Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2020/2021

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yet, they gain nothing from this stance. That replacement player is going to be just throwing money down the drain. Id take 120,000 euro of TC over nothing.. I am sure it doesn't help the opinion Gomez has of the club which could matter down the road. Of course, I dont care for it, but it has been very apparent they don't want me and folks like me as a fan. TC should have solved this.

    It fits the leagues MO though. They will use every bit leverage they can on the players. Does anyone else in the world do this? It doesn't seem that way. Instead of just worrying about how to become a place players that want to play, they are just pressuring players into this path. It is all about control and being elitist.
     
  2. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does TC make up for opportunity cost, if he’s taking minutes from another prospect?

    it seems like FCD has enough kids that want to sign that he’d have to be really good to make it worth the trouble.
     
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  3. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Sargent not even on the bench today?
     
  4. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can sort of understand Dallas wanting to keep the territories. Simply because of Austin (Reyna will build up their academy like he did while with NYC), Houston's potential, and SKC not all that far away. Yet then you have NYC, RBNY, Philly and DCU whose academy territories all overlap one another, and there has never really been any issues with kids signing for those academies. The Aaronson brothers could have just as easily ended up at Red Bull instead of the Union as an example. Same with Jack McGynn.

    IMO, MLS should do away with the territories. At the end of the day, the reality will end up being that not that many kids are going to traverse the country chasing a pro soccer dream. Most parents aren't going to be willing to allow their kid(s) to move 1000's of miles away, We're talking about a small percentage here. There's only so many players that these academies can have at a given time.

    Completely in agreement that there is a huge need for more high quality coaches in America. Along with match officials. One of the things with the rapid expansion of the game at the pro-level, is the scarcity of quality officials for all of the games.
     
  5. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK let me check what I wrote. Yeah not seeing where I pick a path. I am for playing until a team values you enough to purchase you or a loan to buy. I'll take Aaronson, McKinzie, Cannon, Richards, Busio, Tessmann, Reynolds, Sealy over the LA kids any day. Roma has money invested in whether Reynolds succeeds the LA kids didn't and have all moved on to lesser clubs. Sure not all will play for the top team right away but they treat the free players like people treat rental cars - you drive it like it's not yours.
     
  6. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After being suspended last week for being caught driving without a driver's license, Richardson rebounded well got the start and played the full 90 in a 1-0 win
     
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  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It turns out that Wes is a bit of an ass.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    FCD actually gets many of their best players from outside of their territory anyway (Tessmann, Richards, Pepi, etc.)

    I don't know if I completely buy the comment from earlier that FCD is against the elimination of homegrown territories. I personally haven't heard that from anybody associated with the club. That doesn't mean it isn't true..................

    All clubs do this. Its really no big deal.
    Do you think Borussia Dortmund keeps a kid in their academy that doesn't want to sign a contract and whose goal is to play elsewhere? Of course not. The club and the player just agree to part ways. That's what happened with Jonathan Gomez and FCD. FCD offered him a contract, he declined. He found another opportunity that allowed him to pursue the path that he wants to follow. He wanted the freedom to move where he wanted to at 18 just like Pulisic and Sargent and those guys. Best of luck to him.
     
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  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I am not sure I was directing that at you or just a general thought vs some posters on here. I did notice that you wrote....

    it seems clear that staying and playing in MLS and getting bought for a chunk of money is now better than going on a free to some random club that has no money invested in you.

    I may have been responding to this. While your view is generally broad, but this sure seems like you are picking a path. Based on the players you listed, I would much prefer group 1 of guys who didn't sign with MLS. I am sure I am missing some players and the only way I would start to prefer the guys in group 2 is adding Adams who you didn't include. I dont think any of the clubs treated the group 1 players as "rental cars". Also not sure Reynolds is a good example either as his situation doesn't look great at the moment.

