Seleção General Discussion, 2018 and beyond

Tite: 112 gols marcados, 19 sofridos. Saldo de 93.

 

Not that that event was traumatic but that it indicates just how distracting that environment must be (besides how much more it is this week).

I doubt anyone could do much better in those numbers or WDL numbers. In the end though it doesn't matter who is our coach, we'll probably continue to dominate WCQ, we'll always be Copa America favorites and more likely to win it in the more regular it is, the problem will be European competition and we continue to have less and less opportunity to play against UEFA.

 

Caboclo é afastado da Presidencia CBF por 30 dias pelo conselho de ética.

 

CBF mantém Tite na seleção, e jogadores decidem disputar a Copa América

Os jogadores da seleção brasileira já sinalizaram para a CBF a decisão de que irão atuar na Copa América. Mas farão um manifesto com crítica à realização do torneio no Brasil.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/fute...-e-jogadores-decidem-jogar-a-copa-america.htm

 

Se a história for usada como referencia, essa zona na CBF / Seleção com politica é um sinal muito bom pra 2022 ...

 

Well, I guess we're going to need a Copa América thread.

As far as that goes, it looks like Tite has already stated the squad will be the same, with changes only for injury concerns between now and June 10 when the list is due.

Understandable, though it would have been really beneficial to do something more like 2019. (Rest Neymar and some other names and get playing time and call-ups for some alternatives.) I also wonder how that might affect potential Olympics players: Neymar, Weverton and Marquinhos were the potential overage players I saw listed a few weeks ago, and there's also Emerson, Renan Lodi, Douglas Luiz and Vini Jr eligible and used by Jardine before. (Richarlison and Jesus are eligible but have not been called up by Jardine as they were always on the full team.)

As far as the whole week of speculation goes, I am still very curious to see what the players say. I hope they get a solid win tomorrow so the typical idiot pundits don't get distracted by the result.

With Caboclo removed and no other National teams considering boycotting or protesting, everything basically settled down, with the final result being Tite is in a stronger position, the team is more united and maybe it has earned back a tiny bit of the love of fans that have been feeling disconnected from the team for years.

 

The statement made by the players after tonight's game:

https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/fute...sto-contra-copa-america-mas-negam-boicote.htm

TLDR:
They're all against Copa América, some for professional reasons, some for humanitarian reasons.

But they will play because they wouldn't say no to the national team.

Full statement in Portuguese:

"Quando nasce um brasileiro nasce um torcedor. E para os mais de 200 milhões de torcedores escrevemos essa carta para expor nossa opinião quanto à realização da Copa América.

Somos um grupo coeso, porém com ideias distintas. Por diversas razões, sejam elas humanitárias ou de cunho profissional, estamos insatisfeitos com a condução da Copa América pela Conmebol, fosse ela sediada tardiamente no Chile ou mesmo no Brasil.

Todos os fatos recentes nos levam a acreditar em um processo inadequado em sua realização.

É importante frisar que em nenhum momento quisemos tornar essa discussão política. Somos conscientes da importância da nossa posição, acompanhamos o que é veiculado pela mídia e estamos presentes nas redes sociais. Nos manifestamos, também, para evitar que mais notícias falsas envolvendo nossos nomes circulem à revelia dos fatos verdadeiros.

Por fim, lembramos que somos trabalhadores, profissionais do futebol. Temos uma missão a cumprir com a história camisa verde amarela pentacampeã do mundo. Somos contra a organização da Copa América, mas nunca diremos não à seleção brasileira."

 

De esperado ... escrito por accessor e revela pouco. Mas profissionalmente me parece ser jogadores que querem umas férias (o que não sou nada contra).

A verdade é que em um grupo de 23, com jogadores de personalidades diferentes e objetivos diferentes, raramente haverá um consenso. Pra um Neymar, Casemiro que quer descansar porque já estão garantidos na Copa de 22, tem um Gabigol / Paquetá / Fred que ainda estão tentando garantir seu lugar. Isso sem falar em jogadores sem destaque de outros países que veem a Copa America como uma possível vitrine para o exterior.

 

Brazil release a pre-list for the Olympics today. It's a bit of overkill (50 players) but it seems like, just two days away from submitting the roster, they still don't know who will be released by their clubs.

Weverton, Marquinhos and Neymar were the original choices for over-24 players, but their clubs said no. The list also includes other players at Copa América, even though those players probably won't be released. The rest of the list looks like it is made of most of the players Jardine has worked with in recent years.

Among the over-24 options on the list is Fernandinho, which I actually think is a good idea. He would probably be motivated to win and to lead a young team to go out on a positive note, as he's not likely to be on the national team again.

 

Flamengo also said no to Pedro joining.

 

Tite has been the head coach for 5 years:

https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...neymar-tite-cinco-anos-camisa-homenagem.ghtml

 

Romario looking ripped at 55. I guess it's never too late to start liking training and hitting the gym.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQq0Ho0...d&ig_rid=2b3d7892-22d8-4be6-a244-bb6925c77399

 

Looks like Olympic squads (both men and women), will be allowed to call up 4 more players to make it 22 total.

Safest bet would be one more left-back, one more central defender, one more midfielder and one more winger/forward for us.

https://ge.globo.com/olimpiadas/fut...ta-da-olimpiada-de-18-para-22-jogadores.ghtml

 

This is a little premature, but I've been looking at Tite's call-ups since the World Cup to see how likely it is that new names will be added before Qatar and now that we are in the semis, we know more or less how many matches and how many call-ups remain.

