A former assistant coach who was a neighbor before moving onto new endeavors put the blame for the Cameron-to-Stoke City transfer hold-up on those in New York City, not Houston. Dom signed off on the deal after Geoff Cameron met the terms of an agreement between the two, I was told. My perception was the agreement was verbal and called for Geoff to stay on one year after England clubs first came calling, but that was never confirmed.
De Ro has written a book about his life in the sport! https://ca.news.yahoo.com/canadian-soccer-icon-dwayne-rosario-183108821.html From the article: "Dwayne De Rosario's soccer credentials are well-established. Named one of Major League Soccer's 25 greatest players, MLS MVP (2011) and two-time MLS Cup MVP (2001 and 2007), the Canadian attacker scored 104 league goals in an MLS career that stretched from 2001 to 2014. Internationally, he earned 81 caps for Canada and tops the list of Canadian men's goal-scorers with 22. Toronto FC and Canada Soccer will not like some passages of the book. De Rosario does not spare either, although he makes it clear that both have come a long way in recent years and are worlds ahead of where they were. "There's something special happening right now," he writes of the current Canadian men's team. "There's a hope and a belief among the national team that wasn't always there. (Coach) John Herdman deserves a lot of credit for that." It's a far cry from having to return Canadian jerseys at a national camp "because we're giving them to the youth team." Or the Sony gift card De Rosario got from Canada Soccer for his second Canadian Player of the Year award in 2006."
Yup! Back in the day, MLS NY held all the power. Y’all remember they screwed over Taylor Twellman, too. That’s why he’s so bitter (among other things).
In the new book from De Ro, it states that he was wanted by Celtic FC and once again the deal does not happen for the player due to some speedbumps that the player and agent cannot control.
It actually was confirmed. From the mouth of Geoff Cameron "The Houston Dynamo launched my entire career. They got me to the Premier League. Thank God I had a manager who was looking out for me, though. It could have easily gone another way. I’ll never forget what Dominic Kinnear did for me when he was coaching the Dynamo. In 2009, David Moyes saw me play in the MLS All-Star Game against his Everton team, and he liked me. I knew there was a little bit of interest there. But the Dynamo wanted me to re-sign, and so I said to Dom, “Listen, I just want you to know up front that my dream is to play overseas. So if anyone comes in with real interest, please do whatever you can to help me.” Dom said, “Give me two good years, and if anything comes in, you have my word that I’ll do whatever I can to make it happen.” Two years later I was on a plane to go join Stoke City. Dom had kept his word and supported my dream. He sent a Mass kid who grew up framing houses with his dad — over to England to go mark Kun Agüero and Didier Drogba and Eden Hazard every weekend. He helped me get there. MLS helped me get there." https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/geoff-cameron-what-must-change-in-u-s-soccer
I believe that the bottle neck was caused by MLS HQ wanting more money because MLS gets a percentage. The agreed amount was about $2.7 million with the league keeping 1/3. In researching I found this quote and discovered that we were indeed a "club" back then, regardless of the narrative promoted by the FO last year. "The club is in favor of this transfer, and we are in support of it happening," Dynamo president Chris Canetti said. "We will continue to work with the league as they go through the process and make their decision."
that's revisionist history and we both know it. he may have sorted things out in the interim but at that time he was angry and blamed the team, not MLS. that may have been a misreading of events on his part but it happened. similarly, i'd swear he was publicly critical of the FO a few years back. which is not even a wrong take but let's be real what the relationship is. he decided let's go to cincy instead. also worth noting, and we would all know this, that speaking with reverence towards kinnear and a historic houston dynamo is not necessarily affection for the ongoing project. last point, with a wife who was trapped in will call for the first 30 minutes of the first game, i think there is some hagiography about how well this was run back then. this was always a bit amateur hour but then leavened by a salary cap that made our spending habits competitive, a legacy squad, and a coach with a clue and some rigor. that was around when DP started and we weren't quick to that bandwagon. this never was a well oiled machine, we never spent money, that's just more consequential over time.
we had a general pattern at the time of seeming to do gentleman's agreements to get players briefly in town or re-signed with the seeming idea that they could move on after x years to someplace they really wanted to be. jaqua comes to mind. more recently i think we probably did this with elis and manotas but the execution was just incompetent. hence cameron remains the record out-transfer still. discussion of progress to europe was there from the start. gentleman's agreements wouldn't fix our issues anymore because this is no longer frosting atop a well cooked cake. this is we need basic flour. we need foundational pieces who want to be here for years eg boniek. "rentals" worked when this was 1-2 players away from something. ok, come sign here a year and we'll trade you to the east coast when we're champions. i mean half my problem on urruti fafa darwin boniek figueroa is that is not a gaggle with much shelf life left. basically rentals minus the gentleman's agreement. if this starts to click "somewhat" it has to be redone in 2022-2023. whole flaw in 2017. the defense had no tread left.
the dero discussion we have to remember these is basically before and after 2010-ish. beckham was the first big fee in and we rarely had fees going out. people ran their contract then could leave on a free. people came here when released or on a free. whole deal was we refused to pay for players. after all, the whole debate used to be how we were supposedly so restrictive with the 4 year deals including options. now you might very well get sold year 2-3 if that's what you want. i kind of doubt dero-to-celtic was while he was here. he'd already been in europe. i thought when he was here it was one eye out for does toronto get a team, and then he got hosed and sent to NY instead. i don't think MLS was much into the transfer business until after he was gone. there are counter examples like bradley but they are the exception proving the rule. within MLS teams used to be a lot less intense on letting people go. you'd do a random trade or just release them to let them go. everything now is a serious trade or we hold out for a fee. USL wants a fee. if europe thinks you want a reserve it's a fee and not release. it's become a lot more of a "business." now, if you wanted to go abroad, "you have a contract." it was viewed more as something to enforce than something to profit off.
