Enlighten me on how I don’t understand what happened on that goal. Because I watched it multiple times and saw that Steffen fudged it. But I’m welcome to be wrong if you say that it wasn’t as bad as it definitely appeared to me.
Shot stopping is WAY more important than distribution for me, and I think it should be prioritized that way by Berhalter and the staff. And really anyone who follows soccer. Steffen makes too many costly mistakes that lead to goals. And Turner has saved a lot of goals in the past two WCQ windows that I honestly believe Steffen would have conceded. Hopefully Berhalter seeing that quick goal go in past a rusty Steffen last night will more firmly entrench Turner as his #1. And hopefully he won't rotate out his in-form keeper in similar spots in the future.
But the ball wasn’t even hit with pace. ...I just watched it again. And watched the ball just gently bounce past Steffen. At some point, you have to say, dude, shuffle your mother ********ing feet and get to the ball.
By the way, if Steffen is our #2 keeper.....................we likely have the best #2 keeper in the region. So there's that. Did people see the dropoff from Navas to Costa Rica's #2? I'm not a fan of Mexico's goalkeeping situation (which is one reason they aggressively recruited David Ochoa. Roll of the dice on their part).
Navas stays on and we likely don't win that game. I'd rather have the best starting goalie than the best backup.
I think... again... if it’s in your box... don’t make excuses, get to the ball... especially a ball that’s not hit with pace.
Perhaps... but that was such a hard driven shot in the tightest of angles. I could see that one beating more keepers than not.
That it was from the tightest of angles is exactly why a better goalie gets to it. He did hit it with a lot of pace, which made it difficult. But, that isn't an angle you want to see guys giving up goals from.
I find some of these comments hilarious. "dude its in your box, don't make excuses get the ball" AH did you see the only goal in the Panama match. Turner entrenched on his line. "shot stopping is WAY more important" Put Turner in their last night and see how much our control and attack fell off. I wish I could find the post I made on this subject awhile back. Explained in some detail why shot stopping is the most important but why many are way underrating how important other factors are.
I havent seen anybody make excuses. I am just telling you it wasn't some huge blunder. He waited for the second attacker and wasn't able to react when the attacker dummied it. Not nearly as easy of play as you guys are making it out to be. I also think you are missing you the phrase "if it is in your box" that somebody else has already pointed out.
It isnt just distribution. Steffen cleaned up behind the defenders all game. Nobody who is in the game prioritizes shot stopping at the expense of everything else. How is Turner in form? He just had a really rough game where his mistake led to us losing?
I feel this post demonstrates your lack of understanding. I also realize that if I get you to change your mind it will be a first in my 15+ years on BigSoccer. You're dug in, come what may. Don't worry, you're far from alone. Still, it might interest you to know that the position of goalkeeping - at least at the higher levels* - has progressed from your antiquated and oversimplified 'keep the ball out of your own net,' to 'how can a goalkeeper best help his team to win (not lose) the game.' Obviously, a large, significant part of that is shot-stopping, but it's hard to stop a shot that is not taken. Much of modern goalkeeping is minimizing risk and maximizing reward. And yes, sometimes that can go very wrong and look terrible. That's why decision-making is so critical. And to follow your illustration, let's assume such things were measurable and the statistics showed that playing goalkeeper in a reckless, race-out-of-your-box style prevented a goal every three games, but cost you a goal every ten games. You would still focus on the goals against ("WTF was he thinking?") because those goals are evidence for your point of view, and you can't see/measure the goals prevented (absent saves). ++++++++++++ * This is also evident by watching any serious youth team, at least by U12, where young GKs are working their foot skills - with both feet - their distribution, their role as a pivot/safety valve in maintaining possession, etc.
I am partial towards Turner over Steffen just given the lack of playing time for Steffen, but the Athletic article that’s been posted before does a pretty good job of laying out some of these dynamics. https://theathletic.com/2875610/202...s-no-1-goalkeeper/?source=user_shared_article
I am convinced that Turner’s preference among fans is due in part to the fact he seems like an MLS fan-type who you’d watch a game with at a hipster bar. Steffen is an alpha male athlete type…the kind hipsters are afraid of.
You are projecting your own insecurities. It's embarrassing. None of us give an F about anything but the USMNT winning.
Oh Lord... how dare I stand in your presence? Call me antiquated... but I don’t want Messi in goal. I want someone who keeps points off the board.
There are many that are hyping Turner who either don't understand goalkeeping or have some motive beyond what is best for the USMNT.
You know what’s hilarious... I have to mock a poster in an attempt to be taken seriously. Look... if you disagree, you disagree. That’s fine. But I try not to go around pointing the finger at every person on here that I think is a dumbass to make myself feel better. Trust me... there are plenty of dudes that I could be like, you think what? God, you’re dumb. But I don’t spend my time on here to insult people. And I’m not talking about just you... there’s a trend here. And a statement of, more or less, “oh, you don’t understand... it’s above your comprehension to understand” just makes me assume that a person has to belittle others when they realize they don’t know what the hell that they’re talking about. I’ve been watching this damn sport religiously for over 30 years. I like to think that I know what the main duty of a goalkeeper is. This isn’t rocket science. It’s actually pretty damn simple. Keep the ball out of the net. Yes, there’s tons of factors that go into that. But at the end of the day, it comes down to a good goalkeeper is a good shot stopper, he’s a leader from the back - helping the defense keep its shape, he can clear his lines, and he aggressively controls what’s comes into his territory. Most of all - he’s consistent. That’s it. Steffen didn’t do that. I’m not saying Turner is the second coming of Jesus or Peter Schmeichel. But he’s a lot less mistake prone than Turner and he’s a much better shot stopper. I don’t care if Steffen can whistle Dixie out of his ass or whatever impresses dudes other than shot stopping... But he’s not controlling his box, not keeping the ball out of the net, he makes me nervous as I can possibly be with his risky passing, and he’s almost guaranteed to make at least one dumb mistake a game. That’s not good enough. Perhaps, I can clarify that he’s still my number 2. But saying Steffen should be our number one after the Costa Rica game just seems like fan boyism to me.
I mean I think it’s unfair to act as if this is a clear cut decision either way. Turner is a really good shot stopper, probably the most important quality for a goalkeeper to have. Steffen is generally better at everything else but has the added issue that he’s not playing week in and week out and is not as sharp as he would otherwise be. I for one wonder if his tendency to make one stupid mistake per game would be better if he was getting regular playing time. There’s arguments in favor of both, but it shouldn’t be a MLS vs. Europe thing and it’s something that is a close question either way. I could understand why someone might prefer Turner and I could understand why someone would prefer Steffen. I also generally think it could be more of an opponent specific thing. Against opponents where we don’t expected to control much of the ball, Turner might be better. And against opponents where we do, it might be that Steffen is better.