Official 2021 Nadeshiko Japan Thread [R] - なでしこジャパン（英語スレッド）

I guess for Iga it will feel unfair and I understand why. But being a good team alone doesn't qualify a club to professionalize. The men's league used to have the same problem. There were teams in the JFL that would win most games against lower end J2 teams but they couldn't enter the J league because of their financial constraints. To solve this the J league introduced J3, a league where clubs were given a set amount of time to reach the standards(minimum stadium requirements, financial stability, etc)set by the J league, while also being able to battle for promotion. But they were only able to do this because of their financial stability and because the league had grown enough to the point where one club in the lower end of the pyramid disappearing for financial reasons wouldn't effect the league too much as a whole.

I think people sometimes forget that football is still a growing sport in Japan. We aren't like some countries in Europe where football is almost embedded in daily life. Iga city and Mie prefecture unfortunately, are great examples of an area in Japan where football is just not a thing. Almost no one cares about the sport there. The only known men's team near Iga; Veertien Mie do not even play in the J league and constantly achieve about 900 spectators a game.

The WE league just started 3 weeks ago during a pandemic. They do not yet have the room to offer that helping hand to clubs that struggle financially. They just can't take these risks and have clubs go under so early on. What would that look like to young girls and their families if 20+ plus players suddenly just lose their jobs because their club just wasn't ready to professionalize? How would potential sponsors react if the league was constantly losing teams left and right due to financial reasons?

What the league needs most right now is stability. It has to prove to a VERY skeptical Japanese sporting industry that woso has a place and can be a successful and stable environment for players and businesses. They can't rush this process. It took 30 years for the J league to become what it is now.

 

I can understand the point, but that doesn't erase my frustration. But, even with that, I am sorry if I ofended anyone with my last comment.

 

I'm pretty sure no one was upset at your comment and I understand your frustration very much. It's a very unfortunate situation that Iga are in.

 

I think it is a tricky situation for the JFA no matter what they do, but I am inclined to think that it would be better to leave the WE League as a separate league. I like relegation and promotion because it creates lots of different stories to follow, but I am not convinced it actually helps raise the level of football or professionalism.

If we look at the French and Spanish leagues there are just a couple of clubs dominating with the rest just making up the numbers. At the lower end of the table there are clubs struggling to pay their players and coaches, which also have poor facilities, because they have no money. The gap between the top and the bottom is massive.

By having a closed league it is much easier to control outcomes and to help clubs that might be struggling financially. Because there is no relegation the JFA could if they wanted to, give more money to a struggling team because it will help them to get better, which is better for the league in the long run.

I personally think they should try and run it like Japanese baseball and have a draft, but I would be very surprised if they did that. I love relegation and promotion, but most sports do not have it and some of them are incredibly successful.

I do feel sorry for Iga and I imagine they will lose some of their players come season end. They might have to think about merging.

 

That's exactly the thing I fear the most

 

Poor me parent, how dare my child not get a perpetual contract with best possible social security as well as a permanent guarantee that my child's employer can never be relegated to some level unsuitable to my child.

Seriously though all of these are already solved issues. There are plenty professional leagues with relegation systems to amateur leagues. The way they tackle it is that the per league rules apply to every club that wants to join, so if a club wins promotion it has to fulfill that rule to make use of that promotion. And players' contracts are usually only for specific leagues so that they can leave or renegotiate contracts if the club relegates or promotes. I don't see why that wouldn't work with WEL right away (even if only pro forma for now as none of the NL1 clubs meet the WEL rules). If it stays closed in perpetuity a draft system would also be very nice. But as is it's neither nor.

 

It’s worth noting that it seems the WE league wants to introduce promotion and relegation somewhere down the line. But they want to wait until they have enough professional clubs to sustain at least 2 divisions.

The problem is there aren’t any clubs outside the WE league at the moment that can fulfill the standards the league set. So even if they introduced promotion the way you state which I think is the only realistic way they could do it, nothing would change for a while.

