Christian Pulisic at AC Milan

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Balerion, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    A goal every 389' played is not a bad stat for a winger. It's nothing to write home about, but it's not bad outright.

    The single assist in 1,555 league minutes played is the tough one.

    4 goals, 1 assist are also Almiron's numbers, playing a similar position, in more minutes (2,178) but in a much weaker team with a lot of trouble getting the ball forward.
     
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  2. RecLeague Super Sub

    Fulham
    United States
    Jun 5, 2019
    So who did produce vs Arsenal, by comparison? Even Mount was bad. And CHO and Havertz and Giroud and Ziyech also did not do much vs Arsenal. So maybe CP does start. We’ll see.

    And CP had a right to say he was disappointed after scoring vs Real and then not starting the next leg. No news here. All players would be disappointed. God that quote was overblown. It doesn’t mean he has to score every game to contribute.
     
  3. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, looking like no help from ManU. Chelsea essentially has 4 must win games over the course of 14 days coming up. That will make a manager a little tense.
     
  4. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Little early to count United out today?
     
  5. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe!
     
  6. NorcalHockeyhooligan

    Feb 25, 2012
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Chelsea win the Champions League (dear GOD, I hope I haven't jinxed it!), do they automatically qualify for CL next year?
     
  7. zanderbz

    zanderbz Member

    May 12, 2005
    United States
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree, those ratings are way off based on what I saw.
     
  8. Noriega7

    Noriega7 Member

    Newcastle United
    Dec 27, 2017
    Yes, they're in regardless of their league ranking..I think whoever finishes fifth would be in since Chelsea as the 4th ranked would qualify thru winning the CL title......Not entire sure on that.
     
  9. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    good news for us Liverpool fans!
     
  10. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    #47110 Placid Casual, May 13, 2021
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
    Sort of

    If Chelsea finishes fifth and win they are in.

    If they finish top 4 and win the Champions League fifth is still in the Europa League
     
  11. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Might consider it bang average unless said wide forward can throw in a couple of assists and a couple of goals in the Champions League, and then it might be looked on as quite capable and improving.
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    You have to consider the observer bias issue.

    Basically, we're aware of how influential Pulisic is when he plays, the chances he misses through no fault of his own, the balls that should be assists but someone else flubbed, etc.

    But that is because we're following him, watching his every game. We're not following the other wingers with 4 goals and 1 assist in the season.

    For all we know, they may be just as influential if not more, miss even more chances due to back luck, and have more crucial passes wasted by bad strikers!

    So, unless we're watching all the others, we can only hypothesize that Pulisic is showing more than his production in comparison with other players with similar production.

    I hope it's clear.
     
  13. oscar_in_fw

    oscar_in_fw Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Kansas City
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I want to see a lineup which has Havertz, Werner and Pulisic as the front 3 with Mount playing in the midfield. I doubt this will happen until significant personnel changes are made this Summer in defense/midfield (assuming the aforementioned are still around....)

    It looks like Chelsea has MUST WIN matches against Leicester City and Aston Villa to ensure a top 4 finish. Liverpool or Leicester City would have stumble otherwise.
     
    Zinkoff repped this.
  14. DCU1984

    DCU1984 Member+

    Jan 15, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is exactly why I love soccer. Do the other wingers also play with 5 defenders 2 dms 1cm (Mount) and only one other attacker. Probably not.
     
  15. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tuchel sees it as an opportunity to tinker!
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    We often use the logic that an attacking player has poor production in a weak team due to lack of service.

    If we're consistent, we should use that same analysis for Almiron in Newcastle (using him because he's one I know, from Atlanta). He's in a weak team, one of the worst in the league, that has trouble getting past midfield in games against stronger upper-half-of-the-table rivals.

    He's scored against Leeds (#10), Bromwich (#19) and twice against Southampton (#14). He also assisted against West Ham (#6). And all that playing in the team #16 right now. Thus, most of his goals and assists have been against better teams.

    By comparison, Pulisic has scored against Leeds (#10), Bromwich (#19) and twice against Crystal Palace (#13). He also has an assist against Burnley (#15). That is very similar, even a bit weaker than Almiron, because of the assist. And that playing for the team #4 on the table, a team that attacks more than Newcastle (55 goals vs. 40).

    Were we to use exactly the same standards we use for, say, Sargent, for Almiron, and say "it's tough to score when you play for a weak team that seldom attacks," then we're forced to conclude that in league play, at least in production, Almiron is more than comparable to Pulisic.
     
  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    And Hoppe the best of them all!
     
  18. GreedyG

    GreedyG Member

    Dec 9, 2020
    And how many minutes have each of them played in all league games?
     
  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I already posted those numbers: 2,178 minutes for Almiron, 1,555 for Pulisic. That is, Pulisic has played 28.6% fewer minutes than Almiron.

    But that difference is balanced by the fact that Almiron plays in a much weaker team with much lower possession numbers and many fewer scored goals.

    Yet the production is very similar, even with a slight Almiron advantage.

    So correcting for all those parameters, they're having equivalent seasons in the Premier, at best, for CP.
     
  20. GreedyG

    GreedyG Member

    Dec 9, 2020
    Oh, come on, that’s just getting silly. Big Soccer math.
     
  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I'm just asking for consistency. We excuse our players when they don't produce for weak teams because the team is weak and they cannot shine.

    You cannot have that and at the same time deny that Almiron and Pulisic are having equivalent seasons in the Premier, at the very least. It's logical.
     
    appwrangler repped this.
  22. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can’t blame him. He won’t be able to throw out whatever he thinks his strongest side for each match. And, if FA Cup final goes into OT, complicates it further.
     
  23. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Liverpool's victory over United yesterday has (per 538) changed the odds significantly. If Liverpool win out, then either Chelsea or Leicester will almost certainly be pushed to 5th.

    Chances of a top-four finish:

    Leicester - 68%
    Chelsea - 68%
    Liverpool - 67%
     
    SamsArmySam and ChrisSSBB repped this.
  24. zanderbz

    zanderbz Member

    May 12, 2005
    United States
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All because Jorginho had a brain fart.
     
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  25. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    In this sport there are too many variables to draw firm conclusions based on individual production numbers. I really thought that this team’s offense would gel into something very high powered as they learn to each other’s movements, habits, runs, etc. That has never happened. I don’t know if it is all of the rotation and disruption caused by the managerial change, or if it comes down to the players themselves. There were times after project restart when last year‘s front line made some beautiful combination plays, particularly when Giroud was at the number 9. But In retrospect that usually involved a Pulisic initiated attack from the wing off the dribble. Once Chilwell arrived, and because defenses changed to adjust to CP’s dribbling threat, those sorts of interesting attacks have dwindled. When Werner arrived, it looked like there were all sorts of attack opportunities over the top, Werner (and Pulisic) repeatedly made those runs in the earlier part of this season and they were ignored by the midfielders. And for all his value, I still don’t think Mason Mount is an elite attacker. All of which has defeated the vision I had of an impressive Swiss watch kind of attack involving Pulisic, Havertz, Werner, and Ziyech. I think that could have been possible under a manager who prioritized creating that sort of attack, but I suppose it would’ve always been difficult with the midfield that Chelsea has. I fully expect Roman and Marina to ignore that problem in the midfield and go out chasing more elite attackers this summer. Nor do I see what the manager sees in Jorginho.
     

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