2021 MLS Week 16 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/28/21

    Los Angeles FC vs Minnesota United
    Banc of California Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Baldomero Toledo
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Eric Weisbrod
    4TH: Ramy Touchan
    VAR: Joe Dickerson
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    07/30/21

    New York City FC vs Columbus Crew
    Yankee Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Matthew Nelson
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    Orlando City vs Atlanta United
    Exploria Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Rubiel Vazquez
    AR1: Brian Poeschel
    AR2: Diego Blas
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    LA Galaxy vs Portland Timbers
    Dignity Health Sports Park (10PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Eduardo Mariscal
    4TH: Baldomero Toledo
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar
     
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can we talk about Olympic track and field officiating here? Because LOL at the decision the judges made to let the U.S. back into the 4x400 mixed relay.
     
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  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CONCACAF gonna CONCACAF.
     
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  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Galaxy:Timbers
    Last foul of the game should have been a red for DOGSO.
    Had he not been grabbed, he is at full stride and three strides ahead of the defender to his left. No way that nan gets to him before he gets a shot off.
     
  5. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting goal overturn by VAR in Seattle for a ball out of play.

    From the angle shown, I think the ball was probably out, but I'm not sure it was clear and obvious from the angle shown. It was the classic case of being able to see green between the line and the ball, but the ball is in the air and the angle isn't right on the line.
     
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  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was curious to see the angle that Dickerson got and this seems pretty clear.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I’m with @sjquakes08. I don’t think you can 100% say with certainty that’s out. Of course, I also know 97% of people watching will say you can, so that makes it all quite challenging. Ultimately, the lack of cameras on boundary lines is a problem in these situations. VARs and referees are making decisions without all the necessary information.
     
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  8. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good shot. The TV feed didn't show anything close to that clear.
     
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Easy DOGSO in CIN/DC 52'.
     
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting decision to not stop the game due to injury in Austin. 38' minute an Austin attacker goes down at the edge of the 6 yard box after stubbing his foot into the ground. Stays down holding his ankle as the ball is cleared. Understandable to not stop the game at this point. But Austin immediately regains possession and comes right back into the box on the same side as the downed player. The Rapids manage to play the ball out for a corner.

    What would have happened if the cross got through though? The Rapids keeper would have had to go on/over the downed Austin player to make a play on it. Seems like that's a case where a stoppage for injury would be called for, no?
     
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  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would have been a super awkward offside call!
     
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  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    SKC : DAL
    DAL is certainly time wasting up 1 on the road and in ET.
    25 sec or so on dead balls. Keeper adjusting ball multiple times on GK, changing players on throws, etc.

    But not a chance in hell I’m giving a caution for delay when the home crowd is counting out loud at each stoppage.
     
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was a tough second half for Chilowicz but he probably handled the end about as well as he could. Only major issue from me is the diving yellow to KC.
     
  14. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Wow, They just trashed the referee post match
     
  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/31/21

    Seattle Sounders vs San Jose Earthquakes
    Lumen Field (5PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Chris Elliott
    AR2: TJ Zablocki
    4TH: Matt Franz
    VAR: Carol Anne Chenard
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    New York Red Bulls vs New England Revolution
    Red Bull Arena (6PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Jeffrey Swartzel
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Tori Penso
    VAR: Alan Kelly
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    FC Cincinnati vs D.C. United
    TQL Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Rosendo Mendoza
    AR1: Eric Boria
    AR2: Jeremy Kieso
    4TH: Greg Dopka
    VAR: Ismir Pekmic
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    Inter Miami CF vs CF Montréal
    DRV PNK Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Victor Rivas
    AR1: CJ Morgante
    AR2: Tyler Wyrostek
    4TH: Brandon Stevis
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Houston Dynamo vs Real Salt Lake
    BBVA Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Jeff Hosking
    4TH: Kevin Broadley
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Sporting Kansas City vs FC Dallas
    Children’s Mercy Park (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Cory Richardson
    AR2: Ryan Graves
    4TH: Matthew Corrigan
    VAR: Malik Badawi
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Austin FC vs Colorado Rapids
    Q2 Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: Alyssa Nichols
    VAR: Alejandro Mariscal
    AVAR: Adam Garner

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs Minnesota United
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Lukasz Szpala
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Mike Rottersman
    4TH: Baldomero Toledo
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Diego Blas
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The game-tying PK for Vancouver is worth a watch. I think it’s one of those penalty area incidents where you might get up to four different opinions (penalty, attacking foul, dive, no call).
     
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  17. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Who would you guys expect next to get their MLS center debut?
     
  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I could support two of those opinions in my head, at least, and neither is "penalty," but I guess we'll see what PRO thinks.
     
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  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We might not. No review. If PRO believes the lack of review was correct, even if it was a bad penalty, not sure we’d learn that publicly.
     
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  20. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that's true. They've been talking about a few calls lately that weren't reviewed, but no guarantees.
     
  21. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I was a little shocked there wasn’t at least an OFR. I guess in Gonzalez’s eyes it wasn’t a clear and obvious error... but I have to agree with @ManiacalClown that penalty is not one of the opinions that I saw when watching that play.
     
  22. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SoccerMan94043, jarbitro and GlennAA11 repped this.
  24. Thug Mentality

    May 30, 2011
    Pretty similar scenario in USL last night (1:05)



    In both instances (VAN and SAC) it looks like the attacker creates a foul for himself by tripping the defender.
     
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  25. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No matter what PRO decides on this particular incident, this is always less likely to be reviewed than a scenario where there's absolutely no contact or where the referee didn't realize there was a substantive touch on the ball.

    I would expect at absolute minimum that PRO will have preferred this penalty not have been given based on my own recollection of how they've interpreted prior calls, but I certainly couldn't say that with any authority. It's my gut feeling.

    "Clear and obvious error" is a higher bar. I felt it reached that bar, but to be honest my track record in that department, while better than the layman, is well below that of the professionals.
     

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