Pre-match: October WCQ window roster

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Reccossu, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jamaica almost never has a lot of fans so I'm guessing 95% plus US support.

    I have four but two are up for sale now because a buddy can't make it. Anyone needing two somewhat pricey seats (I think all Austin seats always are) DM me. Would like to see real fans there first.
     
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  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Reyna's injury does open up a spot on the roster for this type of player.
    [He may be back, but its pretty uncertain. And even if he's back, he likely won't have played for a month.]

    I just think it unlikely that Sonora is that player for October.

    He's had no involvement with US Soccer. (His brother Joel has, of course)

    Players like Green, Mihailovic, de la Torre, etc. seem more likely at this point.
    And of course there's Musah, if he want to add him back to the mix.

    That's not to say we shouldn't call up Sonora and take a look at him in a friendly.
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'd put both at 0.0% chance.
     
  4. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of this list Musah seems by far the most likely. We'll also probably see Richards, Arriola, Hoppe, and Zardes for sure. And then maybe Busio and Gioacchini.

    Scally I think is in the picture but it also will depend on what happens with Araujo and whether Moore or Cannon are playing at all.

    Ferreira is tricky just because it's not clear where exactly he fits in terms of position. He and Mihailovic are definitely making a case based on their play but I don't know if there is going to be room on the roster for either quite yet.

    Sonora is just coming from so far outside the picture its hard to see him getting called up yet. I'd just like to see some indication he's on Berhalter's radar and that he's under consideration for future call ups.
     
  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm willing to bet that not a single person recommending Alan Sonora, for example, has actually watched Alan Sonora play a full game. I'd love to be wrong here, but can anyone even give a simple scouting report?

    If we pull in a center mid we haven't seen for a while or sparsely, it will be someone like De La Torre or Green, who have been in camps. Or Busio, etc. Someone who has played with us.

    And of course, Musah looks healthy, and I suspect he's called in before all of them. Hopefully, McKennie will be back.

    At striker, we have Dike, Zardes and Hoppe who all weren't there last window, and the first two are healthy, and the last one got some minutes.

    If someone is tearing it up, I can see a Pepi-like call-up (or Konrad, who had been in one prior camp) ... but we're not likely to see random speculative call-ups.

    It's freaking WCQ, and we just watched a window where a cohesive Panama team whupped on a team of EPL and Championship players in Jamaica in large part because they played cohesive as a team and the latter didn't. But yes, let's stick Alan Sonora with 2 days of camp into the center of the team.
     
  6. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    You’re right — I was too generous at 0.1% now that I think about it. 0.0% feels right.
     
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  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I haven't seen Sonora play a full game. So what? He is not playing in USL. He is excelling in a better-than-MLS league. Folks want Musah called in, yet he hasn't been excelling in La Liga.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Pepi was a pretty special case. The dual-nationality issue made it a very urgent situation, and both Dike & Zardes weren't available.

    I don't think we're likely to see that type of first-time callup very often.

    I do think there's a chance we see Scally due to the curious club situations of Cannon, Reynolds, and Moore. Also the injury to Vines on the other side. But we don't need Scally right now.

    I have no issue whatsoever with the USMNT taking a look at Alan Sonora. He's performing better in Argentina than Johnny is in Brazil. And we were pretty proactive with Johnny. I just don't think its likely that we'll call Sonora up to WCQers. Maybe our next friendlies.

    Based on what I've seen from the Argentine league recently, I'm not convinced its better than MLS.
    The second a player shows even a modicum of skill, he's sold. Even to MLS.
    So the quality of play there seems pretty average at the moment.

    Only one team in the quarterfinals of the 2021 Libertadores and none in the semifinals.
     
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  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Ha, when I read yours (before I posted) I thought, yeah, there's some non-zero chance but it ain't much.

    But there's just so many guys that look ahead.

    I've never been a fan of the scattershot / big tent method of call-ups (at least relative to Berhalter's fairly big tent) -- I think you can evaluate a lot from club play and scouting -- but I really don't get it in WCQ.

    I understand injury-driven call-up, or a talented young player like Scally to help get them integrated ... but I don't understand how people have Haji Wright higher than like 7th or 8th on their striker depth chart.

