right there.
     
  20. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #470 adam tash, Oct 14, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
    good questions.

    busio has already made leaps and bounds from a few months in Serie A.... same for aaronson, though not quite to the same extent.....it raises a player's level to play at a higher level.

    I dont necessarily think acosta or lletget are inherently bad but they are playing in a league which doesnt require their greatness. its not that they could never have been good enough...its that right now they arent...and if they stay in their comfort zones of MLS, they likely never will be. in lletgets case he is too slow in different ways to play the way the team needs to.

    i dont think that playing in MLS is some kind of permanent stain or something. but look at what happened when jozy and bradley came back to MLS....their level dropped noticably....Dempsey and Donvovan maintained...but still probably couldve been even better in the EPL, etc

    im a fan of pepi and robinson. but they cant stay in MLS longterm. or they will inevitably plateau. beating cr is one thing...but they wont be ready for brazil etc if they stay, imo.

    which needs to be the goal by the way....this team can be as good as anyone.

    i dont think ALL MLS players are worse than ALL euro...but the worst players in GGGs rotation are indeed almost all from MLS. i am referencing players like roldan, arriola, yuiell, trapp, lletget, acosta zardes.....the weak links are resoundingly from MLS and it begs A LOT of questions as to why.....

    the fringe of the team should be the other euro players left out in the cold.

    i wanna see how haji wright compares to zardes

    i wanna see if sabbi is better than arriola

    it seems ggg is hellbent on having a good deal of MLSers in his team for whatever reason....and it is a problem...its the reason for the Panama loss, for example.
     
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  21. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If my post implied that Arriola should never see the field again, that was a mistake on my part. I just think his actual value on the team is lower than what Berhalter rates him. My value of him is a similar way to how Berhalter used Zardes last night (which was an excellent sub - I really thought Berhalter nailed his subs last night).

    To answer your other questions, I think we'll be more or less in agreement.
    • Bello (and I'll add Moore) - Scally is a better option. I just don't think Bello's ready yet. I hope he is at some point in the future.
    • Lletget - he's taken a big step backward, particularly after watching Busio in the Gold Cup, with Venezia, and last night. I just feel like Busio does what Lletget should do, but better.
    • Acosta - I think the best approach is to run some sort of double pivot with Acosta being the more defensive of the double 6s. You then have McKennie or Musah as the more advanced of the double pivot. I realize McKennie has some positional issues, but I just don't see a better alternative because Tyler Adams is the most irreplaceable player on this roster.
     
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  22. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    The ball should have never touched Zardes’ head, period.
     
  23. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think players like sabbi, wright, booth, scally, cowell, sonora, cappis, EPB, etc etc are out there and am not convinced that GGG knows how to eval that talent accurately....clearly after the panama game, he should be questioned on that front.

    there are also a bunch of MLSers that are better than the ones GGG has used.....

    I think winning the GC and Nations league with 2 different rosters makes it irrefutable that there is a TON of depth...

    i think you are misinterpreting the depth based on who and how ggg does things and his callups etc

    simply because gggs favored backups fell flat does not prove that there isnt depth!

    theres a ton of depth
     
  24. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Arriola starting with Musah and Dest on the right side was thoroughly dominant against Jamaica. I don’t fault Berhalter for going back to that because Arriola was one of the reasons why it worked so well.
     
  25. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's also kind of like roller derby...
     
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