    1) Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent, Reyna, Scally, Hoppe

    2) Aaronson, McKinzie, Cannon, Richards, Busio, Tessmann, Reynolds, Sealy
     
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  10. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He has a hammy issue
     
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  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean I can’t imagine that there are any teams in Europe who have keep players in their academy who have zero interest in signing with the club. It’s just a waste of time for the club. Teams do have to worry about guys getting poached by offers of more money, more playing time, etc but I don’t think it’s ever the case that they have players in their academies who they are certain have no future with the club.

    Like every other team in the world FC Dallas does what’s best for FC Dallas in terms of their academy. And that means focusing on players who have at least some interest in signing with the club. It’s one thing for a player to be unsure or willing to entertain European offers. It’s another for them to not even be willing to consider an MLS offer. And even Louisville who Gomez went to said they are never making a deal like that again.
     
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  12. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scally was a transfer
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/nycf...scally-borussia-monchengladbach-effective-202
     
  13. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    I felt his first touch was off all game and this lead to him spending too much time collecting it on his 2nd. This led to a moment in the match where a forward berated him, because he missed the opportunity to put him through on a break. Just to be clear, I’m saying he looks rusty, not that he sucks. But we should watch him and make sure he cleans his game up before we call him in.
     
  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    If that is the case, then it shouldn't be too hard for you to find some concrete examples.

    Of course the landscape in Europe is completely different than in the US. If your hypothetical kid didn't want to sign for Dortmund, it would be because he was going to sign with Bayern or some top team in another league. It is just an example of the exclusivity of the game in this country. MLS fought for control of the game in this country and everything else is under served.

    MLS was created for the good of the game in this country but they only care about themselves. You would think with how much MLS has benefitted from US Soccer protecting it, that they would be willing to do something that is in the best interest of the game. As I have said before, FCD loses more than it gains by this decision to be able to pressure players into signing and probably some idiotic perception. It is just arrogance and to give the sense of power.
     
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  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll preface this by saying that based on some of the issues he has experienced, I can't really fault you for this opinion.

    That being said, I do believe the McKennie family was sincere (at least at face value) about the UVA/Schalke situation. At that point in time, the professional pathway was just starting to open up. Pulisic had just made a name for himself at Dortmund. So I don't think it was completely off-base to think McKennie would do something similar to what a top-flight college basketball player does where he goes to college for a year or two and then "declares" to turn pro.

    If the same situation happened today, I'd be less inclined to believe the interest in a college was sincere. It would probably be more of a leverage play. But four years ago, the college vs going to Europe decision was probably more difficult.
     
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  16. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Athletic has done a ton on homegrown territories and the potential modification or elimination.

    Interestingly apparently Cappis went to Europe because MLS ruled he was in Houston’s territory and he only had interest in signing with MLS.

    The only team cited in favor of homegrown territories in their articles are Toronto and teams the only teams cited against are KC and LAFC (or at least their coaches). And then Red Bull doesn’t really weigh in but has a plan to take advantage of it happens.

    Only thing it says about FC Dallas is that they’d have to worry about other clubs coming into their area to recruit. But honestly I can’t imagine they would many of those battles and I’m sure they’d win more than their fair share in other territories.

    Honestly it would incentivize teams like Houston do a better job or risk top players getting poached and it would also help the academies of teams where there isn’t a ton of talent locally and provide them more of an option to build via the academy. And the best players would gravitate towards the best academies and the clubs who actually would give them playing time (and whom are willing to sell them on when the time comes). Which is best for their development too.

    Busio is a good example of this has he’s not from anyone’s territory and KC made a very good case to him as to why they were best for his development (which seems to have worked out pretty well).

    Here’s the articles if anyone is interested

    https://theathletic.com/611368/2018...ch-others-regions/?source=user_shared_article

    https://theathletic.com/919537/2019...n-territories-end/?source=user_shared_article

    https://theathletic.com/2166535/2020/10/28/mls-homegrown-territory-rules/?source=user_shared_article
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There should probably be a dedicated thread.
     
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  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Who are examples?

    Even if it happens, the European market is much more efficient and teams tend to pay players what they are actually worth and are quick to offer new contracts to players who become underpaid. They also don't generally put absurd price tags on players.

