Continuing what I've usually done at the end of each academy season, I like to put out an approximate best 23 for each age group about halfway through the calendar year. A numerical rankings comes at the end of the year. This will be mostly based on potential, considering these players are all still prospects, so if you see a player who is more accomplished not listed and a less accomplished player listed, you should suspect that it's a discrepancy about potential. I wasn't sure which thread to put it in, so I figured I should start a new thread. Maybe I can use it in future years, and input/feedback is welcomed. 2002: GK: Damian Las, Seth Wilson, Hunter Sulte DF: Joe Scally, Julian Gaines, Tayvon Gray, Nico Carrera, Joshua Ramsey, Janson Miller, George Bello, Zackery Farnsworth, Kobe Hernandez-Foster MF: Josh Atencio, Bryang Kayo, Adam Saldana, Mario Penagos, Yunus Musah, Cameron Dunbar, David Rodriguez FW: Gio Reyna, Gianluca Busio, Alfonso Ocampo-Chavez, Ruben Hernandez Starting XI: Las Scally-Gray-Carrera-KHF Atencio-Kayo Musah Dunbar-AOC-Reyna 2003: GK: Eliot Jones, Andrew Cordes, Beckham Sunderland DF: Mauricio Cuevas, Michael Halliday, Jalen Neal, Casey Walls, Marcus Ferkranus, Justin Che, Jonathan Gomez, Anton Sorenson MF: Danny Leyva, Elton Chifamba, Alejandro Alvarado, Tarun Karumanchi, Jack McGlynn, Moses Nyeman, Caden Clark, Sam Sarver, Chris Garcia FW: Ricardo Pepi, Roald Mitchell, Fabrizio Bernal Comment: This was by far the hardest age group to pick 23 players. I'm well aware I left out some very good players from this list. This was the only age group I left out some players from the 23 that I rate really highly. Starting XI: Jones Cuevas-Neal-Walls-Gomez Chifamba Nyeman-Alvarado Clark Pepi-Sarver 2004: GK: Jeff Dewsnup, Chris Brady, Gabe Slonina DF: Erik Duenas, Justin Reynolds, Antonio Leone, Nigel Prince, Alejandro Cano, Cody Baker, Tristan Viviani, Noah Allen MF: Brandan Craig, Jackson Gilman, Zach Booth, Efrain Morales, Kenan Hot, Quinn Sullivan, Amari Salley, Leo Torres, Evan Rotundo FW: Dantouma Toure, Fede Oliva, Christian Torres Comment: I'm leaving out players I've yet to see play, so Malick Sanogo is not included. Starting XI: Dewsnup Duenas-Leone-Prince-Viviani Craig-Booth Salley-Sullivan-Torres Toure 2005: GK: Emmanuel Ochoa, Gavin Beavers, Levi Bieber DF: Angel Bernal, Joseph Buckley, Nati Clarke, Demitrious Tanks, Haroun Conte, Matiwos Rumley, Gabriel Velez, Carlos Diaz MF: Bryan Moyado, Reed Baker-Whiting, Brooklyn Raines, Francis Jacobs, Gage Akalu, Felipe Valencia, Alexis Luna, Bryan Arellano FW: Christopher Thaggard, Marcelo Mazzola, Robert Wilcott, Guy Michaeli Starting XI: Ochoa Bernal-Tanks-Clarke-Conte Moyado Baker Whiting-Raines Valencia-Thaggard-Akalu 2006: GK: Andrew Rick, Alexander Yagudayev, Luke Peacock DF: Matthew Schenfeld, Ari Dejman, Kelvin Da Costa, Alex Perez, Dane Agustin, Agnaldo Germano, Brian Alanis, Connor Stout MF: Matthew Corcoran, Jaden Francis, Luis Moreno, Lucas De Paulo, Owen Presthus, Myles Perkovich, Moises Arciniega, Izaiah Garza FW: Matt Routzahn, Adrian Buri, Bajung Darboe, Patrick Shaw Starting XI: Rick Schenfeld-Da Costa-Germano-Alanis Corcoran-Francis Perkovich-Presthus-Darboe Routzahn Comment: I'm leaving out players I've yet to see play, so the two kids at Barcelona (Adrian Simons Gill and Diego Kochen) are not included.
Awesome rosters! Are you omitting 03' Bryan Okoh because you haven't seen him play enough or because you rate the others in that 23 higher?
