I don't think there will be enough discussion of this tournament to justify a separate forum (in 2016, with US involvement, traffic was light) but hopefully a catch-all thread will be useful. I'm sure people know there's been a lot going on with this event, including moving it to Brazil within the last week. At this point, I'm not even sure what the referee list looks like. There have been some confirmed changes, but even today one of the appointed referees was only listed as a VAR. So I invite someone else to post something definitive. Otherwise, we'll all learn as we go! Brazil : Venezuela - OSTOJICH (URU) Colombia : Ecuador - PITANA (ARG) Argentina : Chile - ROLDAN (COL) Paraguay : Bolivia - HARO (PER)
Can't say I loved the penalty call in the first match. The attacker very clearly drags his left leg to ensure contact that never would have happened otherwise. But the contact was so obvious and substantial that I guess the referee had to call it? Certainly nothing that VAR could address once given. Truly a case where a player actually put himself at some risk to ensure he would get fouled.
Kind of a comical situation with the goal given via VAR in Colombia v Ecuador. I actually thought it might be onside live, but it ended up looking like a training ground exercise and all the Colombian players immediately accepted the offside flag when it came--no one even bothered celebrating. I think even PItana was surprised to be told it was a good goal. Oh, and Pitana is really good.
CONMEBOL following UEFA's example and having their referees ditch the FIFA badges in favor of their own confederation badges? The pettiness of these confederation is amazing.
I watched only part of the game, but I have to agree. The intensity and “temperature” of the game was quite high, but he was always on top of everything and still managed to let the play flow. I wonder how many UEFA refs could manage such a game successfully, the style and attitudes are quite different.
I wonder how much culture helps Pitana versus how familiarity helps UEFA referees. I haven't run all the numbers, but I know a lot of Colombia players are on European clubs. Probably less so for Ecuador, but my point is that Pitana doesn't see these guys semi-regularly in CONMEBOL club competitions the way that the elite UEFA guys do with guys at the EURO tournament. Does that make sense? UEFA referees breed familiarity and comfort with the guys they see regularly. Pitana is able to do it purely with his own raw interpersonal skills and his understanding of Latin American culture.
I've always wondered what it would be like for UEFA referees to officiate the entire Copa while CONMEBOL referees worked the Euros. To me, it would be a fascinating case study. I think it was @MassachusettsRef who made a reference to how European refs are sometimes given all-South American affairs during the youth World Cups. I distinctly remember him saying something to the effect of Oliver really handling an all-SA match well in the U20 World Cup where Elfath worked the final, which was similar to what Howard Webb did on his way up the ranks to working a senior World Cup final.
Pitana has the advantage that he's also a physically imposing referee which he uses to his advantage, in much the same way that Rene Temmink and Howard Webb were able to do in their hay days.
Fascinating VAR review in the 54th minute. Can kicking a guy between the legs not be a PK because he had gotten a shot off?
I've noticed that in the Copa America they seem to take an eternity on their VAR checks. That penalty should never have taken that long to decide, especially when Roldan went to the monitor. Also had another lengthy stoppage earlier for a VAR check. Roldan doesn't exactly exude confidence in his decision making. He basically left that penalty decision entirely to VAR.
I'm still not uncertain he didn't head that onto his hand on the PK rebound. The one replay seemed to suggest a change in direction of the ball. Maybe they didn't have the camera angle to confirm it.
looked like the guy who scored was in the D when the PK was taken. I presume that's what they were looking at though, but they only gave us one look. this game is quite a foul-fest. I'm glad he's calling them or things would really be out of control
Everyone is taking a long time for VAR checks....remember the USA-Mexico National League final eight days ago....two VAR checks in extra time, each of which took 3-4 minutes....
There's a refereeing exchange going on right now....a Spanish crew is in the Copa America pool, while an Argentinian crew is in the pool for the Euros. Not sure if either crew has gotten a match yet.
While I'm the last to defend VAR, I wouldn't be using CONCACAF as your prime example to illustrate "everyone." CONCACAF is just starting to use VAR and has gone as one would expect. There can be VAR checks and reviews that last too long in almost any competition, but to the original point, CONMEBOL does seem to have very long and drawn out processes compared to UEFA and other domestic competitions. The Paraguay-Bolivia match started with a handball that occurred at 4:15, resulting in a penalty being awarded at 7:48. Simply put, that's unacceptable. You cannot have a VAR check and review take 3:30. Less VAR-related, but then the penalty wasn't even taken until 9:14.
And that lengthy VAR review allowed a 2CT occur at 45 + 9' of the first half because, well, 45 + 9' in the first half is now not as uncommon as it once was.
The second caution was weird. It was gratuitous. It could almost have been SFP/VC on its own, but I guess the force wasn't enough. But then the ref let it go, I guess to maybe apply advantage? And then brought it back, only to then issue the caution/send off once the player was up. I'd love to know when he knew it warranted a caution and when he knew that player already had one. Also, the incident at 45 + 10' which resulted in a caution for the Paraguayan player was, well, perplexing. Watching it live, it looked like SFP by the Bolivian defender. Watching it on replay, I think I still lean toward the foul and caution being against him. How the Paraguayan got the misconduct there... well, I'd invite others to look and offer their opinion.
And now Lalas and Stone are going on in the halftime show about how the refs could VAR that card at halftime and end up giving it to the Bolivian player at the start of the second half instead. Which, WTF?
Ha, that's special. I'm spending my time going back and watching 19' because I missed this half live. Boy, that's an interesting offside decision. The player in the OSP does attempt to play the ball. But is he actually challenging anyone near him for the ball? I'd say no. So does his action impact the ability of an opponent to play the ball? Well, the defender behind him clears it with his head, so again I think I'd say no. I have a really hard time saying it's clearly wrong to allow the penalty to stand. Back on CONMEBOL VAR protocols, I'm confused as to why Haro looked at the offside, then the penalty, then back to the offside. The penalty decision is completely irrelevant if offside is the ultimate decision. To look at offside, then check the penalty, then go back to the offside makes no sense if the ultimate conclusion is "offside." All that said, good thing Dr. Joe was there to offer two suggestions for what the officiating team was looking at... and still being completely wrong.
It seemed like he gave a caution for stepping on the Bolivian's foot (while the Bolivian was lunging in)... looked really odd. Then came the pressure from the players and I wonder how much of a difference it made.