    There seems to be a philosophy for some people to call up everyone, give them a game or two, write off anyone who has a bad or mediocre game or two for any reason, and simply keep going down the depth chart ...

    ... as if there isn't substantial evidence that the chance of them being better is very, very low. And that's before you get to fit issues or cohesion.

    Striker is a tough position to find someone who works at times, but we've evaluated a lot of guys. And we've got Pepi, Sargent, Pefok, Zardes, Dike, Hoppe (if a striker) at least established ... plus Soto, Gioachinni, Ferreira, etc.

    We can call in 3 or 4 strikers and I'd rather see from that first group than Haji Wright at this point.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Has he been excelling? Why do you think so? What's his style of play? I'm not trying to be smart; I'm literally asking because I don't know, but particularly for players at this level, his fit, style of play and relative skillsets actually matter.

    Argentina is an MLS-adjacent league. There's not a lot of evidence that it is better, aside from River.

    What skills is he bringing to the table? Is he a good defender or does he need to be protected? Is he a shuttler or does he play forward?

    If we think he is a talent at the level of say Gio Reyna, or yes, Yunus Musah (less realized than Gio), you find a way to get him in and integrate him. And even then you need to try to figure out fit.

    If we think he's a 23 year old playing even well in a league similar to MLS with perhaps MLS/Argentina league ceiling, then things like skillset, style of play and cohesion matter so much more.
     
  11. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Member

    United States
    Jan 11, 2013
    FWIW, the last roster announcement was Thursday, August 26th, our 1st match vs El Salvador was Thursday, September 2nd.
     
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    5 of the last 6 Copa Lib finals have featured Argentine teams.
     
  13. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So on that same timeline we’d see the roster on Thursday September 30th. So in 10 days basically.
     
  14. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Member

    United States
    Jan 11, 2013
    Thats my guess, give or take a day.
     
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  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    This year they got absolutely trashed by Brazilian clubs, though....................

    I travel a lot down in Argentina. They're convinced that MLS is getting ready to pass them.
    Its mostly due to the financial situation of Argentine clubs versus MLS.
    The wake up call for them was Atlanta coming down and paying a fortune for Ezeqiel Barco.
    They were unprepared for MLS paying that kind of money for a promising youngster. And it really has continued.

    As usual, we're mostly on board with each other. I'm 100% in favor of giving a look to Sonora.
    I just don't think it'll be in October.

    [He'd join Ferreira as sons of former foreign MLSers...........................maybe Dante Sealy soon too.]
     
  16. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Last place Austin FC roster features two Argentine DPs. One is terrible. The other is pretty good. I think the good one came up through the River Plate system.
     
  17. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    When is the camp roster to be announced? If the Euros can’t go to Panama it better be a big list.

    If it has 8 midfielders, and we assume Wes, Adams, Acosta and Musah are locks, rank the relative likelihood of each of these players grabbing one of those last 4 spots:

    Lleget
    Roldan
    Sands
    Green
    LDLT
    Busio
    Williamson
    Yuell
    Bradley (j/k)
     
  18. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Talents are one factor but forms are another. MLS is in mid season and Euro is in early season. So it is understandable MLS guys performing better than Euro guys.
    Unless you are extremely talented, a comparable MLS euro players do not make much sense right now unless a real need.
    For example, outside backs. Left back, Dest isn’t really performing and injuries, Bello is not ready, Vine is injured. Right back, clubs issues for both Moore/Cannon, Dest is hurt, Yedlin shows age related issues, and Arujo still not decide. Do you bring Scally in? Of course make sense. It is better to force Adams as your right wing back.
     
  19. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Why the dismissiveness w/Wright? He’s the one guy I’m actually inclined to be conspiracy minded as explanation of non call ups or at least locker room issue concerns I just speculate about. He’s basically had 3 careers now since he left for Europe

    Phase 1: Spring 2016 through Spring 2017 with Schalke Youth
    Scored 15 goals in 30 appearances, about 2450 in terms of minutes. 1 Goal Per 163.

