And if Canada hadn't of scored on that 1 shot we'd be sitting on 7 points. If you're going to play Woulda, Shoulda Coulda play it both ways.
The reality is that at this point, any one result (or even two), would not determine success or failure in regard to qualification. That, and you could also say that we were 30 min away from a 7 point window. Just so that I am not misunderstood, a loss to Honduras would have been bad, but Imo, he worst potential damage would have been to the team mentality. We had the nations league cup and Gold cup to build on that and a bad window could have easily destroyed or at the very least eroded that.
the overall record is soooooo misleading. padded with creampuffs and patsies. has he beaten a single top 20 team other than mexico (in extra time, with a PK?)...off the top of my head the guess is no. 27 wins against wales c team and el salvadors of the world is a lot different than 27 wins against full national teams in FIFA tourneys. All 27-5-6's ARE NOT created equal.....when you cite overall record of such a schedule to promote the man it seems as if you are just arguing to win rather arguing for truth.
How many national team coaches have records you expect the US coach to have? How many current National Team coaches have an above .500 record against top 20 teams? I'd guess very, very few. What you expect does not exist anywhere in national team soccer. There are 200 some FIFA national teams. Obvioulsy we, and every other team in the entire world, will play the majority of our games against "creampuffs" and teams outside of the top 20. No idea why you, and others like you create these expectations for our coaches. The end result is you will always be miserable and think our coach sucks no matter who they are. That's now way to go through life Dorfman.
which other country in the world is the globetrotters to a region full of generals?? not europe. not south america. not asia. not africa. yes the us and mexico are pretty good by world standards...and the rest of the region usually has a few other decent teams. im just saying judgin by raw numbers of wins and lossed is a horrible way to judge a national team coach who hasnt even competed in a full FIFA tourney open to more than just concacaf. if he maintains similar wins losses vs actual good teams then hats off. but crowning him off of beating up on weaklings makes zero sense to me. the majority of euro teams and southa american teams play hard opponents all the time in their regions....they are the top 20 and they are who matters. the majority of countries that actually matter in soccer decidedly DO NOT play majority creampuffs like the us does. how hard is that to see? for example lets look at argentina games since september 2019...who have they played? mexico, germany, ecuador, brazil, uruguay, ecuador, bolivia, paraguay, peru, chile, colombia, chile, uruguay, paraguay, bolivia, ecuador, colombia, brazil, venzuela, bolivia, .... and right before that they played in copa america and world cups..... where are the majority cream puffs you mentioned in that schedule?????
His record is actually BETTER against full national teams in FIFA sanctioned tournaments/qualifiers We have a Nations League loss to Canada and a Gold Cup loss to Mexico. Even with those losses, Berhalter is 17-2-2 against full national teams in the games that count. So what games are we supposed to rely on? Friendlies? Games you have imagined us playing against top teams, which have not taken place? We play in Concacaf. The games that matter right now, until a possible World Cup, are the games in Concacaf.
7 of the 19 games you mention are against teams that have 7 wins out of 45 games (Paraguay 2, Peru 2, Chile 1, Bolivia 1, Venezuela 1). Not exactly world beaters there. How exactly are you supposed to judge a coach except on wins and loses vs teams they have actually played? Style, cohesion, etc? Those are all massively subjective ideas left to the whims of the person offering the critique.
If Alabama football were to play Jacksonville State, Tennessee Tech, Western Illinois, and Louisiana Tech 10 times and won each game by 7 or less, Nick Saban has serious questions to answer. Occasionally losing or playing down to competition happens, but consistently doing so, or eeeking out 1-0 home wins doesn't project well to away games, or games against better opponents. Gonzaga basketball beats the WCC constantly so saying Mark Few is the GOAT based on wins is not ideal if your idea of success is titles(he is a great coach just using an example). So its subjective there. Of course everything is subjective, and you can only beat who you play. But looking ONLY at a record as a way to evaluate a coaching performance isn't the right way. It should be taken into account for sure, but other things should be as well. I saw Berhalter improve over the GC then make the same mistakes he'd been making (late subs, poor roster selection, bad starting lineups) and you wonder if he has indeed progressed in the areas he needs to in order to really challenge the top teams. So its all in one's perspective. You can be happy winning but also concerned about the style if your goal is to achieve a higher level. Anyway, didn't want to wade into the other arguments but I feel there should be context to wins. In order for the team to leap, Gregg has to be better.
No one is saying Greg is the greatest coach of all time, he doesn't make mistakes, or can't do better. It's the ridiculous standards that some posters have. And I don't think your analogy is all that accurate. You're comparing Alabama who has steamrolled college football for the past 15 years to the US team? What exactly has the US done or won to earn that comparison? And El Salvador, Honduras, etc are not in some division well below the US. Some fans wan to think that but it's not true.
