2021 MLS Week 14 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/20/21

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs Houston Dynamo
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Ian McKay
    AR2: TJ Zablocki
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Brian Dunn2

    07/21/21

    Columbus Crew vs Nashville
    Lower.com Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Rosendo Mendoza
    AR1: Brian Poeschel
    AR2: Jeffrey Swartzel
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Chico Grajeda
    AVAR: Claudiu Badea

    Inter Miami CF vs New England Revolution
    DRV PNK Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Brooke Mayo
    4TH: Kevin Broadley
    VAR: Christina Unkel
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    New York City FC vs CF Montréal
    Red Bull Arena (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Ryan Graves
    4TH: Joshua Encarnacion
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    Toronto FC vs New York Red Bulls
    BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Silviu Petrescu
    AR1: Matthew Nelson
    AR2: Kevin Klinger
    4TH: Ramy Touchan
    VAR: Carol Anne Chenard
    AVAR: Gianni Facchini

    Chicago Fire vs D.C. United
    Soldier Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Jose Da Silva
    AR2: Andrew Bigelow
    4TH: JC Griggs
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    FC Cincinnati vs Atlanta United
    TQL Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Tori Penso
    AR1: Eric Boria
    AR2: Jeffrey Greeson
    4TH: Baldomero Toledo
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Sporting Kansas City vs San Jose Earthquakes
    Children’s Mercy Park (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Tyler Wyrostek
    4TH: Lukasz Szpala
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Colorado Rapids vs FC Dallas
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9PM ET)
    REF: Jon Freemon
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Cory Richardson
    4TH: Alyssa Nichols
    VAR: Matt Franz
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    Real Salt Lake vs LA Galaxy
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Kevin Stott
    AR1: Jeff Hosking
    AR2: Diego Blas
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Brian Dunn

    Portland Timbers vs Los Angeles FC
    Providence Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Victor Rivas
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Alejandro Mariscal
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak
     
    MassachusettsRef repped this.
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Freemon was wearing a bright pink/orange wristband tonight which was really distracting whenever a card came out, made it look like he was going for a red card.
     
  3. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Joe Dickerson has had kind of a rough stretch of games here when it comes to game-critical decisions. I think this is his third week in a row with either a red card or penalty kick overturned by VAR or the review panel.

    How does missing a game-critical call impact your assessments when it's able to be corrected by VAR?
     
  4. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Increasingly enjoying Victor Rivas' performances. He's looking increasingly confident out there in bigger games.
     
    Thegreatwar, GoDawgsGo, RefIADad and 2 others repped this.
  5. Thug Mentality

    May 30, 2011
    Didn't notice it once. Though I do wish he had given a yellow for the first foul 20 seconds in.
     
  6. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Lukasz Spala has had two games with records being broken. Highest DC United win and fastest MLS hatrick.
     
  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It at least used to be true that you lost marks for missing the call, but got some of them back for fixing with VAR.

    (I don't know that the "reversal" by the review panel has any direct affect--that process is not particularly pure. While I would imagine that usually when reversed (OK, suspension rescinded . . .) the powers-that-be responsible for ref evaluation would agree it was a missed KMI--but I'm not convinced that is always the case.)
     
  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought he was very good in the Atlanta-New England game. Had a strong presence in that game despite having Arena and Heinze on the sidelines.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has the navy Capelli jersey gone the way of the the grey Adidas ones circa 2013 or so? I don't think we've seen them since the first few weeks of the season. MLS site has all the kit matchups since Week 7 and it's green or light blue in every single match.
     
  10. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    Stay tuned. Big changes coming
     
    RefIADad repped this.
  11. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/22/21

    Orlando City vs Philadelphia Union
    Exploria Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Jeremy Hanson
    AR2: Eric Weisbrod
    4TH: Kevin Broadley
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Austin FC vs Seattle Sounders
    Q2 Stadium (9:30PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Peter Balciunas
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson
     
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    #12 Sport Billy, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
    Watching the ATX:SEA match.
    I’ve reached the point, as a fan, that I’d rather have goals rather than technically correct offside.

