The Woke Madness Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by YankBastard, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Why is this 'woke' madness?
    (WTF does 'woke' mean, in this context?)

    Seriously, what difference does it make to you or anyone?

    It just seems to me like "okay" and then nothing. Of course, I do not care about comics, not being a 7 year old. And if I had a 7 year old son, it would not bother me, either. I would probably suggest the kid read something better than comics, but a bisexual character would not matter in the least.

    This seems like any awful minor non-issue and certainly not worthy of its own thread.
     
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  2. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's more LGTBQ comics characters than most people think - none of the big ones that everyone knows (hence the publicity stunt factor of making Superman bi, for a version of Superman that isn't Clark Kent) and nobody who's making it into the movies on the Marvel side.

    Example: in the Young Avengers - a sort of next-generation version of the Avengers, with characters patterned on well known Avengers, there are two characters, Hulkling (no relation to the Hulk, but rather a Kree-Skrull hybrid, which is kind of ironic considering that the Kree and Skrulls have been at war for a very long time) and Wiccan (one of the children of mutant Wanda Maximoff / The Scarlet Witch and the biosynthezoid Vision), both of whom present as male (neither is fully human, and Skrulls are shape-shifters who may not have defined genders the same way we do), who are in a relationship. Another character, Speed (Wiccan's twin, the other kid from Wanda and Vision) is shown as bisexual. But of course nobody has heard of these characters (the twins made an appearance as children on the recent Disney+ TV show "Wandavision", which is probably the first time any non-comics reader would have heard of them), so there's no headline news, unlike this Superman story.
     
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  3. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    #28 rslfanboy, Oct 13, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    There’s a word for your wife: TERF. No disrespect.

    I have sympathy for your viewpoint, and lived half my life in that mindset.

    However, as @phedre44 alluded to, what we have been taught as a binary male/female man/woman is false. I know it is difficult to wrap one’s head around, but even chromosomes, while most often do correlate, they do not themselves determine sex, and even less so one’s innate gender identity.

    This isnt a situation like a man crying that he’ll never get to experience the miracle of pregnancy and birth. Trans people are among the most discriminated and shunned in our society, largely due to religious dogmas and our innate reluctance to embrace uncertainty or admit we could be wrong about something (especially something so basic). Honestly, I can not imagine why anyone would “choose” to be trans and the resultant abuse, unless the alternative is misery and potential murder or suicide.

    Maybe consider that someone with gender dismorphia feels just as strongly as you do about gender and sex, but opposite. They risk everything, and you only risk feeling bad for being called out when making tasteless jokes and casually disregarding their existence.

    Sorry about your feelings and outrage resultant from an incorrect belief in binary sex and gender, but I’m still pretty traumatized watching my beloved gay uncle waste away from HIV AIDS in the 80s while no one, outside of our family, gave a ******** and tried to pretend he didn’t exist.
     
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  4. phedre44

    phedre44 Member

    SKC
    Apr 1, 2008
    Kansas
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is more accurate and inclusive in certain situations, unnecessary in others, depending on context, and I don't go around correcting other people if they say "pregnant women". Has anyone ever actually scolded you for saying "pregnant women", or are you just getting offended that some people somewhere out in the (twitter) world have suggested that saying "pregnant people" is more inclusive and accurate?

    We can approach language from a prescriptivist view, or a descriptivist view. To a prescriptivist, there are rules of language which have existed for a long time, and we should continue to follow those rules, because they are rules and they should be followed. Prescriptivists are dumb because language has always changed, and will continue to change, and getting all tetchy about these changes making language "inoperative" isn't going to stop language from changing.

    To a descriptivist, language exists to describe the world as it is, and so language changing as human understanding of the world changes is expected and normal. Since trans people do, in fact, exist, adapting language to account for them makes sense. You are trying to linguistically shove them back into the closet, which is kind of a dick move.

    People who are scoffing at the wokeness of "pregnant people" are doing so because they prefer the dumbed down idea that men have penises and women have vaginas, and that's that, and sex equals gender, and there are never any complications or differences. They can feel whatever feelings they want about that, but their feelings don't make them right. Trans people exist, all over the world, in the present day and in the past, and they will exist in the future.

    Holy shit, no. The ability to become pregnant is not the fundamental essence of womanhood. And how is a trans man getting pregnant taking anything away from me??? Pregnancy is for people with uteruses who want to get pregnant. Most of those people are women, but a small percentage of them are men. That is reality. Again, people who are scoffing at "wokeness" can feel whatever they want to feel, but their feelings don't poof trans men out of existence.
     
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  5. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Or equal representation and “ inclusiveness.”
     