 

...which is what I already wrote:

As of now we only get to hear of some unnamed clubs not being able to meet the rules. It's interesting to hear that they want to (randomly?) assemble enough clubs for two whole divisions. Do they also have plans how long they want to take with that?

With a fully working relegation pyramid a lower league club could plan to seek financial backing and rise through the leagues across several seasons while investment as well as standards met increase accordingly. The current state seems to be getting backing to be able to fulfill the high standards right away, make some opaque backroom talks and hope to get tossed into a new separate league in the next season without any regards to the sporting performance. That doesn't seem sustainable to me.

 

This only works when clubs can actually hope for future financial backing and that just isn't realistic in the current state. A recent study showed that only 3% of the Japanese public know that the WE league exists. Which means even less actually care about the league. How can the league and its clubs hope for future investment when this is the data shown? The league hasn't come up on the news once except a 3minute segment to briefly introduce the very first round. The leagues PR has been lackluster and they say they want to "acquire new demographics as fans" but they already seem to be out of ideas. 97% of Japan don't know that the WE league exists and a lot of the 3% that do, think that it will last 3 years maximum before collapsing. If I was a potential sponsor I would not invest when success in the WE league virtually means nothing for anyone outside the club.

In this situation isn't the safest bet to only include clubs that already have the necessary financial backing to safely operate a professional team? The league has to establish itself as one that is here to stay and worth investing in. When that happens I will be the one screaming for pro/rel. Until then no club can hope to rise to the requirements the league has set with or without a relegation pyramid. It's just way too early to be having this debate. It took the J league 6 years to introduce the J2. It could take 10 years for the WE league. There's no need to rush.

 

In other new, the Empress cup schedule has been released and it will take place during the winter break.

https://www.jfa.jp/women/news/00027992/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

We are talking in circle. The current state is that there is no meaningful competition beyond the WE league itself since there is no relegation system in place. You wrote they want to wait until they have enough professional clubs to sustain at least 2 divisions. But you don't get and sustain interest in that many clubs to receive the necessary backing when all those clubs are stuck in lower leagues with no way to rise through on sports merits. Interest in sports increases when there is meaningful competition in that sports that's easy to follow, and people ideally have some local team they can back within said competition to grow interest further. I just don't see that happening in the current state of an isolating WEL. My fear is that while WEL in the long run may do good, all the clubs locked out as well as their existing local community and fan base will diminish, and due to the lack of any positive outlook for those the latter will happen faster.

 

@datschge I think you forget that WE League is also a social experiment. There are various stakeholders from different women's sports in country who are keeping a close eye on this league developement - which if successful, will serve as a blueprint for setting other women pro-leagues in Japan.

Women players of WE League are set as social role models, the whole concept of this league is basically to try and brake the glass ceiling.. in country where women in leadership roles amount for only 10% of all leadrship roles.

Good sir, you cherry picking from my clumsy attempt to convey a broader point (sorry - it's my fault - I'm not literate enough in English to freely express what I had in mind).
You are obviously right in what you said there, there are no guarntees... however equal opportunity of employment between professions, not to mention genders - don't exist. Which in turn beg the question. (and that is what I ment to say in that earlier post):
Can the parent of a women professional footballer who is just entering the job market in Japan have the same sense of security regarding the future of his child as the parent of a craftsman or white collar?

I think WE League is counting and aiming onto something else.
Namely that J-League 1 clubs will join the fold with their women's sections - just like Sanfrecce did. Just like it is happening in FA WSL where influx of fans and interest is massive because they're comming from men's clubs fan base.
It's unfair to small already establish local women clubs like Iga or Ehime but that's the reality.

 

No, that's the part I (and I have the impression we all) applaud. And those more familiar with Asia and Japan also know what a big paradigm shift this actually is.

And I agree, in that regard what I'm pushing here is more like nitpicking. But I consider it an important part of sports and competition (and what makes sports actually interesting to a lot of people) so I do want to have it spellt out at least once.