• 2 Copa América games: a semi and either a final or 3rd place game
• 12 World Cup qualifiers (5 - 6 call-ups), including 2 against Argentina, Chile and Colombia, 1 against other CONMEBOL opponents
• 6 friendlies (3 call-ups) and 2 pre-WC friendlies (with the WC roster already defined)

The truth is, there won't be anywhere near enough tests and new call-ups to satisfy most critics. He has actually tested a ton of midfielders since WC 2018. The areas where he hasn't tested as much are right-back/left-back and forward.

So, I'll go over each position based on the current call-up briefly to encourage discussion and see what other people might be thinking:

GK: Unless one of them is injured it will be Alisson, Ederson, Weverton. Maybe one of the Olympic guys gets some time with the squad to develop a fourth option instead of using Neto or other veterans Tite has called before.

RB: Dani Alves, Danilo, unless Dani Alves just can't make it. Emerson has reportedly made a good impression, so that means he's the choice if Dani Alves can't make it.

CD: Marquinhos, Éder Militão, Thiago Silva, Felipe. I think there's a good chance Tite keeps this set and that would not be bad, but personally I kind of hope Thiago Silva gets replaced. The next options are probably Lucas Veríssimo, Diego Carlos and Olympic age players Jardine has used, including Gabriel, Lyanco, Ibanez, Nino etc. I don't see much experimentation here, just the occasional different fourth choice depending on availability and form.

LB: Renan Lodi, Alex Sandro. I think this is also set. I hope Arana and maybe Caio Henrique if he is in form get some time with the team, but it's clear Tite likes what he has right now. My biggest concern is Lodi's form, I could see him losing his spot if one of the other options can provide the offensive variation that he is used for.

This is a wall of text (yay, ombak is back! I'm sure you love it) so I'll stop here and separate the midfield and forward lists since that will be another wall of text.

 

The two areas where people are most concerned are midfield and attack. I am too. But looking at Tite's call-ups, I think there is very little room for new names. I'm going to separate by roles in some cases that I think it can be helpful

D-MID (Cabeça de área): Casemiro, Fabinho. I think this is a guarantee. Fabinho did well in Copa América and I don't see competition for the primarily defensive slot. Both offer great passing, positioning and protection.

MID (Volante/Meia): Douglas Luiz, Fred; this is the sport that frustrates most fans right now. Fred appears to have impressed and the coaching staff already likes Douglas Luiz. People want to see Gerson, but consider that Allan, Bruno Guimarães and Matheus Henrique have all played here for Tite since the WC. So have Felipe Anderson, Matheus Pereira, Walace.. I don't see those coming back, but I also don't see the staff trying too many other options. We'll be lucky if Gerson gets a shot.

O-MID: (Meia/Armador): Lucas Paquetá, Everton Ribeiro; Lucas Paquetá looks like a lock now. Everton Ribeiro I think will get some more call-ups but I don't think he's going to be there in the WC. Coutinho and Arthur are both realistic options here if they return to form. Otherwise, we might see Neymar, or someone like Matheus Cunha take this spot just so Tite can fit in one more forward, depending on what roles everyone can fill in his variations. Claudinho might get a shot but I don't see him or any other new options breaking in unless they are in amazing form.

Wide forwards: Neymar, Richarlison, Vini Jr, Cebolinha, Gabriel Jesus; Neymar, Gabriel Jesus and Richarlison are guarantees. The coaching staff likes Cebolinha, but I think he's fallen back enough that I hope we find a better option. Vini Jr. will go if he has a great season. I could see us taking 5 players here, instead of 4 and only taking one center-forward or 1 attacking midfielder. I think some options he has tried and won't come back are: David Neres, Lucas Moura, Willian. I hope some of the Olympic squad get a shot, especially Antony, maybe Paulinho. Rodrygo could get more shots, but I think he has a long way to go.

FW: Firmino, Gabigol; I like Firmino, but I think he's moving in the wrong direction with Brazil even now that he has had opportunities that are more like his role in Liverpool. I think Gabigol deserves to get more call-ups. If his form continues this year, he deserves to get a shot in more qualifiers. But I really hope we have something. I feel like Pedro is likelier to make it than Gabigol, but I don't know if he's good enough. I am worried about this position. I mean, maybe an unknown like João Pedro (Cagliari) scores 30 goals suddenly next season and gets some attention... but short of some unpredictable breakthrough like that, I expect it will be Firmino + 1 and that 1 could be a winger instead of a center-forward, with Richarlison, Neymar, Gabriel Jesus and others being used here as false nines or other roles instead of having a center-forward.

So, what's my TLDR?

I think the defense - including keepers and d-mids - is basically set. Call-ups outside of the current options have a very tiny chance of making it and will mostly be to replace an aging/injured option (T. Silva, Dani Alves) or a serious drop in form (Renan Lodi).

I want to see Gerson, Bruno Guimarães, Matheus Cunha, Antony, Pedro and maybe a surprise name we haven't seen yet fight for spots in midfield and forward, but realistically I think we'll be lucky to see players break in. We want someone special to step up and show they belong, but that's just the problem, no one really stands out.

I think that, tactically the full-backs coming through the inside channels worked really well in Copa America and the 4-2-4 will be useful against teams that defend but do not press. So options are improving, but personnel won't change much.

A realistic World Cup call-up probably looks like:

Alisson, Ederson, Weverton;
Dani Alves (Emerson), Danilo;
Marquinhos, Militão, Felipe, T. Silva (Diego Carlos);
Alex Sandro, Renan Lodi (?);
Casemiro, Fabinho;
Fred, Douglas Luiz, Paquetá, (Bruno Guimarães/Arthur/Coutinho???);
Neymar, Vini Jr., Richarlison, Gabriel Jesus;
Firmino, Matheus Cunha (Gabigol? Pedro?)

I guess I'll bookmark this and check back in October 2022 and hope to be a little surprised, especially up front.