...If you don't have a problem with people talking about Gregg's mistakes, why are you decrying people talking about Gregg's mistakes? The Alabama analogy doesn't quite fit, but we're more like Boise State. BSU is a big fish in a traditionally small pond. They've got some upsets over bigger teams, but they're clearly a cut below Alabama/LSU/Clemson and such. Since 1999 they have 17 seasons with 10+ wins. The US is a big fish in a small pond. Just like BSU feels like they should beat the likes of UNLV, NMU, and SJSU, the US feels like we should beat most teams in our region. El Salvador, Honduras, and others are a significant cut below us. They're 50-70th in the FIFA and ELO rankings, while we're a top 15-25 side. It's awfully convenient that we aren't allowed to expect results against the smaller teams of our region, yet we're expected to qualify for the WC and to get out of the GS? The worst team in the WC Groups will be a team that is significantly superior to the likes of our smaller regional rivals. If we can't expect to beat the likes of El Salvador or Honduras or Jamaica, why would we ever expect to do anything at a World Cup?
Not comparing the US to Alabama and other feds as small fries. Just making the point that all wins aren't created equal and so simply looking at the record of a coach without context is a bad standard when it's the only qualifier or main qualifier being used.
Shrug. Ultimately a USMNT coach is judged on trophies and results. Berhalter delivered the Gold Cup and the Nations League. So far he's on track for qualification. WCQing isn't supposed to be easy. There will be ups and downs. People on these boards have some bizarre version of "calamity thinking." What if we'd lost the WCQer in Honduras!!!? Well, we didn't. In the end, we won comfortably. What if we don't get 7 points in this October window???? How about we wait to see how this window goes, before making that assessment...............???? After all, we can look back at this thread and see all sorts of "what ifs" that didn't come true. Its like people want to live in some sort of alternate reality.
I definitely think it's time for Berhalter to go... not one single win since the Honduras game almost 4 weeks ago!
Uhm, the title of this thread is Fire Berhalter, not Berhalter's Mistakes. Who't criticizing expecting results? What's being criticized is the over-the-top expectations and how those results look. Teams win ugly all the time in all sports. The idea we can waltz into another country and dictate play is nonsensicial. Also, football isn't a good analogy because posession isn't as fluid as soccer where it can go back and forth in seconds. Boise State has plenty of wins that were ugly. Yes, I agree we should win these games. However, I give respect to the other teams players, home field advantage, and their coach. The other teams are professionals and they have a game plan to win too. Most posters don't see that. I'm ok with winning ugly because that's sports. Score more goals then the other team anyway you need to since that's how you win soccer.
You not understanding the analogy doesn't diminish its descriptive power. The analogy is not in any way related to how the sport is played. It's in what the fans expect. That should be plenty obvious. Of course this thread is "Fire Berhalter". When it was made, we were in the throes of a botched coaching search after Cuova, fresh off of beatdowns to Mexico, Venezuela, and Canada in competitive and Friendly games, using rosters that looked worse than those of Sarachan. The tenor of the board has shifted significantly since Berhalter's early days as the rosters have shed older, weaker players, and because Gregg has ground out better results. But the nature of those results, and the persistent issues surrounding offensive play, continue to upset people. If Gregg gets points against Mexico, people are going to give him a lot of credit, regardless whether those are grinding wins or dominant ones. But when he grinds out ties against Canada and El Salvador, he's not going to get any praise. Nor should he. I'm a classic case. I had a "Fire Berhalter" petition as my sig 6 months ago. Now it celebrates Gregg's triumphs over Mexico. It's not like people don't change their views as results come in.
Where did I say I do not understand the analogy? I do which is why I think it is incorrect. I turned off the Honduras game at half time because I was afraid we were going to lose and didn't want to watch another 45 minutes of a train wreck. I think he's made mistakes and it's frustrating he's only called in 27 players and I'm worried not bringing in replacments for Ream and Brooks is a mistake. But I realize no coach is perfect nor will any coach ever live up to ridiculous fan expectations. I don't see how calling the coach names, setting unrealistc expectations, or calling for him to be fired (with no real alternative lined up) helps the discussion.
If you yearn for proper decorum, you won't find it on the internet. And why does that even matter? Call Berhalter a moron or a genius all you want, so long as your reasons make sense. I don't think that's true. Or at the least, it's debatable. Much of the unmet expectations have centered around the team looking better and looking coherent. We have looked better and more coherent under managers that people here would consider worse than Berhalter. Ironically, it's the results, not the performances, that have held up, not the other way around. So really it's just a case of different expectations. Gray area. ??? Arena was fired with no real alternative lined up. Both times. JK was fired in the middle of WCQ specifically for Arena who was purely a stopgap manager. So, not only do firings happen without a backup lined up, often, it's not our job to have someone lined up. You can't, and should not be required to, have Pep Guardiola on standby before you can call for the firing of a coach.