    Why was Tab Ramos not remotely interested? I don't know. I know that he specifically talked about not getting McKennie or Taitague released for the U17 WC, couldn't get Perez released either. Ended up calling up Sargent after his fantastic U17 Qualifying campaign where he was a goal machine. Despite that, though, and the lack of Forward options, he specifically made a point of not including Wright as someone he was interested in getting but couldn't get a release (Schalke made a run and nearly beat Bayern Munich for that title at the youth/whatever division level playoffs).

    Phase 2: Wilderness Years
    2017-2018 through 2019-2020
    15 appearances, mostly sub minutes (averaged about 30+ mins an appearance) and just 1 goal in '17-'18, demoted after that disappointment, produced again, 14 goals in 1400+ minutes, at the lower league level, then loaned out to VVV for 19-20 and in 29 appearances and nearly 2000 minutes he scored 6 goals which sounds nice until you realize 0 of them were league goals. At this point he bottomed out, and nobody other than the # guy (905713 whatever) that stayed fully committed all the way down, was considering him anything whatsoever. He was as over as Michael Renken was post knee injuries.

    Phase 3: Picking it back up
    2020-Present
    After the disastrous two years in three to wrap things up in Germany and the Netherlands, he moves on to Denmark and a coach who gets him and scores 13 in 36 games with a huge dip during the winter, basically he did nothing from early December through March, then woke up again to score 5 goals down the stretch including one March Goal in their Domestic Cup.

    So the Winter swoon, much like Reyna's, but he woke up from it to add 5 goals through the last six weeks or so.

    Now he's opened up with 4 goals in 5 games with one of Turkey's bottom feeders that barely survived relegation last year making it 17 goals in his last 41 league games. You compare that to his run with Schalke and VVV where he scored basically 1 league goal in like 40 appearances and something, clearly, is happening. Yes it's a dip in league quality, but Turkey isn't straight trash, it's got some legit teams, and while Denmark aint great, it isn't pure garbage either, both leagues are better than those where he made his bones with Schalke (4th division I think?, not sure).

    So at this point, unless there's clearly some nasty business we don't know about that put a stink on him (like supposedly Holmes and Egg did not get along at all in '19, and Egg basically kicked him off the team after that, and Holmes has said in interviews recently he was in a very bad place for a couple of years there ('18-'20?) which might explain that) of the locker room cancer, uncoachable angle, you have to wonder at this point what's going on if he's not called in.

    I get that your skeptical, but our forwards other than Pepi aren't scoring, none of them. They're also very injured if you include wing forwards/sided midfielders, and it takes only a moment to note that about 1/3 of Haji's career matches have been as a wing forward or something analogous to that. So he's versatile as well, w/13 (or 1/3) of his 35 goals coming from the wing, while the other 2/3's come from the striker position where he's played 2/3's of his games.

    Maybe he does have a stink on him? Maybe there is a problem. I see zero reason to explain why he wasn't even considered for Tab's U20 squad before Schalke refused (till the playoffs were done technically), I did see some reason to keep him on the "monitor/observe" file last year while he was rebuilding his career from scratch, and when he went looking for a new club after his coach left in Denmark, well, maybe you don't call him to the Gold Cup because he's looking for a new gig, and most of the Forwards and Wing Forwards were healthy for Window 1 so not getting the call up then kinda made sense (though I would have, since Weah was out, and our remaining winger depth was annihilated in that window) but now, with wing forwards injured and only Pepi and Pefok scoring at the club level (I know Zardes just grabbed one, but he's basically been invisible forever until this past weekend), why on earth wouldn't you call him? He brings size, some pace, and solid skill to bear, and is versatile. Having started hot in Turkey with a hat trick plus a disallowed fourth goal against Rizespor, and another against Beskitas this weekend, he's getting the goals he couldn't find with Schalke and VVV. I'll grant Rizespoor is kinda whatever, bottom dweller, but he just scored against the 1st place side and annual Champions League/Europa League Turkish SL rep, so, I don't know, why not take a look?

