UEFA Euro 2020: England Tournament Thread [R]

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, May 14, 2021.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    IMO Southgate was successful in creating an elite performance culture within the squad, even if I don't agree with him tactically. That's the main difference to the previous "golden generation".

    The current england team has a clear tactical blueprint which it can execute to a very high level, and everyone understands their role and executes on it.

    The 2004 team was easily good enough to win the tourney with a bit more luck, but it completely lacked the ability to impose a tactical schema on the game.

    Especially if you don't have a coherent midfield, you can't manage games.

    I think the best criticism I have seen to date of the final comes from Cox at the Athletic. Southgate's team just wasn't good enough in the transitions after the first 20mins. If you are going to play so defensively, you need your defensive pressures to lead to sharp counters to relieve pressure - that stopped happening and then England couldn't get out of their half.
     
  2. Stretch Armstrong

    Jan 15, 2004
    Ah correct, France slipped from my memory.

    I don't quite follow this 'names' line of argumentation. I feel the ability of some of these names was inflated by our media, and on top of that, could argue Lampard, Gerrard and to a lesser extent Rooney, all needed to play in the same position.

    Re formations, England played Rooney upfront on his own vs Portugal in 2006 - in the aftermath some in the media said that Sven, by not playing 442 and instead playing Rooney upfront alone, had stamped on Carvalho's balls himself.

    I felt England deserved to win in 2006, and would have were it not for Rooney's injury in 2004. But Portugal were a damn fine side.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Lampard and Scholes (pre-reinvention) in particular. Remember England's midfield looked tight in '02 with Scholes+Butt, which actually was balanced and high quality
     
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  4. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    It's most certainly is an organisation, an extremely well funded and platformed one. There is of course the broader and more vaguely defined political movement of the same name, as well as the various splinter organisations.

    The American BLM political organisation to which she is presumably referring is quite explicit about being a Marxist, anti-Capitalist movement that would like the state to institute a policy of race-based reparations.

    Their intentions are clearly not the issue. If they were, then every other anti-racist initiative would have received significant opposition as well.
     
  5. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002

     
  6. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    The statement "Black Lives Matter" is not the same as the movement of the same name, which came later.
    It's perfectly possible to distinguish between the two, unless you have no desire to.

    Back in the 80s, most people were able to tell the difference between protecting animals and middle aged guys on steroids pretending to hit each other, depsite both using the term WWF.
     
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  7. Stretch Armstrong

    Jan 15, 2004
    Indeed - I seem to remember Pele chose Butt as his player of the tournament, apparently thinking it was Gerrard.
     
  8. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    This only serves to prove my point.
     
  9. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Kick it Out also found the same regarding the abuse of players during the club season. I don't know their research could control for VPNs but if you look at the handles that post a lot of this abuse they seem quite obviously foreign. I'm not sure that you average knuckle dragger English moron is the type to create a fake handle using Arabic. Trolls aside, our racists that are thick enough to post this stuff online are unsophisticated. I'd expect most of it to come from abroad given how global the Premier League, English football and international football.

    We still have to sort out our own idiots though.
     
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  10. Stretch Armstrong

    Jan 15, 2004
    It's a good point. It actually felt reminiscent to me of England Portugal 2004 in this respect. England penned in with no out ball.

    But clearly Southgate had offensive weapons on the bench to change this, not sure Sven did, although he should have made a better fist of controlling the centre of the pitch with the options he had.
     
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  11. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    #7236 hussar, Jul 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
    I think that 2006 4-5-1 was a forced change because of the injury of Owen, and because Sven only took 3 real forwards to Germany, and a 17 year old kid, when Dean Ashton was playing in the form of his life. This stupid decision still hurts after those years.

    Portugal were nothing special, it was another occasion when a team with fantastic individuals never lived up to their promise: they scraped through into semis relying on individual brilliance and massive shithousery. I was glad when France threw them out. To be fair, that world cup was one of the worst I can remember, the football was awful except that Zidane show against Brazil and a few dramatic moments in the quarter/semi finals. And sadly England played some of their most turgid games too.
     
  12. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member+

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    I think Jermain Defoe and Darren bent had more right to be annoyed than Ashton......Defoe actually spoke about it on the podcast with Carragher last week.

    Saying how he was flying in training, as was there as a reserve, and all the players were saying he should speak to the manager to egt him to change his mind. Said when squad was announced he was gutted, but then phoned Darren Bent to congratulate him and he said he hadn't been picked either!
     
  13. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    Yeah I know they were ahead of him, but Ashton was better than both. He could have been a real wildcard back then, as he was ridiculously good before his injury, and I thought he was more talented than his rivals.
    But yes, Defoe or Bent would have been also a better solution than Walcott.
     
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  14. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's always been the right-wing tory lie. The want to pretend it's not 'nice, middle-class people like them... they're just supporting the poor' :rolleyes: Like, they give two shits about the working class, of ANY race. They don't and they never will.
     
  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Er... :cautious:
     
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  16. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I must admit, these young men fill me with immense pride at this country... that we can produce young people like that. Their bravery and forbearance is an example to everyone, including me and the people on this thread.

    I'm almost tempted to say we don't deserve them but, tbh, that would be unfair to the vast majority of people who DID applaud them, of ALL races, even in defeat, up and down the country.
     
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  18. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Sad that someone who has played so well in this tournament has to go through that. F*ck the haters, Saka doesn't need to answer to them. I hope he gets applause wherever he goes next season
     
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  19. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    England minutes at Euro 2020 via @Thom_Sampson_ aka Sam Thompson on Twitter

    DEFDE34E-1A78-4649-BE75-C61CC5C3C9CE.png 805E55E3-1A84-4122-9902-093803CCF024.png
     
  20. ESBFC123

    ESBFC123 Member

    Barnsley FC
    England
    Jan 19, 2019
    I think is legitimately the dumbest comment I've seen yet this week.
     
  21. ESBFC123

    ESBFC123 Member

    Barnsley FC
    England
    Jan 19, 2019
    There are three 'forms' of BLM if you will.
    The organisations themselves. American, British, French branches etc.
    The wider socio-political movements carrying forth the 'BLM' message etc.
    Individuals that simply agree with the statement that Black Lives Matter.
    To argue no organisational element exists regarding BLM is willfully ignorant at best.
     
  22. ESBFC123

    ESBFC123 Member

    Barnsley FC
    England
    Jan 19, 2019
    Very uneducated, bigoted and backwards woman.
     
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  23. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Have any journalists asked Southgate about his game management during the second half against Italy?

    Following on from that point, does anyone have confidence that he will learn from this?

    He’s an intelligent bloke. You’ve got to think that he’s capable of critically evaluating his own performance but it was too similar to Croatia at the World Cup and he failed to react.
     
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  24. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    It’s like anything else in life .. under pressure or duress you revert to whatever feels natural .

    He’s a defender through to the core
     
  25. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    It has happened too often to expect much different now. So many times in other games we have ended up with not even one out-ball because every player is in deeper defensive positions. Nothing changes tactically (unless it is like for like changes) until we conceded.

    Since Sunday I’ve been thinking of Japan in the last WC really going for it and being knocked out because they thought that suited them much more than penalties.
     
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