    ~edit~
    As a ref, I understand the desire to be correct, but the current system has too many flaws.

    AR should keep flag down until after play complete and then AR flags if he thinks it was off.

    VAR reviews one time only at full speed only and they determine whether the call/non-call at full speed was clear and obvious error.

    if clear and obvious error, reverse call. if not, call stands.
     
  13. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    This was the first time I can remember where the CR appeared to make the offside determination at the monitor (on the disallowed Austin goal), rather than the VAR official in the booth.

    Maybe my memory is a bit hazy, but I don't think I've seen that before....
     
  14. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    In MLS, any time VAR believes the on-field offside decision on a goal is incorrect, they recommend a referee review, and the CR goes to the monitor. This isn't true in (most? virtually all?) other professional leagues - in those leagues, if the VAR says the decision is incorrect, it's changed without review.
     
  15. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Got it....thanks for the clarification....
     
  16. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was there a double touch on the kick off that got “overlooked” in the PHI v ORL match. A buddy posted a video of it which I can’t share on another group I read.

    Sure seems like they let this one go for TV purposes.
     
  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I'm pretty sure this is only in MLS. It isn't consistent with the standards, but MLS decided to do it, primarily for optics/selling the call
     
    Thegreatwar repped this.
  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    That is really quite a leap. I think that is one of those things that is easy to miss as it isn't a focal point. Asserting that the R is deliberately ignoring to make TV happy is a really big piling of assumptions.
     
  19. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It wasn’t missed. He made them retake the kick. It was acknowledged and given a retake.
     
  20. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    While I sympathize with the idea, it's wholly implausible. One full speed review is just unrealistic because of what angles they are looking at, etc. Really bad misses would still be missed with that model. I think MLS has the best model right now--no lines, has to be clear without magic lines that the AR was wrong. I think it is the best way of really being focused on clear errors--I don't see any chance that something less than that will ever happen--if we go to less it would be abolishing VAR entirely (and I can't see that, either).

    If you're suggesting greater delays by ARs on flags than we have now, I think that is a really, really bad idea.
     
    Thegreatwar repped this.
  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Huh. I still wouldn't assume that was for TV. What evidence is there for that at all other than wild conspiracy theories? I think it more likely that either the R was startled as it was unusual and just made a mistake or there was another issue (hadn't whistled yet?). But if it was an error, that's a pretty huge miss.
     
  22. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Making a mountain out of a molehill here, folks.

    Yes, the whistle blew, and Nani technically took the kickoff, but look at all the players. *No one moves* for several seconds.

    There was clearly confusion. Why? I dunno, but it appeared mutual. Further, no one on Philadelphia is asking for or expecting the ball to restart. They don't look aggrieved, just perplexed. What is the benefit in giving an IFK, however technically correct, versus just retaking the kickoff without ambiguity? Is there some great injustice here I'm not considering?
     
  23. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wish I had the video. The whole thing plays out very strange. Like it’s clear everyone Kind of realizes this is a really dumb mistake by Nani.
     
  24. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Other than it being the law and there really isn’t an excuse not to call it. No. But then you could make that argument on almost every small stupid mistake players make.

    I’m going to sound like I’m tilting at windmills but these kind of things are why when this stuff happens at the grassroots level no one knows that to do. Just make the call, laugh at Nani and move on.

    There’s just as little injustice in taking away the kick off by awarding the free kick as there is in not taking it away. The difference is one follows the law.
     
  25. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    There seems to be a lot of buzz words here without any consistency. How is a freeze frame of the kick point and OSP that’s visible to the naked eye not a clear and obvious error? Do you think the team that loses on this goal will accept something that is obvious with the still shot not being called because you couldn’t tell with a full speed run through? This forum (and all of Twitter) is littered with fans, players, and coaches complaining about calls and second guessing officials. The resolution shouldn’t be to take away the ones that can be unequivocally shown
     

Share This Page