Indeed. Starting an inexperienced CB in a WCQer is different than doing so further up the field. Much more risk. But the nature of this ocho with three games in quick succession means we're going to do it. I can see a young CB like Richards being "CONCACAF'D" in one of these games. Its fun to say that a player like Richards plays games at a much higher level each week in the Bundesliga. That's true. But the level of dark arts in CONCACAF is different. On the other hand, the other teams are going to have to do it too. And the reserve CB we're bringing in is a Bundesliga starter. What is Panama's? We saw Jamaica starting a CB this past week who literally doesn't have a club right now. The USMNT literally used Donovan Pines in the Gold Cup. He must be our 13th or 14th string CB. And we won. He wasn't even one of the U23s for Olympic qualifying (Glad, Kessler, Pineda were on that team.) CB is one position where we'll just be fine. I just wish we had a more established #1 CB pairing at this point. I guess I'd go with Brooks/Robinson right now, but that evolves on a monthly basis.
Richards is not a better match up with Jamaican strong forward than Zimmerman. But there were some times when our attackers making a good run in the middle, I wish he or Brooks were on the field who can give that killer pass. Pros and cons.
Gregg doesnt understand midfield so he thinks it is ok to make mistakes there whereas mistakes in the back line are fatal.
I think this thread is on the verge of becoming obsolete. It used to be about finding our best XI and getting them on the field in a formation that works best for them. Now we have enough talent that -- when/if healthy -- we can begin to bring horses for courses. Odds are, we are going to leave a really talented player or two off our Qatar roster if we qualify. Hell, I am already at the point where I can't create a Best XI without leaving out someone I really, really want to be in the lineup.
Kind of wild that in an everyone healthy scenario one of Musah, McKennie, or Aaronson would need to sit. Don't remember ever being in a situation where we wouldn't have room for a field player of that caliber. Everyone healthy never seems to happen though. CB is interesting right now too. I really have no idea what our best pairing is and it's not for lack of good options.
I guess one way of doing the best xi at this stage is to say we've got great players at the back and front and midfield is a conundrum. I'm watching 2nd time at the moment and it's a clown car watching McKennie/Adams tyring to get things out of the back for us at the 66' or so mark with Musah hiding. Arriola finally shows up and takes it off the foot of a Jamaican who has intercepted an Adams pass and is about to head to goal. If that's against any top 8 team who we are likely to meet in R16,; we're down a goal.
Crazy thought…what if they didn’t have to? What if…we made Pulisic a super sub? I’m not advocating, just throwing it out there. He gets injured a lot and the defense fouls him a ton. I still think he’s our best offensive player but perhaps giving him 30 minutes a game running at tired defenses will get the most out of him and limit his muscle injuries.
I stopped doing it a while ago. We have enough talent now that the Best XI is opponent, situation and gameplan-dependent at many positions. And in many cases, is much more a tactical discussion than a talent discussion. For example, one of Musah, Reyna, Weah (or McKennie) needs to be out of the lineup. Reyna's a better overall player ... but I can see arguments based on lineup / gameplan / opponent for Weah over him at RW and Musah over him at CM. Or an argument for him at either position. And the availability of other teammates, like Dest at RB, would affect my opinion as well. I don't see the point of arguing those differences in a vacuum, unless you are arguing for a single tactical plan.
If they're playing a knock-out game today I go with ------------------Turner -Dest---Robinson--Brooks-Robinson -------------------Adams ---------Musah-------McKennie --Pulisic-------Pepi----Aaronson Brooks is probably my biggest question mark, which is pretty shocking to me given it wasn't that long ago I'd have said he was at worst our 3rd most important player. Reyna could also start depending on his form.
I anticipate people jumping down your throat for this suggestion, but it’s not such a crazy idea. Pulisic’s record of injuries is troubling and, let’s face it, he gets hacked non-stop. As we increasingly have more options for a starting 11, keeping Pulisic in wrapping styrofoam, in a hermetically sealed air bubble, doesn’t seem like such a zany proposal. Bring him on for the last 30 to run at tired legs…
The counter-argument to this, as IE mentioned a few posts above, is that some of the most talented teams do have a mostly set first XI when it matters, even though they could easily mix and match if they wanted to. For instance, just look at the starting lineups for the final four at the last World Cup in meaningful matches (i.e., anything other than the 3rd place game or the final group stage game when advancement was already assured). France started its first game with Matuidi and Giroud on the bench, but then introduced them into the lineup and made zero unforced changes in its last five meaningful games (though Matuidi had to miss one more game due to a suspension). Croatia made only one change in the 6 meaningful games they played (flipping between Brozovic and Kramaric). England only made one change in the 5 meaningful games they played (putting in Ruben Loftus Cheek for Deli Alli in one group stage game). Belgium made two unforced changes in the 5 meaningful games they played (replacing Carrasco and Mertens with Fellaini and Chadli against Brazil), and made a couple other changes due to suspension (Meunier vs France) and injury (Kompany during the group stage). In other words, the final four teams started the same 9 or 10 players when available throughout the World Cup in meaningful matches, with only one or two spots open to rotation. There are some teams out there that willingly rotate more than that, but I don't think depth and talent are generally the determining factors for that.
