One just wonder that after failing so many times you would learn some lessons and be better, right? But US soccer somehow keeps going in circles and never learn or move forward. The USSF has over 100 years of failure attached to them already, so what's keeping them from evolving and learning how to do soccer properly?
focusing the discussion on Ream just obfuscates the main thread. some of the main posts in this thread are a bit hyperbolic, for sure, but there is something here as well. if you wanna talk about player selection and how much benefit GB gives MLS that is a relevant topic to discuss...but not the main point of this thread, either, although certainly somewhat related.
Because a million MLS fans don't see it the way that 3 or 4 posters on a soccer forum do. Because it was simply a business arrangement for both sides. The game has matured to the point where the arrangement is no longer necessary to guarantee the USSF a lump sum. With the MLS TV contract negotiation coming up and the World Cup on the horizon, both parties can make more money independently. It was always just a business arrangement.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE] the people who follow closely enough to have opinions and post about them online surely don't know more about the sport than soccer moms at MLS games? ok, gotcha. while we're at it...... https://courses.lumenlearning.com/s...pter/the-tyranny-and-triumph-of-the-majority/ Before you respond, please follow the above course on Alexis de Tocqueville and the Tyranny of the Majority.
The original post was a semi coherent rant, so pretty sure there is room for various asides and related strands. Feel free to ignore my contribution if it bothers you so much.
as disorganzed as the writer who made this thrread is with his thoughts.... the idea is a good one. That is what I would like to focus on.... for some reason, instead, posters on this forum prefer to dissect and criticize the errora that posters make.. instead of move the discussion forwards. It does annoy bc I think it is a debate tactic bc of an agenda that people have instead of a genuine interest in collaboration, which would be my prefernce.
the people who follow closely enough to have opinions and post about them online surely don't know more about the sport than soccer moms at MLS games? ok, gotcha. [/QUOTE] That highlighted but just demonstrates your bias and/or ignorance. The demographics of MLS fans aren't much different to those of European clubs. And I'm talking people who show up to watch the matches live. The main demographic is lower income males aged 18-45. The big difference is that there are more women at MLS but again those women fall into the lower income 18-45 age group. They're not soccer Moms. This is a big difference from NASL 1.0 and from the early years of MLS, when they actively pursued soccer Moms and almost failed as a result. In my experience, and I've seen soccer live at over 70 English and Welsh stadiums, there isn't much difference between the makeup of English and MLS crowds.
Soccer fans in the USA do not hold the sport accountable. at all. Fans of soccer in the US are tame, docile farm animals. The men. The women. All of them. Gender neutral, docile, passive and maternalistic. When the recent Euro Super league was just announced...what did Euro fans do? they litterally stormed the clubs involved in protest!! and got it shut down. Can you imagine MLS fans storming a club bc they were unhappy with a new proposal for CONCACAF Champions League? Or for USSF hiring the brother of the President to coach the full national team? Or for choosing an econ guy with zero soccer knowledge as the president of the federation? or for giving JK an extension before the World cup? Etc etc NO! There is zero accountabilty or pressure imposed upon the decision makers in the US in terms of what happens with the sport in the USA. zero. so yeah....call them all "moms" when you are talking about soccer fans in the US....all ready with the orange slices no matter what happens on the field!!!
Yes, that's correct. People who spend hard-earned cash to actually show up at a stadium, sit next to other fans and watch live soccer are showing a higher level of engagement than people just talking about it online. Not only do they have more invested (they're actually paying for the product on the field) but they are also more immersed in the team and the practical goings-on of soccer just by bothering to physically show up. I know "soccer moms" that have personal relationships with players, coaches etc. And of course, if they actually have kids in the system, they are naturally even more invested, given their child's future is at stake. There's a contingent of vocal "outside observers" , that exist almost solely online (because where in real-life could you go to interact with people that don't go to MLS games, but want to complain about MLS? That would be the world's shittiest pub) that really thinks they know more about soccer in general and American soccer specifically than people that actually go to soccer matches and are engaging with the real culture of the sport.
Do other countries have this same disdain for those fans who actually support the domestic club game? One of the oddest things I’ve observed as a sports fan.
Not that I know of. Usually its "for club and country", not "for club or country". I'd suggest a lot of football fans around the world have disdain for the way their federation, league and possibly club are run but that doesn't usually extend to the teams themselves. I mean the Premier League has been slammed for messing up the English NT for decades, until the current generation of hgps emerged, and the English FA slammed for terrible coaching appointments. But that didn't stop people from supporting Premier League teams.
other countries dont have an artifically disneyfied version of soccer that places commodification of everything connected to the sport front and center. at the expense of that country's national team. other countries dont have a fascistic soccer league that dictates to them everything about the sport in their country like MLS does....and enforces wacked out rules that put profit above everything....while also having more money than almost every other league......at the expense of that country's national team. i dont know.........I'm not bagging on MLS fans in particular. More soccer fans of the sport in the USA. that dont hold any of the stakeholders accountable. Bottomline....fans vote with their money.....and if they stop voting for the product they are given the producers 0f the product will be forced to change it. I dont really care about MLS, though.....only as it effects the USMNT...this thread is about that. The national team. and so....whether or not someone attends MLS matches or not...really gives them no more of a right than others to have an opinion on these issues.
