This team has had the same offensive problems — centering on midfield player selection, but also player selection in other spots — for two years. You’re right about results, and Gregg deserves great credit for creating a strong defensive team. But his persistent problems offensively (which fall on him and the staff; they are basic, repeated errors) are plainly evident. They are unnecessary given our talent pool, and give us no room for error even with a stout defense. We keep hoping the kind of absurd lineup and substitution errors we saw agains Panama will stop. But they won’t.
Yes, I think the balance for this group is too defensive, and we would gain more in the attack than we lose in defense if we had more offensive power in the midfield. But the flaw that jumps out to me is that the off the ball movement (especially excluding the front 3) emphasizes being in good defensive position to regain the ball if we lose it way too much. Our spacing in the attack isn't dangerous enough, in my opinion, because players are told to stay connected even in possession, not to exploit wide open space with runs. And my belief is that GB teaches that because any player making a run into wide open space isn't available to counter press if we lose the ball. Not only do I think that's just a bad soccer decision, that what we lose is more than what we gain unless we're playing a world elite team, it's also butt ugly to watch.
The problem is that his players selection and "style" he shoehorned the USMNT into seemed to work against weak teams and in matches that really had little meaning but, when it really matters and against teams that "care" and in the most important set of matches the US has played in years the stupidity and weakness and negative play just does not work. We are now, for the first time in Berhalter's tenure, facing teams that care and are fielding the best teams they can and we are playing matches that will set a lot of the future for the next several years. We have survived simply because none of the teams we have played and none of the "tournaments" we have played in (yes we won the last two tournaments we played but the were both mainly on US fields and against, mostly, teams that were way under staffed. When we are forced into adversity we fold like an old cheep sheets and we only play well in spurts, short spurts at that. We cannot play first halves and that means that Greg Berhalter does not prepare the team well and, when his random subs don't work, we also struggle in second halves. We should have trouble on the road in CONCACAF but that should be it. We should have trouble but we should not look like rejects from a local rec league. In fact the team we have played that we looked the best against is Jamaica and they are severely depleted and not any good to start with. We looked horrible at home against Canada. We looked even worse in our first qualifier against El Salvador at home. Therefore I believe we are NOT playing even decently at this time. Even in the 4-1 win at Honduras we looked very much like we should loose in the first half until the substitution dartboard at the half happened to select some decent subs. I am wondering what the great Berhalter will roll out for the next home match. It is entirely possible that we could see the same crappy play we have seen thus far except for about 40-50 minutes of decent soccer. He makes some excuses but the fact that we can play well at times shows me that we have a bad coach. My real fear is that we will stumble into the World Cup and draw a weak group and get out of the group and most people will call it a success andwe will have Greg Berhalter for another four+ years. I do not think we can recover from coaching this bad for that long. It might take many years to just get back to where we were under Bradley. Right now the rest of CONCACAF wants to play the US. They have no fear of us regardless of where the matches get played but we fear them except, maybe, for Jamaica. One more thing: Greg Berhalter has siad he was playing for a draw. That is just about the dumbest thing I have heard out of any coach's mouth. The ONLY time playing for a draw works is when both teams are in on it like with the third group match for the Women in the last Olympics where the US and Australia played to a 0-0 draw without any real attempt to win by either side as a draw assured that both teams advance out of the group. I did not like that match but at least it made sense. Playing for a draw away in CONCACAF is just wrong and shows that Greg Berhalter has no soccer awareness or just ignores it when he gets things set. Yes, you generally accept a draw on the road in WC qualifying BUT you should never ever play for the draw. There are just too many ways things can go totally FUBAR away in CONCACAF.
Except he didn't say he was playing for a draw - and explicitly clarified that (this was discussed a page or two back in this thread). Bruce Arena I believe used to say this all the time - win at home, tie on the road.
yeah he was playing for a win....even though it was obvious as soon as the lineup came out that that scenario was extremely unlikely without another secnd half sub-fest that worked wonders. he said as the game wore on and got later and later then it was clear they would be lucky with a draw or something to that effect. ggg follows bruce arena way too hard, imo. bruce was from a different era....the program needs a better vision than what worked decades ago.
