2021 Gold Cup

Discussion in 'Referee' started by ref29, May 22, 2021.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Counterpoint. No one one the field asked for it or expected it. So, with "no flashpoints" through 70+ minutes and no one asking for a red card...

    I mean, you certainly can't fault Fischer for not sending it down, at the very least. Martinez saw it and called what he wanted to call. It's not like the decision was a mistake. It was a concious choice.
     
  2. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because it's CONCACAF.
     
  3. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Read above. It is. But CONCACAF GONNA CONCACAF
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also because the referee is 29. Did you know he's 29?
     
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  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean, that's pretty good spin. You aiming for a role in the CONCACAF offices? ;)
     
  6. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    I heard that once...twice...
     
  7. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    CONCACAF once again showing it does understand how added time works
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I almost believe it. To some extent, you have to referee to expectations. This was the "flashpoint" we discussed, he reacted instantly with a yellow, and it totally worked. Whether ot not expectations should be for a red in that situation is a great question, but I think we all know in a CONCACAF event that yellow is what is expected. And he gave that. It's one of those bizarre circumstances where the more correct red card would probably lead to a disatrous conclusion to the match.

    That said, yeah, it's a red card. And the "refereeing to expectations" philosophy is directly contradictory to the concept of VAR and SFP decisions being anything close to objective. I'd give the red card. But that's one of at least several reasons I'm not officiating a Gold Cup Final.
     
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  9. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well you aren’t 29 so…….
     
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  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd also argue that "refereeing to expectations" is fine (sometimes) up until you're talking about player safety. A boot to the head is a player safety issue. You need to red card that because its dangerous.
     
  11. OkieZebra

    OkieZebra Member

    Aug 11, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    At 99' we get a goal kick chant, followed by a PA "cut that out" announcement.
     
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  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two good cautions in second half extra time.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Just punishment for a cynical foul
     
  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have our two referees for US-Mexico games - Said Martinez and Ivan Barton. Martinez really was good tonight. I'll give him a pass on the studs to the head, because that's just CONCACAF. Martinez had that game in control the entire night. Compare that to the crap show that was Mexico-Canada Thursday night.
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have ours. But we also know it's not going to be that simple--particularly with El Salvador and Honduras in the Octagonal.

    We talk a lot about assigning puzzles. The Octagonal is a nightmare. You have some of your best referees coming from the teams participating (as well as some of your not best referees, who need to be used for political reasons). With 3.5 qualification spots, card accumulation, triple matchdays, etc., etc.... we could see some crazy things. It's also worth pointing out that, pound-for-pound, the US v Mexico matches might not be the most important ones insofar as qualification goes--I mean, it's 50/50 that MD12 in Mexico City is either completely irrelevant or one of the most tense CONCACAF WCQs ever. So it's hard to plan for what might be the biggest matches.

    But I agree with the sentiment that Barton and Martinez are two CONCACAF referees I trust for big games. I'd like to see more of Brown, too, and Lopez is still around and quite competent. Ever so quietly and perhaps counter intuitively given all our complaints about CONCACAF tournament officiating, there is a small stable of Central American referees that I trust for tough matches. But I stress both small and Central American. There is no one from the islands that I think is up to snuff right now and even within Central America, there seems to be a concentration of talent. One of the biggest question marks for me, honestly, is which Mexican referees get the bigger matches and whether or not they perform. Right now, I'd take the four names I've listed in this paragraph over anyone from the FMF, which is not the type of thing I'd ever say in the past. I think I have more concern over Ramos letting a US v Honduras game get out of hand than I do Barton letting US v Mexico slip.
     
  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've watched enough UEFA RAP clips to think UEFA would want a yellow here too, especially in the CL Final. It was fairly low force, the studs didn't rake the head and it looks like a lot of the force was through the heel. I think UEFA would rate that as yellow+/borderline red.
     
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  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that the European version of Yo! MTV Raps? :D
     
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  19. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW there is an online sports officiating summit on-going which is free. But the reason I used the Gold Cup thread is because of the soccer round table.

    It is being led by some of the great names in our sport - Howard Webb, Esse Baharmast, Sandra Serafini.

    And of course Dr. Joe Machnik!

    https://hopin.com/events/2021-summit-at-home
     
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