Man, this thread has really jumped the shark when Sargent is getting compared to Anna Kournikova. And if Sargent is Kournikova, is Soto then Milli Vanilli?
Two points, both of which are true: 1) he needs to be to be a real solution for the MNT 2) MLS is a good and improving league, so a "better than MLS" player could be an option now and will increasingly be one going forward
I think in 5 years if Josh is "just" a bottom tier EPL striker or upper echelon Championship player he'd probably do well in what is now and will continue to be a quality product in MLS. The league has gotten to the point, maybe not yet financially, but quality wise, where that type of player, if American, would probably not lose any edge playing at home and would reap the benefits of being closer to home and family. Financially I'd imagine in 5 or so more years if things keep going how they are MLS would be able to compete with the Championship on salaries for that sort of player. I have a question: what exactly is Josh's "hedgehog skill"? It's not finishing, it's not hold up play or passing or poaching -- is it being a defensive forward and work rate while being a decent but not great athlete? That to me just has a limited ceiling. Useful player, certainly, but not one that gets you excited as a fan.
Yup, you all know exactly where Sargent's career is heading! It is so clear at 21 years old! It is 100% clear he can not improve from here! By the way, here is another US national team member....And here is what he was doing in BL2 and BL from 19 1/2 to 21 1/2 years old (the latter being Josh's current age) =================================================== "" Hertha suffered relegation from the Bundesliga in 2012. After the departure of some players and his form in preseason, Brooks made his professional debut as a starter in Hertha's 2. Bundesliga opener on August 3, 2012, a 2–2 draw with SC Paderborn 07 at the Olympiastadion. He played 29 matches over the season as the team won the league title and promotion, and scored once in the last game of the season on May 19, 2013, a late equalizer in a 1–1 home draw with Energie Cottbus.[5] Brooks scored in his Bundesliga debut on August 10, 2013, in Hertha BSC's 6–1 victory against Eintracht Frankfurt.[6][7] His appearances over the 2013-2014 season WERE LIMITED BY INJURY AND POOR FORM, and he also missed time in April 2014 while recovering from the application of a large back tattoo, a decision that did not please manager Jos Luhukay.[8] "" ==================================================== Obviously- at the ripe old age of 21 1/2, we could already predict that this guy Brooks' career was going to flatline and he would never acquire the skills to make it much further......middling/bottom club Hertha Berlin and semi-starter was as good as it would get. That's where John Brooks stood at 21 1/2 years old (same age as Josh Sargent) Simple logic- right? We already gave this guy Brooks a couple season's to prove his long-term value....and he can't even establish himself as a regular starter on a mediocre BL club. Tsk, tsk...moving on to the next hot prospect... But wait.......flashing forward to 2021.... Which defenders make your Bundesliga Team of the Season for 2020/21? | Bundesliga Huh??...This same LOSER Brooks is now a top 10 defender in Bundesliga at 28 years old.....but......how.....is....that....possible ?? IN SUMMATION..... seriously, how many other player examples must be posted here before several of you guys just mea culpa and admit you have no clue. Your are posting out your 'you-know-what' and your 'predictions' are all worthless. Just learn to sit back on enjoy the ride on the Josh train....keep looking out the window and don't worry about the destination....because you won't be able to guess the real answer anyway
Reading all these "Josh is just not exciting" comments reminds me a lot of the Bigsoccer discussions about Brian McBride early in his career. He was referred to as "McHead" in those days as many posters felt he was worthless as a forward unless we spent all game lobbing crosses at McBride's head. Other posters would argue that McBride brought more than just a good header to the game and the team played better when he was in there because of his hold up play and intangibles. Then the 02 World Cup came around and and McBride silenced everyone and went on to become the unquestioned best true #9 in the pool and IMHO in our history. Sargent feels exactly the same way to me. I don't know if in say two years he's our unquestioned best #9. I think the smart money is on Pepe there, but I do think Sargent will be better than McBride was and that's definitely not a player we should be saying should head back to MLS at 21. Give him time.
9/10 a middling player remains a middling player. I see this argument constantly in NBA forums. Just because one time a mediocre young player turned into star doesn't mean it's the likely outcome: we just never here about the other 9 guys who remained mediocre.
At the moment, it seems that, for example, Jordan Morris' Seattle Sounders are paying an average of $375k in "guaranteed compensation" (https://soccerprime.com/seattle-sounders-fc-player-salaries/). That's barely 60% of the Championship average and it conceals really wide variations - Nicolas Lodiero is on $2.5 million, followed by Svensson and Roldan on $596k; Ruidiaz is on $1.8 million but Morris gets $620k, etc. Nonetheless, the product on the field is improving and there's little difference now between median MLS and Championship sides: Bristol City or Preston are about as good as Vancouver or Nashville. Meanwhile, the off-the-field side of things - SS Stadia, dedicated training complexes, sports medicine, etc. - has generally caught up and continues to improve. The real problem is the lack of balance in the quality of players in a given squad. For example, the Sounders' midfield payroll is reportedly Nicolas Lodeiro - $2,502,250 Gustav Svensson - $600,000 Alex Roldan - $596,600 Joevin Jones - $528,750 Joao Paula - $370,000 Miguel Ibarra - $318,750 Harry Shipp - $235,000 Jordy Delem - $70,750 Cristian Roldan - $57,250 If Seattle were to upgrade from Svensson, Roldan and Jones to guys who can command $1 million or so, Paula and Ibarra to guys worth $550k and, especially, Delem and Roldan to guys worth $100k - and the others in the league were to follow suit you'd get to a situation where the "little difference between" comparison would be West Brom or Bournemouth versus Vancouver or Nashville.