    How would Louisville been better of by not signing Gomez? I am sure someone else would have been willing to sign him. If not, then our soccer system is failing our players. Since MLS controls, I blame them. I have no idea why people would buy a USL team and there is little incentive today for those teams to have academies. Maybe down the road the Euro teams will be willing to pay for USL players but that demand isn't there, and of course, MLS has no interest in paying USL for them.

    The reality is they should be able to find a small compromise where they sign them through their 19th birthday and have a very low buyout clause.
     
  19. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean Adams definitely counts as part of the second group.

    Weah also probably falls into the first group.

    Hoppe is a bit of a weird one because he actually got cut by the LA Galaxy academy.

    I think the thing the MLS group has going for is there’s about to be another wave of guys going over like Pepi and others.

    And then you have someone like Steffen who went to Europe where it didn’t work out, came back to MLS to get things back on track, and then got himself a move to Man City.

    I think the biggest thing is I’d like to see more of these guys in not great situations in Europe come back and use MLS to get things back on track.

    Like there had been some talk of Llanez coming back and playing for Ramos in Houston. That’s a way better situation for him than the Austrian second division. Same thing for Soto who is playing for Porto’s B team with no real prospects of moving up. These players are all at an age where they all need consistent first team football at as high a level as they can get it.
     
  20. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hopefully some creative accounting like you suggested will come in. A buyout clause would protect both sides. Maybe something like 500k would cover it.
     
  21. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean FC Dallas is definitely not putting absurd price tags on their players. We know this because they are selling players regularly and we’ve yet to hear of someone not moving because Dallas wanted too much money.

    And honestly it’s not really the case anymore in MLS that guys aren’t moving because the price tag is too high. The bigger issue is the European window is right in the middle of the MLS season and teams are loathe to sell key players in the middle of the season when they have less of an ability to find an adequate replacement.

    I mean all I can say about Louisville is that they said they would never make a deal like that ever again. So they clearly don’t think it worked out the way they wanted and the team itself is not happy.

    I mean do you have any examples of players who a European team kept in their academy when that player said they had no interest in signing a deal?

    Honestly it’s a lot more cutthroat in Europe when it comes to these things. Clubs don’t waste time on guys who don’t have a future there. Look at Ilaix Moriba. He wouldn’t sign a contract extension so Barcelona completely froze him out and wouldn’t play him. They did ultimate get a transfer fee but it was not a good situation for the player.

    It’s honestly more shortsighted of Gomez than of FC Dallas. He would have gotten his European move anyways had he signed, he just would have also gotten some MLS playing time and high level training opportunities with Bayern. FC Dallas would have definitely sold him over to Europe fairly quickly and have gotten a return for the investment they put into him.
     
  22. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree I’d like to see that too but it’s not that simple. Those young guys are out on loan from larger teams. They like to get them PT but their still under contract. MLS doesn’t like taking players on loan if it’s not with an option to buy. Thered need to be some changes to the clubs on each side stance. The easiest path forward would be MLS buying cheaper but offering buy back and or sell on fees. Just not sure that they’ll change their approach on that. At least not yet.
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Are they? Llanez isn't on a contract with a bigger team. Neither is Kobe Hernandez Foster. Mendez signed on in Portugal, but they aren't a big club -- they have a home stadium with a capacity of 6,100.

    Soto is pretty much the only guy who seems stranded who is signed on with a club with money. Maybe Taylor Booth, but I'm not sure he's stranded, so to speak.

    There's no reason for MLS to take developmental players on loan without an option to buy. That's a tactic used worldwide by teams without any money to invest in assets, and that's the exact opposite of MLS.

    More of these players should be willing to pull a Emo Hyndman or Keaton Parks earlier in their career if they can't find a club invested in them, but I'd imagine it is hard to adjust your dream when you've spent a long time placing Europe as the endgame.
     
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  24. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Llanez is still with Wolfsburg. Soto is Norwich. The rest wasn’t part of what I quoted so I wasn’t talking about them.
     
  25. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member+

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018


    To be fair, s***-eating grin is the permanent state of his face.
     

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