poll / All-Women Referees and The Prisoner

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by kolabear, Sep 27, 2021.

?

Men haven't helped/ NWSL should go back to all-women referees

  1. Yes - women whenever possible

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. Can we pretend to not hear the question?

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  1. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 kolabear, Sep 27, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
    I've noted a few times how the NWSL seems to have relaxed or rescinded a policy of all-women referees whenever possible. It's a dramatic turnaround and it's quite simply shocking that nobody in women's soccer wants to acknowledge it, neither the league nor the journalists who cover it. Or even most fans for that matter.

    This after an endless parade of complaints and controversies earlier in the season when almost all the center referees were women. No one of course is ever actually happy with the refereeing but at least in recent weeks, when we're not talking about the USWNT equal pay dispute or about management turmoil at NJ/NY/Gotham and the Washington Spirit, we're mainly talking about the soccer and not the officiating.

    1st 12 weeks:
    FIFA women 27.7%
    non-FIFA women 60.0%
    men 12.3%


    last 6 weeks:
    FIFA women 24.1%
    non-FIFA women 13.8%
    men 62.1%


    Either adding more men to the pool of referees has helped, in which case we should say so. Or it hasn't, in which case we should say so and have the courage of our convictions and demand all-women referees again (whenever possible), because we all agree it's important to have more women referees and to give them more experience and help their development.

    ****
    What's going is gaslighting. We can argue whether having more men as referees has helped, but to simply ignore that the league had an unannounced policy of women-only-referees earlier this season when there were weekly controversies over horrible officiating is gaslighting. It's pretending no one notices or they'll stay quiet about it if no one else says anything about it.

    It's like being a prisoner in a Village where everyone is supposed to go along with the charade, to be a number and not a free man, a free woman, with a free mind of our own.

    Where am I?
    In the Village
    Who are you?
    The new Number Two
    Who is Number One?
    You... are Number Six!
    I am not a number, I am a free man
    Ha-ha-ha-ha!

     
  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The rhetoric on the initial post is coming very close to getting me to completely disregard any threads you initiate. The issue of male and female referees is worthy of discussion. But I find this kind of rhetoric very disinviting.
     
    Geko repped this.
  3. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3 kolabear, Sep 28, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
    The issue of male and female referees certainly is worthy of discussion. Which is why the issue of WoSo Journalists, together with the league, trying to avoid any discussion of it is at least as important if not more so.

    We have a bit of a problem with WoSo journalism, as likeable as many of them are, and as much as we should be grateful that somebody out there cares enough to give coverage to the sport. It is not good to let them fall into such very bad habits and think they can get away with it wholly unnoticed.

    Besides, it is always a public service to remind people of The Prisoner, a truly groundbreaking TV series from the 60s which adds something to our cinematic language that George Orwell added to our purely literary one.

    I see women's soccer, as many of you do, as an act of freedom, an expression of freedom and I'm speaking of it here in those terms, in terms of what it should be, an act of freedom. If my particular manner of doing so isn't your cup of tea, it isn't your cup of tea; but we should always be able to look to it, to women's soccer, as an expression of freedom

    And yet no one, outside an "internet rando" or two, wants to talk abut that story. That's a problem
     
    cpthomas repped this.
  4. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very much appreciate the preceding post.

    It would be helpful if there were a legitimate system for rating referees. (If there is one, I do not know about it and am not aware of any data related to it.) Then, we could take a look at this year’s rating data by group -- a breakdown by FIFA men (if any for NWSL games), FIFA women, non-FIFA men, and non-FIFA women might provide some insight as to relative skills. Then, if there are significant group differences, we could ask why, what would be a good way to remedy the differences, and whether it is worthwhile to pursue a policy favoring one gender or the other notwithstanding the differences as a way of forwarding a broader policy of gender equality.

    Along these lines, refereeing critiques earier in the season were pretty severe. The change in the referee gender balance suggests that someone concluded favoring females as referees in the earlier part of the season was a response to those critiques. But, where is credible evidence that the early critiques were valid? What are the measures and where are the data? For me, at least, anecdotal evidence will not do the job, I want systematic collection and analysis of data.

    What are the sizes of the highly experienced referee pools for men and for women? Is there a big enough imbalance to force the NWSL to dip lower in the female experience pool in order to have all female or balanced female-male referees? Is that a necessary or worthwhile thing to do in order to raise the level of female referee expertise if that is something that is needed? Or, does gender equality stop when it comes to protecting NWSL players on the field (which is a sort of mind-boggling question it would be interesting to hear from players on)?

    And, a question with a different twist. I think of women’s soccer as a game in its own right, equal to but different than men’s soccer. The rules are the same, but the players are physically different, which to me makes it a different game. Are we absolutely certain that there could not be a distinction also for referees? A distinction not based on physical differences, as I do not think that needs to affect refereeing, but on how we want the games refereed? For example, the incidence of ACL injuries and concussions is higher among women than among men, related to differences in physiques. Should this be a reason for referees to call fouls and issue cards differently in women’s games than in men’s? On first thinking about it, I would say the logical answer is that it should. Would this make it harder for men who mostly referee men’s games to properly referee women’s games?

    I do not feel ready to answer the question that is the premise for this thread, but my incliniation is that there needs to be a leaning towards female referees and towards their being stricter about calling fouls and issuing cards where player conduct has potential ACL or concussion consequences. (EDIT: On second thought, I am going to go with the female preference, but with instructions about calling fouls and issuing cards in the ACL and concussion situations.)

    A subsidiary question you raise is why there has not been discussion about the female-male referee ratio change among the regular media who cover women’s soccer. One possibility is they simply do not care about it. Another is that it raises the thorny question about engaging in what appears to be gender-related referee decisions in order to protect women players who are fighting for gender equality, which would create a sort of mixed-message environment. Maybe this is something you were getting at?
     
    SiberianThunderT and kolabear repped this.

Share This Page