    I'm suspicious. This is a guy that was the star of the youth program to such an extent that it was him and not Pulisic, that got the the grantland piece seven years ago, and he was at least as hyped as Pulisic. The wheels fell off, no doubt, 2 of the 3 years following his '16-'17 season with Schalke, but now he's put together a quality season last year, and started with 4 goals in 5 games, and damn near to 5 in 5. Not sure why we wouldn't at least take a look. This isn't a guy whose just off somewhere doing nothing, or off somewhere doing a little but in a system and style that doesn't apparently fit Egg's approach like Novakovich, and he has the versatility Egg likes. So why seemingly no interest? Not really getting it.

    Not arguing he's a stud or anything, just that at this point, he's producing for more than a year straight (with admittedly a huge dip last winter) and that he plays at least one position where we've got issues.
     
  20. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Member

    United States
    Jan 11, 2013
     
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  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    we usually name rosters after a weekend slate of games, so this is a tweener date. id expect later rather than sooner.
     
  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    DOn't get me wrong. I don't have any issue with Wright.

    But how far down is he on my forward depth chart?

    I'm trying to find room on this roster for attacking players who got on the field this weekend in La Liga (Hoppe, Musah) and Ligue 1 (Weah, Gioacchini). None of whom were on the roster in September. Pulisic will be back. De la Fuente is still there. Aaronson is still there.

    Hell, it seems the community has quickly forgotten how dominant Dike was in his first MLS season followed by his Championship stint. Dike is still not fully fit, but I also have him ahead of Wright at the #9 slot. I think that given a run of games at this level, Dike would be totally dominant for the USMNT in CONCACAF. Just a beast in the rough-and-tumble Championship.

    Then there's Zardes, who can be counted on at the CONCACAF level. Also scored against this weekend.

    So at least for me it has more to do with having those other guys ahead of Wright for WCQers right now. For a friendly? Sure, why not.

    I mean, Tyler Boyd plays on a team of similar quality in Turkey as Wright (both bad). Are people demanding the inclusion of Boyd? He had an assist this past weekend.
     
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  23. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just the way we did it last time in terms of naming it on the Thursday before the weekend slate of games for a game the following Thursday. We'll see how it goes this time but if we really are 10 days away from a roster getting named lends me to think we will see Scally or Araujo (pending his decision) on it (as neither Moore or Cannon have started a game so far this season). I will say the longer we go on Araujo without hearing anything the better it is given he needs to file a one time switch to play for Mexico this window.
     
  24. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    We don't specifically need Scally right now, but we likely will need Scally in January and March when all of our MLSers are out of season or just getting back into season, and right now we have issues with the health and club situations of guys on both flanks. He can play both. We have two home matches this window (both theoretically easy by final round of qualifying standards). This is the right time to call him in.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    His youth team career is pretty irrelevant to me.

    What I see from Haji Wright over the last year or so:
    • Strong physical tools
    • Decent technical skills but not strong in the build-up
    • A high percentage of goals in Denmark were on the break, one on one "outmuscle" style goals that I am uncertain whether they will translate
    • A decent start in Turkey buoyed by a hat trick against a team with 1 point in 5 games. Not saying he's been bad, but let's not get too excited about that specific instance
    It's October call-up time, and basically every striker we have is available. You're not going to call in 5 strikers, so pick your 3 or even 4.

    The goal is 9 points. This isn't experimentation anymore. If you are calling him in as #4 and don't need to play him, whatever, I don't care.

    But if you intend to use him, even as a sub, you are betting that he's not only better in the total talent sense, but better in this team, with these tactics and these teammates, right now, with minimal practice, than three of Pefok, Dike, Sargent, Zardes, Pepi and Hoppe.

    I'm not a believer in Wright, period, to be clear. If he keeps it up against the better teams of Turkey, or if he starts scoring goals in a manner I think is more translatable, I will change my mind.

    But we are placing qualification on the line. I can understand frustration and concern with some of those guys, but I will absolutely take a mediocre known entity in a Zardes or another young up and coming in a Hoppe -- who at least had the GC -- than try to bring in Wright as a top 3 striker right now. And I'd put Dike there as well -- who is a lot like Wright but apparently because he didn't play well with a dislocated shoulder.

    Bringing in Wright as a camp invitee and see what happens? Cool. But we need 7-9 points and while I agree we can't be putting Sargent out there because he cannot seem to score ... I am not sure how we wrote off everyone else in this bucket so quickly.
     
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