  6. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Alright! So what’s the win/loss record on this?
     
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  7. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    3 pts on the road, 1 point at home?
     
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  8. raza_rebel

    raza_rebel Member+

    Dec 11, 2000
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    #33 raza_rebel, Oct 13, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    It has been over a decade since I have been in a comic shop or read comics but wasn't Iceman and Mystique bisexual? There is also Batwoman. And the Deadpool/Spiderman bromance which implies more depending on the writers involved. But they are written for laughs, and I avoided Spiderman comics for reasons I don't even remember.

    Also, America Chavez is bisexual and a member of the Young Avengers.

    Edit - I should have googled before writing but Iceman was gay and Mystique was fluid depending on the writers. Considering my first comics was Uncanny X-Men, it's unfortunate that my memory has faded that much.

    Edit - I completely blanked on Wonder Woman, who comes from Themiscrya and is an LGBTQ icon. Not the same, but felt it needed to be pointed out.
     
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  9. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    thanks for that. she's nothing of the goddamn sort,

    fyi I had a mod delete a post of mine simply because I said his wife must find him difficult to deal with. I'll bet a zillion dollars they do zero about you taking a shot at mine.
     
  10. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I think you're missing my point completely.

    of course language morphs. always has, always will. there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

    but in this case, imo it's counter-productive: if the aim is to nudge people to think differently and see others differently, it fails straight out of the box simply because it sounds - frankly - dumb.

    it doesn't matter how well-intended the aims of wokeness are, if the "unwashed masses" react by simply rolling their eyes and/or laugh -- what's been accomplished? it seems to me that it may well have the exact opposite effect of the one intended and could reinforce perceptions that trans people as weird and not to be taken seriously.

    this is (kinda, sorta) like "defund the police". whether anyone likes it or not, the Reps have planted that seed in millions of brains, and in doing so have essentially preempted any kind of rational discussion of what might be done to improve policing. this may be intellectually lazy (or in this case duplicitous) but ... it works.
     
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  11. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    The no disrespect part is honest.

    Is she not excluding trans people? You said she’s a radical feminist.

    Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

    That doesn’t mean I think she’s a JK Rowling fan girl. I’m just saying, that’s the term. That’s what it is.

    I did not mean it as an insult.
     
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  12. phedre44

    phedre44 Member

    SKC
    Apr 1, 2008
    Kansas
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is so f*cking obnoxious. You stated in your initial post that people who can become pregnant are women. You are wrong. Your wife is wrong. The "unwashed masses" are wrong. You are trying to insist that this person:
    [​IMG]

    is a woman.

    And I guess this person:
    [​IMG]

    is a man.

    That's what you are trying to convince me of when you insist that only women can become pregnant. It's infinitely more ridiculous and "dumb" than the phrase "pregnant people."
     
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  13. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, it is not. This not political ideology or political language to try and convince people to think or behave a certain way. To be crude, this is understanding how saying "negro" is incorrect. It is understanding that "faq" is derogatory (and hate speech). It is simply using the correct terminology. And so you know I am not saying you are an idiot in any way, I use man/woman and male/female incorrectly more than I probably realize.
     
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  14. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    redacted
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    I have questions.
     
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  15. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
  16. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Y'all just let any ol' troll yank y'all' chain dese days
     
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  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    What powers does SuperTrump have?

    trump-superman.jpg
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't remember this episode of The Big Bang Theory.

    But then, I don't remember any episodes of The Big Bang Theory.

    On the thread topic, I'll say this. There are times when wokeness is over the top and annoying.

    But the folks who are overwoke aren't oppressing anyone. Sure, sometimes wokeness is kind of earnestly silly. Roll your eyes and get over, and then focus your energy on racists, homophobes, and fascists. They're evil and they want to hurt people and they're the problem.
     
  19. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are they frequent?
     
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  20. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    This is very much my attitude as well. When someone complains that lesbian midget left-handed albinos don't get equal treatment, I roll my eyes. Then I think about how shitty lesbian midget left-handed albinos have been treated for thousands of years. I'd rather fall on the side of the lesbian midget left-handed albinos than the people who want to hurt lesbian midget left-handed albinos.

    Then I put on a Suzanne Vega record.
     
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  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Paging Tom Nichols.
     
  22. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Co-sign.
     
  23. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Suzanne Vega is left handed?
     
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  24. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank You
    You know - if the background culture has just treated black, brown, Native, LGBTQ?+ Women as human beings, deserving of basic respect and human rights a couple of centuries ago - y'all wouldn't be in this predicament of having to pretend to be victims and defend patently toxic and cruel people every day
     
  25. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lisa Loeb for me
     

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