The Red Baron: Josh Sargent at Norwich City

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. felloveranddidanadu

    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Dec 12, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Frogs
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That play alone gets him more minutes from me if I'm coach. A really huge, curious play for a striker. Maybe we need to play with a faaaaalse false 9 where John Brooks steps up into midfield, everyone else bombs forward and Sargent covers for him on D as a roaming stopper? I think, I think that could work. Get A-aron-son buzzing around too and you've got yourself a stew
     
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  2. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    think play in question shows why sargent will get a lot of chances to rebuild his confidence- he has soccer instincts
     
  3. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that's our cb/am hybrid forward
     
  4. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Juggling on youtube is technique and I cannot be persuaded otherwise.
     
  5. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    This guy begs to differ, but what did he ever do in football . . . :confused:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    That was before youtube and you know the Dutch - drama-queens.
     
  7. CZM4

    CZM4 Member

    United States
    Jun 10, 2020
     
  8. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    He deserves such a move. Damn shame they're not in the CL or EL this season.
     
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  9. YankatOxford

    YankatOxford Member+

    Oct 15, 2007
    The fact that they aren’t in those competitions is why the move might actually happen. And it’s a club with a long history of contributing U.S. players, including Keller, Bradley, and Johnson.
     
  10. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For those using Sarge's xG stat as justification that he's doing fine... please note that Schalke 04 also was dead on with meeting xG last season. Schalke had 24.72 xG and had 25 goals. And they did just fine, as we all know!

    Anyway, my point? I'm learning more about these different metrics and found this interesting. As others have said here, taking one single stat and "hanging your hat" on it in trying to support an argument is pretty naive. xG taken alone simply provides no context of the big picture.
     
  11. Monarch Bay Beachbum

    Apr 5, 2004
    The OC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We had a team from England come to the OC and play a few area teams a couple of years in a row. The 1st year I was very worried before our 1st game as there was a young man on the sideline juggling and doing amazing tricks with the ball. I started speaking with a couple of the Dads from England and said I was worried that we may be over-matched. The first dad told me that the boy had just won a National competition sponsored by David Beckham and was going to be on a tv special when they got back. The second dad chimed in saying not to worry because the boy was terrible at football and could not translate any of his tricks to an actual game.
    He was correct.
     
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  12. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    That man never met Jordan. I remain firm in my beliefs.

    BTW saw some "firm" rumors of Josh to BMG. Hope it's true and hope he crushes it. Seems like a hard-working guy with some skills. Hope he picks up some scoring boots.
     
  13. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Actually, that might work in Josh's favour - and theirs. While they've got a new coach, they've been in group stage European ball in recent seasons - and this season's failure to qualify was a massive disappointment - so there's a squad that's EL or even CL-capable, but with only BL1 and the Pokal to play for. If the team catches fire, the foals could, ahem, canter to a CL place. :confused:

    That'll make it a good place for Josh to land. A good squad and a well-run club that's on the up will generate a good atmosphere and plenty of competition for places, but without the burden of having to carry the attack. Any initial lack of progress or major failures will be away from the spotlight.

    Let's hope it happens
     
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  14. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I'm confused. Doesn't schalke hitting their paltry xG mean that the statistic works? It doesn't mean schalke was good, it means they were expected to score only 25 goals, and they did.

    Thus, if Sargent was expected to hit 5 goals, and did, it means he didn't overperform or underperform the expectation.

    I think that would mean he is on schedule, and those arguing he should've scored more than his xG are arguing against accurate statistical forecasting?
     
  15. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member+

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
    I believe that it's been demonstrated that strikers regularly exceed their xG. xG is not adjusted for position, and you would hope that your striker is more clinical. Also, having a paltry xG itself can't be ignored, because good strikers should be getting into better positions and also creating for themselves a bit. I understand the counterargument -- it's Schalke! -- but still...
     
  16. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    #7891 yurch10, Jun 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
    That's a lot you've posited there. Do you have any links confirming that strikers usually exceed their xG?

    And I'm not sure addressed my question. If schalke hit their xG, how does that have anything to do with Sargent hitting his xG? Seems the only thing that illustrates is that the xG is accurate...

    But as you said, if strikers usually outperform xG, that's better proof that Sargent isn't progressing. I don't really believe that without some proof, but certainly open to the stats/research.

    (edit - looked up some xG stuff on understat, never heard of the site but seems legit. It does seem like the top scorers overperformed their xG. Not sure what that means when considering distribution and St deviation, but I'll accept that it's true more or less.)
     
  17. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    The guy could make the ball do whatever he wanted it to do but he either didn't know what he needed to make the ball do, couldn't identify that under pressure, or both.
     
  18. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member+

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
    My other point is that xG itself is an outcome that he should be judged by. If he has a high xG, it means he is getting shots off and those shots are in dangerous areas. A good striker does that by getting into good spots to receive passes, or beating defenders with pace or dribbling, or whatever. Anyone on Schalke will have a bad xG, but you would like his xG to be higher than you would expect for a striker on a team of that quality. No idea if that is true or not.
     
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  19. DrunkOffPunch

    DrunkOffPunch Member

    United States
    Jul 14, 2020
    Sargent led the team in both npxG and xA.
     
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  20. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess my point is comparing xG to Goals alone doesn’t say much. The stat needs more context. I mean, Sarge’s goals met his xG bit it feels like to me he should have scored more and created more chances.

    I can’t find the Kicker article now that had those Bundesliga team xG stats but the headline mentioned that Bayern was third in goals to xG ratio. They won the BL by a mile because the created a ton of goal chances to start with, even if they weren’t the best at converting.

    Nothing revolutionary here, the point is no single stat tells the story.

    I’m not saying Sarge had a bad season but just it feels like he should have had a few more goals because I think he is capable for sure. I hope like heck he can land somewhere like BMG to show if he is up to that level. He wasn’t good enough to keep Bremen afloat, but not sure what average or above average BL striker could have? Or is Sarge below average? Time will tell. I’m optimistic on Sarge but have more doubts than 1 year ago.
     
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  21. LivingStone

    LivingStone Member

    Barca
    United States
    May 21, 2019

    If he didn't play striker for WB who was terrible, especially towards the end of the season, there is no way BMG will want him. I think he might be BL2. It will be good for his development.
     
  22. DrunkOffPunch

    DrunkOffPunch Member

    United States
    Jul 14, 2020
    If you have 3-4 strikers on the field at the same time they can’t all occupy the same position.
     
  23. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Bulinews (rehashing Bild):

    [​IMG]

    "Borussia Mönchengladbach have concrete interest in Josh Sargent, according to Bild.

    Sargent has just one year left on his contract, so Werder are likely to cash in on him this summer.

    According to Bild, the U.S international should cost around €7-8 million.

    ESPN has previously linked him with Eintracht Frankfurt, Bayer Leverkusen and VfB Stuttgart."

    https://bulinews.com/news/8731/report-gladbach-have-concrete-interest-sargent
     
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  24. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Seems to me the Sarge is a good footballer, but not sure he is actually a striker. He offers something even when he isn't scoring, but I expect strikers to score on the regular. An assist from that spot counts in my scorebook.

    OTOH he offers a lot, and maybe some spot that x/GA's is not the most important metric might be better suited for what he brings to a side.
     
  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    For the 500th time on this thread - he's 21.

    For the 500th time on this thread - everyone relax, he's a striker and he's developing fine.

    Like the move for him, hope it goes through. I also think his versatility should help him get on the field with a better team, since they'll likely have more established striker options. But a step up is the next step in his progression.
     
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