I haven’t seen Okoh play, but he’s the captain of his Swiss youth age group. I don’t think it’ll be easy to get him to switch. I’d be more willing to include someone like Sanogo in our system because it seems wide open who he’ll play for.
I’m a fan of this exercise. Will play 4-3-3 like USYNT’s historically play but will either do 6/8/8 or 6/8/10 depending on the strengths of the age group. Will exclude dual nats we haven’t brought in or I have heard are unlikely to recruit 2001 (very good age group, lacks a true star talent (Balogun) but a ton of europe potential quality) GK: David Ochoa (John Pulskamp) RB: Bryan Reynolds (Julian Araujo) CB: Owen Otasowie (George Campbell) CB: Leo Sepulveda (Jacob Akanyirige) LB: Travian Sousa (Stuart Ritchie) 6: Aidan Morris (Leon Flach) 8: Tanner Tessmann (Taylor Booth) 8: Cole Bassett (Bryce Duke) RW: Konrad De La Fuente (Cam Harper) LW: Uly Llanez (Jose Gallegos) ST: Matthew Hoppe (Charlie Kelman) 2002 (was our weakest age group, then Yunus joined and Busio became a 6…now it’s our second weakest group) GK: Chituru Odunze (Damien Las) RB: Joe Scally (Tayvon Gray) CB: Nico Carrera (Jonathan Tomkinson) CB: Hayden Sargis (Jansen Miller) LB: George Bello (John Tolkin) 6: Gianluca Busio (Kobe Hernandez-Foster) 8: Bryang Kayo (Mario Penagos) 8: Yunus Musah (Adam Saldana) RW: Efrain Alvarez (Cam Dunbar) LW: Gio Reyna (Andres Jasson) ST: Ruben Hernandez (AOC) 2003 (our strongest and deepest group except the GK’s. Multiple very good pro’s not included) GK: ????????????? RB: Mauricio Cuevas (Michael Halladay) CB: Justin Che (Jalen Neal) CB: Bryan Okoh (Casey Walls) LB: Jonathan Gomez (Anthony Sorenson) 6: Daniel Leyva (Daniel Edelman) 8: Moses Nyeman (Jack McGlynn) 10: Caden Clark (Paxten Aaronson) RW: Kevin Paredes (Dante Sealy) LW: Cade Cowell (Edwin Azcona) ST: Ricardo Pepi (Patrick Weah) 2004 (a couple very good talents and a star talent in Malick Sanogo, the worst YNT age group) GK: Gabe Slonina (Chris Brady) RB: Erik Dueñas (Devin Tanton) CB: Brandan Craig (Efrain Morales) CB: Antonio Leone (Sam Jones) LB: Caleb Wiley (Noah Allen) 6: Allan Rodriguez (Jack Wagoner) 8: Zach Booth (Rokas Pukstas) 10: Evan Rotundo (Quinn Sullivan) RW: Dantouma Toure (Christian Torres) LW: Fede Oliva (Leo Torres) ST: Malick Sanogo (Austin Brummett) 2005 (a lot of very good talent, no one emerged in the star tier yet) GK: Emmanuel Ochoa (?????) RB: Nati Clarke (Million Evans) CB: Diego Rosales (Grayson Dettoni) CB: Matteo Pinilla (Josh Maher) LB: Curtis Ofori (Nolan Norris) 6: Reed Baker-Whiting (Diego Lopez) 8: Brooklyn Raines (Noel Buck) 10: Julio Benitez (Sergio Oregel) RW: Felipe Valencia (Chris Thaggard) LW: Serge Ngoma (Sebastian Carbajal) ST: Daniel Sebhatu (Isaiah Chisholm) 2006 (more potential star talent than every age group combined outside of 03’s. Best midfield for a YNT age group ever, you could do another 2 strings for their midfield that would still boss most of the other age groups. Outside of Bajung Darboe a very poor forward line for a YNT) GK: Julian Eyestone (Diego Kochen) RB: Matthew Schenfeld (Sam Sery) CB: Tyler Hall (Gabrial Brandan) CB: Javen Romero (Alex Perez) LB: Brian Alanis (Connor Stout) 6: Matthew Corcoran (Mark Cajamarca) 8: Bento Estrela (Aaron Heard) 8: Adrian Gill (Morris Spaltenstein) RW: Myles Perkovic (Izaiah Garza) ST: Ty Moore (Gael Medrano) LW: Bajung Darboe (Moises Arciniega) If I ranked the age groups it would go like this 2003 2006 2001 2005 2002 2004
Kobe as a left back over Bello is valid. Sadly it looks like Wolfsburg have been trying to concert him to a 6
Thanks for doing this, both of you. Given the level of talent the National Team is rising to, it seems to play a major role, a player is going to need a ton of upside (or to play a weak position). What players here have the potential to be stars on the level of a Pulisic, Reyna, Dest, Adams, McKennie, perhaps Richards?