If you’re making a wish list for available coaches it should start and stop with Conte. He’s proven at both club and national level. His players all love him and his stint would be short with the US so it wouldn’t rule him out of any big jobs for long.
The lineup was extremely similar to what we started the Finals against Mexico - given the short schedule, it seems to me his plan was to survive the onslaught and then steal it in the second half. I personally think people overrate tactics here - just as they overrate a European resume. What matters more to tactics is that our 2 best guys Reyna and Pulisic aren't fit, haven't played well (hero ball) when they were fit and haven't played together. Some of our European central defenders have been poor - Brooks (would we have beaten Canada had someone else started?) and McKenzie. We don't apparently have a reliable backup to Adams. Dest can't defend or stay fit. Weah seems like he should be better. And we haven't had a guy like Pepi that we can rely on to score like this. If we're honest, starting Pepi in an away game was something a lot of coaches don't do. This doesn't mean Gregg has been great either. He's made some terrible choices (Honduras starting lineup) and we can debate about what some of his bad choices were (I would have started Hoppe and it concerns me that Hoppe was a dick on the sideline and Gregg may be holding a grudge). We desperately want Concacaf to be a breeze so we can feel superior to these tiny countries that can beat us. Time and time again, because we have guys like Brooks playing in the Bundesliga and playing well, we assume that means we can just show up. Never mind that Panama seemed more likely to beat Mexico at home and have lost 2 qualifiers at home since 2005 (I think). Never mind that repeatedly guys like Brooks - for whatever reason (travel? grueling schedules? Bruce Arena's issue with dual nationals?) - don't show up with the kind of fire we need in games like this. Never mind that MLS has helped us, but it has also helped the region as a whole to improve. Never mind that age and experience matter and we aren't quite where we need to be. Never mind that qualifying is a weird animal that only comes around every 4 years and that means everything to every team... It's pretty much basic to what people love about sports - the more motivated underdog that plays together can punch above their weight. Ordinarily, we Americans love this kind of David vs. Goliath story (see Miracle on Ice) unless we are the goliath of course. I don't love Gregg as a coach - but I think it's foolish not to see that he has strengths and weaknesses. He recruits very well which is extremely important. He tries stuff which is a weakness and a strength. He gets results that we've struggled to get in recent years. He has us playing very well defensively. He's capable of getting starting lineups pretty spot on (Jamaica) and can dump guys like Brooks - which suggests to me he also learns. But any analysis of his coaching has to take in a host of factors and the notion that any other coach is the solution to a bunch of these issues is misguided if you ask me. There is no savior out there. BTW - can you imagine how the collective head here would have exploded if we had hired the Women's National team coach? Herdman's arguably been the best coach in qualifying thus far no?
The issue is more how terrible we have looked for most of qualifying. That's the concern we have with GB as coach. Anomalies happen, (hello Germany losing to North Macedonia) but we are well outside of the anomalies stage for bad games. It's becoming normal and this group is far too talented to have this many stretches of looking out of their depth. Gregg is the problem. Not maximizing talent, organizing properly, putting the right lineups out etc.... It's consistent and a massive liability going forward. If you put Pepi, Pulisic, Reyna, Adams, Mckennie, Dest, Aaaronson, and ARob out against most anyone in Concacaf you should expect a positive result regardless of the manager. When we start having to slot in other puzzle pieces and the squad looks lost, that comes down to Gregg. He's simply the wrong person for the job.
And you are making my point - that's a pretty simplistic take. Pepi just committed to us, McKennie went on walkabout, Dest Reyna Pulisic haven't played great and have been injured, ARob was injured - that leaves Aaronson who only recently has been breaking out and is not Landon Donovan. Arena and Bradley lead us through years of bunker ball. Klinsmann tried to break us out of our shell and often we were screwed as a result. Looking terrible is kinda how qualifying games go - given how much is at stake.