MLS fans never hold their teams and the league accountable. NEVER. Never have they forced change on the league on things the fans were upset about... never guys. Not once. Not once let alone multiple times. Never. (sarcasm btw) Truth is fans have actually held MLS's foot to the fire as well as their teams on multiple occasions and came out the victors. The thing is a good chunk of those guys are club before country and are more in line with the hardcore fans from around the globe than the vocal social media USMNT fans are. As loud and annoying as you guys are in your echo chamber, you have no leverage. Partly because your just a bunch of nut jobs. But also partly because your freaking clueless and lack perspective. You can scream as loud as you want on the internet, it isn't going to change anything because no one takes you seriously. And rightfully so.
If MLS fans ever held anyone's feet to the fire, my city would probably still have its MLS club. Oh, wait a second...
I suspect this only worked because MLS allowed Hobo FC in austin to jumpstart. Thanks for sending us your coach though! He's aceballs.
Have you seen England fans storming Premier League headquarters, or boycotting matches demanding change because they haven't won a trophy in 55 years? Did you see Dutch or Italian fans storming their FAs, or boycotting matches when they failed to qualify for the 2018 World Cup? So why do you expect this from MLS supporters? OK we booed Bradley and Altidore at every opportunity though I think that was a little unfair on Jozy. MLS has listened actually listened to supporters. They got rid of stupid of Nike driven Americanized rules, whacky team names and horrible kits. They keep the San Jose Earthquakes legacy alive, allowing time for investors to sort out a stadium solution. They saved the Crew through a national campaign which featured "Save the Crew" banners at stadiums across the country. They saved the Crew again, days after a spectacular rebranding fail. So why aren't fans protesting against what's happening with the NT? Maybe because it's the most talented NT ever. Maybe it's because MLS has produced Richards, McKennie, Reyna, Adams, Aaronson and Steffen. Maybe it's because we've played one competitive match in over a year and won it. As for Berhalter, he's done nothing spectacular but nothing wrong, except the defeat in Canada, which resulted correctly in the demise of Christian Roldan and Michael Bradley. And I'd like to think Berhalter's brother recused himself from selecting the coach and that Stewart made the ultimate decision. I don't believe I'm commoditized or Disneyfied but I do know a spoiled brat when I see one.
Fans got MLS to institute minimum standards for away fan sections. Fans have successfully lobbied to increase the size of those sections for relevant rivalry games when the FO's can often times have the opinion where more opposing fans is bad. League tried to hijack the Cascadia Cup and Rocky Mount Cup and the Supporters Groups shut that down hard. Whether you agree with the politics of it or not. The league tried to stop teams using the iron front flag in stadiums. The Supporters Groups won out. Fans have lobbied to have safe standing sections built in new stadiums having a direct impact on the design of these buildings. And there are going to be countless battles between SGs and their Team's FOs that you will have never heard of where because the fans are organized and have a little leverage they have put a stop to shit going on in stadiums. These are all Americans who are soccer fans.
So besides helping to get rid of the countdown clock, shootouts, stupid shirts, stupid names, the Supporters Shield, the Cascadia Cup, the Rocky Mountain Cup, saving San Jose, saving the Crew - twice, policing themselves, administering away travel, safe standing, club specific reforms, protesting racism, fascism and homophobia, capos, tifos, traditions such as the Timber Joey, and the march to the match, what have MLS fans ever done for us? (By the way, last week's stupid recyclable jersey stunt must never happen again).
I agree with the premise that soccer fans in Europe are more passionate, but I think the reason for that is that soccer is by far the pre-eminent team sport there. Their sense of identity is tied up in it because their team is the team that represents their part of the city and it has been for 100 years. Half of MLS teams have been around for what - 10 years? Because of the lack of tradition, changing things doesn't strike people in a visceral way . Hardly anyone cares about the CCL, it doesn't have any history that's meaningful to people, so even if people were unhappy, they're not likely to be storming-the-club unhappy. The other issue is that a lot of the MLS supporters are not critical of MLS in the way that others, and presumably you, are. Speaking for myself, I think that MLS is broadly doing the right things to build a soccer league in the US so "holding them accountable" doesn't mean anything to me. What you're presenting as a difference in passion I would interpret as a difference in desired ideas for what the league should do.