I think we need to address some context to the players listed. For me, in regards to talent, there is a gap between Pulisic/Gio and the other guys you listed like McKennie, Adams, Dest, and Richards. Pulisic and Gio are among the top 5-10 players in the world for their age group regardless of position. At their prime when in form they both have the talent to be a top 25 player in the world. The other guys are all very good players but I don’t think they quite have that world class talent For this the bar for consideration that I am setting is are these guys capable of breaking into the USMNT and playing for a good team in a European league. Keep in mind this is strictly potential, quite a few will likely fall off as other players hit their stride as development is not linear. Also keep in mind that many of these players are not finished products, some have further to go than others but if they piece things together can be USMNT level players 2001 (a very good age group, no superstars though) Julian Araujo Cole Bassett Konrad De La Fuente Leon Flach Matthew Hoppe Uly Llanez Aidan Morris (pending injury recovery) David Ochoa Owen Otasowie (debatable) Bryan Reynolds Tanner Tessmann 2002 (one superstar in Gio, three excellent prospects in Bello, Musah, Busio, a weak age group) George Bello Gianluca Busio Yunus Musah Gio Reyna 2003 (Our deepest age group, lots of Adams/McKennies and a couple potential superstars. I debated on adding more to this group) Paxten Aaronson Justin Che Caden Clark Cade Cowell Mauricio Cuevas Jonathan Gomez Daniel Leyva Jack McGlynn Jalen Neal Moses Nyeman Kevin Paredes Ricardo Pepi Jonathan Perez Dante Sealy Casey Walls 2004 (our weakest age group, major talent in Sanogo but a big gap from these guys to the rest. Covid hit this age group the hardest) Zack Booth Brandan Craig Fede Oliva Evan Rotundo 2005 (this age group had 12 players that I debated putting in here but have questions about their games and am waiting to see how they develop. This age group is similar to the 2001’s, a lot of good talent, no superstars) Reed Baker-Whiting Diego Lopez Brooklyn Raines 2006 (a fantastic age group, numerous gifted players with real star potential. Not quite as deep as the 2003’s and the striker/winger talent is suspect) Matthew Corcoran Bajung Darboe Bento Estrela Aaron Heard Javen Romero Matthew Schenfeld
I hate to give a non-answer, but probably 50 or more of them have that potential. Dest was a back up to Jaylin Lindsey on the U-17’s, while McKennie and Richards didn’t even make the U-17’s. There’s a minimum baseline of ability for a player required to have the potential to be that good, but there’s no great way of knowing if the best player or the 8th best player in an individual age group will be one of the stars of the National Team eventually. Take the list here (https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/ussoccer97531s-2020-player-rankings.2113067/), and then add a few who've improved their stock or I hadn't seen play at the time.
It should all be taken with a grain of salt. Some players have that technical and tactical baseline to be elite but will have injuries or be derailed by a bad club situation. It’s a crap shoot but there are players that you can predict with a higher probably based off of the quality they’ve displayed that they’re one of the likely choices
Taking this assessment as a given, I'd philosophically strongly disagree with characterizing the 2001 class as a very good age group and the 2002 class as a weak age group. A national team would much rather have every class be like the 2002 class then every class be like the 2001 class. That's especially true because the players behind Reyna aren't complete scrubs.
When you take a look at the overall player pools from the 2001’s and 2002’s the 2001’s are much much better. The only difference is the 2002’s happen to have Gio and Yunus but you don’t want to place your eggs in that few of baskets, if they get injured then your risking a wasted birth year like the majority of the early 1990’s age groups
If the best '02 were Yunus I'd agree. But as you said earlier Gio is a top 5-10 player in his age group regardless of position. The marginal value of that player far dwarfs the fact that #5-15 in the '01 class might have lower-tier BL1 ceilings while #5-15 in the '02 might have MLS ceilings.