Lots of bloggers and vloggers have been harping on GB's midfield/offensive/personnel errors for a long time. But post-Panama is the first time in GB's tenure when he has lost those few bloggers/vloogers and pundits who were his defenders or who otherwise urged patience--including Bretos, Gomez, and Wynalda. As far as I am aware, Lalas and Sebastian Salazar are the only ones left on the ship, and the latter is a diehard El Tri fan. Now just about everyone sees the rigidity and dedication to his own brilliance blinding him to sensible easy simple solutions.
I most assuredly did not make your point. When he doesn't have the pieces (pepi being new, i admit that) the team looks lost and devoid of objective or direction. That's the issue. It's not like this is a club team rotating the full squad for a cup match where you have 11 guys on the pitch that haven't been playing. All these guys are playing competitive matches week in and week out. They are in shape and in form. And yet, they go out for 90 minutes against Panama and look like they are just getting into preseason. That comes down to managerial choices. Be they the formation, actual starters, or what the idea is as far as possession, counter, etc... The team has looked absolute crap for the majority of qualifying against not great competition. So unless that was your point, i did not make yours.
The over-thinking, over-complicating criticism has been explained so many times here, there and everywhere, I can't believe you haven't heard it. If you don't buy it, fine. But if I heard 1 person predict offensive ineptitude before the game and after the lineup was announced, I heard 100. To many it was obvious, and it played out as they predicted.
Greg still hasn't realized that we don't have the talent of Manchester City. This obsession of playing out of the back requires the players comfortable with doing so. It is much easier to do so when coaches can hand pick players from around the globe to build that system around. Plus we can't afford the occasional blunder that comes with that system, when we can't cant put the ball in the back of the net.....
More of the same. Go with a proven international coach, not a club one. It's apples and oranges coaching clubs vs a country.. We don't need another MLS retread. I am not sure what Guus Hiddick is doing these days. Perhaps Roberto Martinez will be available before the world cup?
With a win- he will stay. This is clear. But what I want to see is an Alpha Dog 1st half in which we pin CR's ass back deep in their own half and just totally blitzkrieg them with dangerous chances and shots on goal to a minimum 1-0 but preferred 2-0 lead. This would demonstrate to me that Gregg CAN learn, CAN adjust, and CAN inspire his troops....and tonight, he has the tools (players) to do this and are facing a tired CR side relying on much older legs, and he'll have a rabid home crowd. Technically, it makes a helluva lot of sense to feed off that energy early (1st half), vs. more of the 'bore-ball 0-0' tactics which suck the life out of energetic crowds and get them nervous. This team (seemingly) does not handle 'nervous' well. High pressure, high intensity, "punch them in the mouth", flood the zone football in the 1st half. Get up on CR early and force CR to commit numbers forward, and take risks in the 2nd half that we can exploit to put the game away. If Gregg can't do this suggestion (even if he wins), then for me he is no longer a viable option even if he continues as coach. Because it would mean he is tactically inept, too slow to learn and he too easily forgets his basic mistakes (like his substitution patterns). He has had more than a year to 'jell' this side around his tactics, and we've shown no progress overall. We are inept and anemic in our 1st halves- this needs to end. We play scared and out-of-synch for too long of matches- this need to end. The most damning criticism for a coach is when your team plays BELOW the sum of its parts. That is where we stand currently. Let's see a ton of 'Eye of the Tiger' this first half and our players should play like it is the most important 1st half of their lives. Leave it all on the field. Gregg simply can not coach like this is 'same old, same old' this 1st half and expect a change in performance. He can't act like we have 'plenty of time' in this game. That would be malfeasance.
Lots of that type of individual floating around in all walks of life. You find it mostly among the younger set whose egos have been reinforced, biases too easily confirmed but whose shortcomings are off-limits. It's the "everyone gets a trophy" idea that, in the end, creates mediocrity rather than aptitude. Nothing gets your butt in gear like a painful but truthful employment evaluation. Yet we live in a perpetual snowflake storm where straight talk is deemed offensive while critical thinking skills melt away.