These are good points. Perhaps we're good enough but not quite good enough. Or perhaps we are better off picking a team and sticking with it.
I think it largely depends on the coach. Bradley and Klinsmann tended to rotate less in tournaments, unless forced by injury or fitness concerns, and their rotations often involved positions where there weren't ideal starting options to begin with. Arena, I recall, made a lot more match-specific starting lineup and formation decisions in the 2002 and 2006 World Cups, including sometimes benching fan favorites based on the perceived strengths and weaknesses of the specific opponent. I don't really know if either approach is inherently superior to the other, since all 3 managers had comparable levels of success in those competitions. The other thing I will add to that is that I'm fine basically ignoring this exercise during this qualifying campaign. The 3 game windows, with large amounts of travel, short turnarounds, some drastic differences in climate, and (for the most part) no massive disparities in talent from one opponent to the next mean that it makes much more sense to think about a 3 lineup rotation each window, rather than a single best XI. This thread will become a lot more relevant for me the closer we get to the World Cup. Maybe the home game against Mexico next window is the one other exception.
Devil’s advocate: I wonder if some of the cause of injuries is the lack of consistency with fitness. In other words, he plays so little that he gets hurt so often when he plays. To some degree, a player needs to be playing at a certain frequency to be more consistent with fitness. Furthermore, I believe Pulisic needs to round out his game. It’s good that he has in his wheelhouse to beat players with speed and agility... but if this the predominant method then he will always continue to suffer more injuries.
We are putting the cart before the horse here but I've been thinking about it myself. And if this window ends well (9 points or a good performance in a draw tonight + a win) then I personally don't see how we can assume Pulisic or Reyna deserve automatically starting next window, against Mexico. Because chemistry and familiarity matters. And if this window continues on this path - again, an assumption for now - and you have players like Aaronson and Pepi gaining ultimate understanding, and even players like Weah/Musah/ARob getting familiar with each other - I don't know how you risk that chemistry by playing a internationally cold Pulisic and Reyna against Mexico from the get go.
I like the way Eleven Bravo just builds depth charts. Eventually there's a tactical approach probably to depth charts (beat a low block/countering team, beat a superior, top 8 team etc), but that might always be a bit too convoluted, I like a simple depth chart approach: Forwards: 1. Pepi 2. Hoppe 3. Sargent 4. Pefok 5. Zardes Wing Forwards/Wingers: 1.Pulisic 2.Reyna 3.Aaronson 4.Weah 5. Hoppe 6. Arriola 7. KDLF 8. Morris 9. Roldan Central Midfielders: 8 or 10: 1.McKennie 2 Musah 3.Lletget 4. LDLT 5. Busio 6. Ledezma 6: 1.Adams 2.Musah 3. Acosta 4. Busio 5. Sands (if he can get his form back. Fullbacks: 1.Dest 2.Robinson 3.Scally 4.Moore 5. Cannon 6. Bello 7. Yedlin 8. Reynolds Centerbacks: 1.Robinson 2. Richards 3. Zimmerman 4. JAB 5. Miazga 6. McKenzie Keeper: 1.Turner 2. Horvath 3. Steffen It's kinda nuts when you realize how much depth we have, nearly everywhere. Kinda keeping one eye on the developmental trends at the youth level to make sure things don't sputter to a stop again like they did with the '90-'95 iteration, but it does look like the trend lines overall just keep pushing forward and upward. Lots of 14-17 year olds still bubbling up and the depth here alone, if injuries are at a normal rate, would keep us in good shape at nearly all the positions into WC '30. Unbelievable how much things changed essentially from 2016 to 2020. Roughly by year of the guys I kinda know. '16 Pulisic, Acosta, Arriola '17 Adams, McKennie, Horvath, Steffen '18 Weah, Sargent '19 Dest, Reyna, Cannon '20 Pefok, Aaronson, Musah, Ledezma '21 Hoppe, Pepi, KDLF, LDLT, Busio, Turner, McKenzie, Richards, Scally, Reynolds, Moore
I can actually see that the team going to Qatar will be influenced by the teams we will play in the first round there. Some of the last guys named will depend on who we will play.