I'm sorry for latching on to you on that particular point. I just think what you try to visualize there just doesn't exist in any sports, not even in men's. Sports is about competition which is naturally volatile to a large degree. Security in sports at best amounts to the ability of a select few at the top to use a short window of their life to earn a lot (for even fewer: an absurd amount) of money. That's it. If the WEL's goal is to give its players the security of a craftsman or white collar they should consider hiring all players as part of the league, and let the clubs draft them.

Ok thanks, I guess we are finally getting to the real crux here. The actual aim is not to lift the existing women football scene in Japan on to a new level, it's to rebuild it with new actors that have the required capability. Even if it means alienating the existing scene as least partly. But if that's indeed the case I have to wonder why the JFA is not putting much more pressure on the remaining JL1 clubs to create professional women teams as well.

Learned something new and got the feeling with this I have said all I wanted on this particular topic. Cheers!

 

How did she nutmeg a slide tackle...

Everything Mana does is art. pic.twitter.com/I14fEUCSAv

— AWFCLIPS (@awfclips) September 29, 2021

 

Anyone else concerned about the complete absence of any news about the National team. No new Head Coach, No Friendlies.... Nothing?

 

Considering friendlies... UEFA teams play qulaifiers so no joy there. Brazil will play friiendly with Australia. Little choice is left among strong teams - Canada, China, South Korea, New Zealand...perhaps Colombia, Nigeria or South Africa.
2 weeks long NT camp may also be an option instead of friendlies.

 

One of the top players in the world only played 5 minutes off the bench against Man City in a huge game and 94 minutes in 3 games in total. Just saying.

 

Well....Manchester City quality has clearly dropped without injuried Bronze, Kelly, Houghton, Raso, Walsh and Roebuck and new transfers like Mace and Kennedy aren't yet gel with the team. It wasn't a contest - it was execution. Man City will have seriuos problems this season.
Arsenal has depth on the bench and their coach is using it wisely. Miedema played... what 137 min in last 3 games?
I don't think Iwabuchi will play full 90 against Aston Villa either but she wiill probably play some meaningful minutes against Barca.

 

Is it possible that she doesn't need to be on all the time because she can/will make a difference the brief period she is playing? Why is it necessary for some players to be on the field the whole game? Maybe that is what she wants.

 

Arsenal coach Eidevall:
"We've targeted two big things ahead of this season. We said we need to perform better when we're playing against the other top teams, and I think we've done that. We also said that we have had too many injuries, so we need to work to get the load right."

 

Adding the @Lechus7 and @#5nadeshikofan's points. Iwabuchi said she has a loose body in her ankle when asked about her injury during the Olympics. Apparently the pain gets really bad when she plays too much. That and with the squad Arsenal have I would say her playing time isn't a huge indication of her quality.

The way I see it, she only had 5 minutes and still managed to wow the crowd.

 

Tomorrow's games:

WE LEAGUE
Jef vs Beleza 13:00
Ohmiya vs Urawa 14:00
Chifure vs Mynavi 14:00
Sanfre vs Albi 14:00
Nagano vs Inac 15:00

Nadeshiko League
Harima vs Yamato 11:00
Nagoya vs Setagaya 13:00
Cerezo vs Iga 13:00

Nadeshiko League 2
Shizuoka vs Belle 12:00
Tsukuba vs Kibi 13:30
JFA vs Bunnys 14:00

 

Another day, another A-League Dub signing!

Japanese midfielder, @reopi1201, has signed on for the upcoming @aleaguewomen 2021/22 season. 💪

📰: https://t.co/YTnu27AfaX pic.twitter.com/tfBFsNnXcf

— Adelaide United (@AdelaideUnited) October 1, 2021

Yuka Hirano vs. Saki Kumagai in today's bundesliga game. (Magneta Sport, Eurosport, Viaplay)

 

JFA announced that the new Nadeshiko coach is Ikeda Futoshi.