IMO if you add tactical intelligence and tactical discipline, plus good technique, you've got him - so far. As you say, useful but not special. To be honest, when peak Jozy got on the ball I had a better "something could happen here", which may tell y'all more about my powers of observation than Sarge's goal scoring ability . A good, well-run club with a good coach and quality football as its identity has given him a 4-year deal and he's only 21. He's clearly the first-off-the-bench offensive sub already and he hasn't yet had time to bed in to Norwich's system and adjust to the EPL, so the floor is at least decent. As for the ceiling, a little time (about Xmas IMO) will tell us quite a lot, and a little patience will help us all a lot too.
Once the value of McBride's game became apparent, the team catered its game and tactics to him, which is probably the highest praise a player can get. I don't see that happening with Josh since his qualities aren't as apparent. If our game plan is to press maniacally until we drop, he's well suited. If it's anything else, I'm not so sure.
I agree that some MLS players who are good enough to go to Europe don’t go because their salary here is higher than it would be there, or the domestic club just demands too high a transfer fee. Supposedly Miles Robinson is in that position. Given the severity of Jordan’s injury I have no idea what version of Jordan Moreis will emerge when he comes back. But I thought that before he got hurt he would have been in serious contention for a starting wing position with the US team on the right (probably competing with Timo Weah). I really like Morris’ game. He has become a strong finisher and a strong crosser, and he tracks back well and sticks in. Both he and Timo bring elite speed on the right that we don’t really have with other options there. Given that both are injured, Aaronson and Konrad may be surpassing them, but we don’t know that yet.
"Middling players" don't become automatic starters on Bundesliga teams at the age of 20. Sargent is literally the first US born #9 to accomplish that unless you consider what Jozy did at Hull to be comparable. Takes like this one are not going to age well when Sargent is starting for a mid-table EPL club in a few years.
I don’t see the tactical intelligence or discipline. He rarely finds himself in the right place for an easy finish. He also rarely makes a great run to open up the defense. He just runs around a lot and tries hard, but it’s generally aimless when his team has the ball. For whatever he lacked in skill, Mcbride was elite in the air with great athleticism. He also was a college player who entered the pro ranks at a much later age, which explains why he’s a late bloomer. Josh on the other hand has been in professional environment since his teens, so it’s not a good comparison regarding ceilings.
I’m thinking Josh is struggling because his one true thread title has yet to be implemented. Let the Red Head Redemption begin!
It's possible he's a fox? I wouldn't say that necessarily gives him a limited ceiling, if so (obviously his ceiling has limits, but I don't think his balanced skillset is what is causing that).
Thank you so much! Some of the kids are easy to love and others I have to remember (as you said) they are the products of their home life. I can't understand how so many have such low self esteem or zero work ethic. I was raised in this neighborhood 25 years ago but my parents were different. They got me out of here and nurtured me to have desires to travel and challenge myself. I want the same for my kids. They need only to feel challenged and I wanna be that force for them. I wanna be their no.1 champion but I need them to work with me as well as their folks. I'll admit the first two weeks discouraged me but I fell for the kids. I never wanna leave them. I want to be there everyday so they can trust me and know I'll always support them. Hopefully that bares fruit in time. For sure, we're nowhere near learning as much as we need to for that LEAP Test. I really feel they're set up to fail but that's politics. The only thing that matters to me is whether my kids are learning in the classroom and becoming better versions of themselves. Today was my 19th day of school so I'm trying to take it one day at time. I just arrived home so I'll have 5 hours (before bedtime) to redo my google classroom and redo seating charts and try to refine my lessons so we can push through the nonsense and get them to that sweet spot of learning.
Damn, missed the whole teaching sidebar in this thread. Congrats! It sounds like you have the kids' best interests at heart and that'll take you and them a long, long way. There's *a lot* of bullshit but there's also a lot of hope and it's important to hold on to that. I never taught anywhere nearly as punishing, but one of my fondest memories was giving a kid his end of semester review kind of thing and I told him how (despite his disruptions and bickering with everyone in the class) impressed I was with his intelligence and how I really saw a lot in him, and believed in him, and knew and hoped he could go as far as he wanted and as his talents could take him and his response was so surprising at the time. His whole demeanor changed, his voice changed, he sat up totally straight in the chair and said he was surprised at that and thought I didn't like him and how no one ever told him that, not even his mom, and how much those words meant to him. I don't know where he ended up but I figure if you can inspire even one kid to something better than what they have, or toward the life they want, that's your debts paid. Everything on top of that is gravy. Enjoy it man, still the most rewarding job I've ever had.
Think my last year was U-11. All region in two other sports in HS and played low level college baseball. I've read Inverting the Pyramid twice, Pirlo's thesis once, and watched the 1st season of Ted Lasso. Sometimes, if my knees aren't too balky, I play a park game once and a great while. Qualifies me as a damn expert imo.
Wut?!? You are a teacher too! Jesus, we saps are all a bunch of teachers?!?? I created a thread a while a go on where are they now, specifically what I was doing at least...
Every teacher in the world should be made to watch the moment in Hoop Dreams when the mom finds out she passed her nursing test before every semester - or maybe every class. The hidden learned helplessness of the "average" or "lower level" student is more deeply ingrained than most realize. As the dad of a very dyslexic kid who suffered from (and hid) too-long un-diagnosed eye issues (who was a frustrated jerk about it to them for too long as well) and who is now a 4x Dean's List honor student thanks to some awesome, positive teaching, I applaud any and all teachers who can inspire a little confidence and personal belief in kids in a world that too easily, even happily diminishes the quiet, late-bloomers with ruthless efficiency. Thanks to every one of you... End of PSA Oh, and Sarge sux!