I was thinking the same. But at the end of the day, I think Gregg will choose the guys he already likes and trusts over anyone who may or may not match up well against a specific opponent or two.
Every coach does. I do think some players will earn his trust over time and displace favorites right now. He's constantly changing who he plays as just this game Musah displaced Lletget whom many would have predicted as a GB untouchable. The last game it was Pepi displacing Sargent or Zardes. So today does Richards get a chance? I could see it with him partnering with either Zimmerman or Robison and then partnering with the other in the last game.
Can’t understand the logic of starting a CB who wasn’t originally called to camp over those who were.
A bit weird but after watching him totally own the airwaves I'm guessing GB wanted one of the CB's to be great in the air and Z man was the replacement for Brooks in that department. Zimmerman didn't just win headers he dispersed them way downfield every time he won one. Not sure who Panama has as a forward but if no real aerial threats then Zimmerman may sit as quick, tricky forwards trouble him just like they do Brooks and Miazga.
We really need to nail down our best roster sooner than later and quit this tinkering around. A = Alternate M = Monitor O = Out Goalkeepers 1. Matt Turner 2. Zack Steffen 3. Sean Johnson ————- A. Brad Guzan O. Ethan Horvath Right Backs 1. Sergino Dest 2. DeAndre Yedlin ————— A. Bryan Reynolds, Reggie Cannon M: Kyle Duncan, Aaron Herrera O: Shaq Moore Left Backs 1. Antonee Robinson 2. Joe Scally (needed on the left) ——————- A. Sam Vines (injured), George Bello M: Kevin Paredes, John Tolkin, DeJuan Jones O: Can’t afford to cut anyone yet Center Backs 1. Miles Robinson 2. Chris Richards 3. Walker Zimmerman 4. John Brooks (injured) ————————- A. Cameron Carter-Vickers, Matt Miazga M. Erik Palmer-Brown O: Tim Ream, Mark McKenzie, Aaron Long (injured), Henry Kessler, Donovan Pines Defensive Midfielders 1. Tyler Adams 2. Kelyn Acosta ————————- A: Gianluca Busio M: James Sands, Christian Cappis O: Jackson Yuiell Advanced Midfielders 1. Gio Reyna (injured) 2. Weston McKennie 3. Yunus Musah 4. Luca de la Torre ———————— A: Sebastian Lletget, Cristian Roldan M: Taylor Booth, Richy Ledezma (injured), Eryk Williamson (injured), Caden Clark, Julian Green, Cole Bassett, Djordje Mihailovic, Paxton Pomykal, Alan Sonora O: N/A Right/Left Winger 1. Brenden Aaronson 2. Christian Pulisic (injured) 3. Tim Weah 4. Matthew Hoppe ———————— A: Konrad de la Fuente, Paul Arriola, Niko Gioacchini M: Jordan Morris (injured), Cade Cowell, O: Chris Mueller, Jonathan Lewis Strikers 1. Ricardo Pepi 2. Jordan Pefok ——————- A: Gyasi Zardes, Daryl Dike, Jesus Ferreira, Josh Sargent M: Haji Wright O: No one can be “out” yet... but Sargent and Zardes are flirting with it. ...In short, we should ideally be playing the player closest to the top at his position. Last night, we weren’t close to that. Shaq Moore and Mark McKenzie shouldn’t even be in the picture. Lletget, Roldan, Arriola, and Zardes should be relegated to an alternate role. Acosta keeps playing like that then he’s going to find Gianluca Busio replacing him. Also, Joe Scally is going to have to take Bello’s spot on the left at the next camp. And I love Tim Weah... but this isn’t a charity. He keeps messing around, he’ll find out he’s replaceable too (but he’s still in it now).
I do find it slightly ironic the request to stop tinkering around coming from the guy who banishes players from the pool after a bad performance or two. It IS hard to nail down a roster when you desire that much player churn. That being said, not like some don't deserve it. The roster gets more and more depressing as time goes on it feels like. Lots of our depth was fools gold, and we clearly have a handful of A players who we need to rely on every game and then a bunch of ?s.