This is wrong, pointless and naively optimistic. None of that makes a difference to the real question: is he a GOOD coach?
I agree with you there. What Wynalda has to say means nothing. He always been a hypocritical player/commentator. I remembering see him sitting bench for Miami Fusion- middle, end career and you could hear him yelling* at players for not hustling and undermining his coach when he was one of the worst examples I've ever seen of a player not giving his all on the pitch (and bitching too much) when he was with NE & Miami and even SJ towards the end of that stay. He was constantly upset that he wasn't playing and carped non-stopped publicly at the time, but his performances were mostly putrid at the time. He did rally for 1 good season at Chicago eventually. Talented for sure, but something changed for him mentally pretty early on in his career that erased that all talent. So no respect for anything he says now, because he would not listen to himself either if he was still on the pitch. * Fusion crowds were pretty weak, especially afternoon games in FTL. You could stand by the fence and hear everything.
I didn't use this as a compliment. I used it is a negative sense. He should not have such a gap in getting his points across. It's not like Jorgi Loew after 10 years.... Yes in one sense, he has had plenty time to show 'performance'. But on the other hand, his team definitely should NOT be tired of listening to him at this point.
You are seizing on a few individuals in a huge chorus to denigrate the song. I do t think much of Wynalda either. I mentioned he and Bretons because they were just about the last of the pundits who HADN'T pointed the finger of blame at GB. Now they have
So far your arguments seem to be - Max Bretos and Wynalda don't like him, and lots of fans don't like him. QED What was the obvious solution to the offensive ineptitude? I get that he tinkers too much sometimes (Honduras) and slow to make changes sometimes (Canada) - but these discussions are where nuance and context go to die. We were arguably a Brooks disaster from beating Canada and a Zardes own goal from getting a result away to Panama. Just because lots of people think we should be better than this, doesn't mean it's true. Until we have multiple guys that play at Adams, Reyna and Pulisic's level, and multiple guys that can put the ball in the back of the net like Pepi - we are going to continue to struggle with our identity and against the so-called minnows of Concacaf, especially when we can't field those three (and others). You want top tactical savvy international coaches to line up to coach our team, we're going to need to have a better player pool. Musah and Pepi may be incredibly important players for more than the next decade - if you are going to blame everything on Berhalter, it seems you have to give him some credit or at least, at minimum admit that Berhalter as coach didn't deter them from signing up - and they watch the same games that Max Bretos does. I'm not an apologist for Berhalter, I'm an apologist for historical perspective, nuance, balance, clear headed evaluation of our talent pool, the importance of continuity in coaching and players, recognizing that diamond in the rough coaches are hard to identify and hire (not one person here would have hired Herdman), recognizing what an inferior complex we have about ALL our American coaches including Bradley and Arena, and for recognizing that we blame the coach in part because it's the only thing we can actually change as fans so we can kid ourselves that we are better than we are.
1 - i had the feeling ggg would think he can continue to tank first halves and then turn it up with subs in perpetuity....but thats far from the case. its boneheaded to throwaway a first half....especially if you are trying to tire out an opponnent with guys like lletget and acosta who dont do too much running. he put a non pressing lineup out to press in humid conditions...its boneheaded. 2 - its the coach's job to get the best out of players...to have them mesh and play better than the sum of their parts - good coaches consistently do this. so, to have a team full of players that underperforming and failing to thrive ...reflects very pporly on ggg. its not solely on the players especially since it applies to so many of the players! he is the 1 thing all of these players have in common with each other! 3- yes he has strengths - some very good ones.....but on the whole, imo, its simply not enough. 4 - just any coach wouldnt be better than him. there are a lot of coaches out there who could be worse. there are alos many coaches who dont have his failings. there are few coaches that dont have a fatal flaw or two...but there are indeed some. the bar needs to be raised. if and when the usmnt gets its belicheck or poppovich or whomever...things will change forever for this team. gg aint it.