No, that's thought-provoking. I was going down the path that another poster went later in this thread. I think the standard to make and significantly help the team is going to be rising reasonably quickly ... to the point that this will probably be the point most in history of the USMNT that we're going to see this level of access to the national team for young good players. It's a fun time, but at some point, for USMNT purposes, the focus will shift more on upside. But a bit to your point ... that is harder to measure than I think maybe I assume. After watching Brenden Aaronson tonight, I have less confidence in pinning down potential. In 2018, I probably would not have even known his name much less thought of him as "high potential" -- and I suspect a lot of people who followed closer would not have pegged him particularly as such.
I think that’s why it’s important to limit who could potentially be a star to a small group of players we focus on as our top young prospects, but also account for those players who didn’t have that upside but developed so well that they may not be stars yet can come pretty close to it as secondary players to also focus on, to a lesser extent.
It's also why a full throttle academy system is so important. Aaronson is the definition of a late bloomer who was undersized but has shifty skills and a good brain. He goes to college if he's from anywhere other than the tristate area IMO.
Agree. It reminds me of Clemson's 2014 recruiting class...in hindsight it legit stunk outside of one player, but that player was Deshaun Watson. Watson was the best player in that entire class by a large margin at the most impactful position. You could have another class with 22 really good players, but Clemson likely wouldn't trade Watson for all of them. Not apples to apples with soccer as soccer doesn't have a position way more valuable than others, but when judging a class based on impact to a national team, 1 legit star player is worth more than 20 really good players, but not elite. If you are looking at it more holistically than simple national team level than quantity is more important when looking at classes.
Those who starting their lists and predictions from U-13 or something are getting emotionally attached to their early picks and see kids like Busio/Cowell/Aaronsons as personal offense. Exactly like Kleibans and Wes. Cowell is something like forward #20 in his year group on one of those lists. Tells you everything you need to know.
Are you not the one getting emotionally attached? I’m not sure any of those players you mention have made it, except Brenden Aaronson, who is not relevant to this discussion. People, you included, were acting cocky about being right about Cowell because he had 5 G+A in his first three games of the season. Some suggested not to be so cocky about it because he wasn't playing at a 1.66 G+A per game pace. Now he has none in the last five games. It doesn't mean he's bad because he's had a few games without big contributions. He might turn into a great player and you might be right, but you don't need to be arrogant because people disagree with you. He hasn't made it, neither has Busio. Neither has a player I rank higher than you or someone else ranks higher than both of us. All players at this age, except the ones who’ve actually made it to the top club levels and the National Team, could pan out and they might not. You are allowed to think differently, but claiming someone is leaving out those players because they are emotionally attached to be against them is odd. I personally have no emotional attachment to any of these players. I don’t personally know any of them. What would be my emotional attachment? I don’t think seeing something different than you do on what are unproven players is emotional attachment. In fact, it's weird that you claim its emotional attachment to be more informed. Wouldn't it work the other way? If you are less informed and you make decisions based on less information, sometimes inadequate information and only a small snapshot, wouldn't a strong opinion be based on what you've emotionally attached yourself to?
This is a really interesting conversation in the context of the national team. In an academy context, it's a no brainer, the 02 class is a great class. If you have one guy you can sell for $40 million, it's a well above average year for anyone. But if you're a club, you have the option to buy and sell players. Obviously the USMNT doesn't have the option to sell Gio Reyna for $40 million and buy five $8 million dollar players. And that's the problem, we'd be better tomorrow if we could do that. Maybe someday we'll be good enough where this stops being true, but right now we'd be much better off as a team if we could improve the bottom 4 guys on the field by selling the 2nd or 3rd best guy on the field. We can't sell Gio Reyna, but OTOH, the USMNT team is comprised of 10-15 different years of players. If we had 15 classes of players each with 1 great player, we'd be a very good team. So I guess by the standard of "if every class was like this, would we be better or worse as an NT?", '02 is a very good class.
That matters more and more as the players get older, but when they're 15 you'd like to see a group of a lot of depth. So I think it's a sliding scale. I think that makes it difficult to compare different age groups because grading them at different ages is somewhat of a silly exercise.