i say supposedly restrictive because the snobs ignore the career loan players, people chelsea or monaco has no intent to play, but no intent to release, and you spend 4-5 years or more being rotated around on loans. parent won't play you, loan teams won't buy, you're an asset but never out of the shop window. the honest thing would be release the unwanted player but when this became about strictly business then your contract is an accounting asset even if you are a sporting indifference. i mean, those sorts of serial loans are just a more lucrative version of "enforcing the contract."
I don't know that it's "revisionist". All I know is what I witnessed. I took this photo on July 15, 2012 and it was obvious that folks in the stadium knew the hold up was with MLS and not the Dynamo. Geoff and his agent would have been very aware of who was responsible for the holdup. On his other criticism of the team, he was indeed critical about the hiring of Cabrerra, but that doesn't validate the claim he blamed the team for the Stoke holdup. Finally, there's no way he would have come here without the Dynamo giving him a significant salary and we know that the current ownership are cheapskates so that would never happen anyway.
which is all well and good except my point is more that he beefed about hard negotiating seeking more money -- capitalism -- than specifically about who did it. if business is business and you run your own life on salary offers maybe don't grumble it took an extra week. i still think he beefed at us first and the stories about it being MLS wanting more were the response. which is fair factually but i want to say he went at us a bit. i still think there's been at least a thing or two since -- tweets, blog posts -- critical of the team. that being said, if "business is business" then one way of reading cameron's actions is he raised his own stink to pressure MLS to act. the equivalent of clattering someone a couple times on the field, but then perhaps shaking their hand after. some people have a mean streak, some people have an on off switch for a little theater.
one problem with substantiating modern history is going to be that what used to be on paper in a library is now increasingly on line and more fungible. after x number years things start disappearing off the net. i remember him being initially angry at us. i remember we pointed the finger at MLS. i don't doubt that was reality. i still remember him being upset with us. i don't remember that dissipating. it would be positive if he came around over time. i just don't remember his floodlights ever switching over at the time. i remember there being a houston component and a MLS part. i wouldn't doubt an informed fan back then could separate it out. i don't know if he publicly did is my point. i can't find old articles of what happened so it's hard to show where i'd swear some of the flak came our direction, if but to say get MLS straightened out and this done. and then many of us saw the more recent critiques as him still being raw. i think a lot of fans and players would separate out office from kinnear. that being said, kinnear at the time was the "slash" GM.
I consider myself a fairly ardent follower the Kinnear-era Dynamo. Can you point me to whatever news article, social media post, etc., you read where Cameron was publicly critical of the Dynamo over his transfer? I don't doubt your claim, but I just don't remember that in any way. I've been lucky enough to live in a neighborhood where either the Dynamo players and coaches choose to live or, most likely, are encouraged by the Dynamo to move as part of the relocation support process. None of the people from those years described Cameron as souring on the Dynamo. All of them characterized the scenario as MLS HQ holding up the deal to get more value for Cameron, not the way you describe it. EDIT: Nevermind, I just read your most recent post. I'll leave it be with your characterization is not how it's been conveyed to me by people who played with, coached, and covered him.
In terms of the more recent criticism, "Funny that @HoustonDynamo seem to be chasing away everyone that helped make the club successful!” on twitter. I personally think the Barrett angst was overwrought. He had them organized but not very successful. Endless ties. I think his PPG were similar to Coyle. Coyle was 59 pts 49 games ~ 1.2 ppg. The year he got fired it was 11 pts in 12 games. Barrett was 19 pts in 22 games. Barrett couldn't get any offense out of the team and wouldn't even take tactical risks late in games. We would just grind out tie after tie. Maybe he thought us looking more professional would be sufficient and they'd take the interim label off no matter how it went. I am sure the historical players liked the idea of one of their own. I am sure they were peeved he wasn't really considered. History disagrees. This discussion is colored by the end of Cabrera. We're leaving out 2017. They canned Barrett then made the playoffs. To be fair, that was also a dramatic personnel shift. And ultimately unsustainable. I see it as more like the USMNT coaching debate where in some circles it's like parsing among bad ideas instead of pay the money and get a good coach. The frame is itself the problem. We don't spend money on coaches so exception Coyle it's a bunch of assistants or youth national team coaches. And even Coyle was a reclamation job, had gotten teams relegated, was trying to start over.
There is the one angle that perhaps needs to be recalled, Geoff Cameron coulda been (and still is) a very self-centered individual. So any road bumps in the process of capitalism for professional soccer players and their path to glory abroad, if this process is held up, well someone else in the process is always to blame. Never him or his agent.
I met him when he was still on his lousy rookie and deal and he seemed pretty enthusiastic to be playing soccer for a living. My guess is his most negative views of him come from those with different political beliefs
I hear ya. I met the dude when he had just played his first ever game as a pro for us. The Opening Day game versus FCD where he fired home the equalizer late on. I ran into him out in the Rob's parking lot. Didn't talk to the guy as I did all the screaming of "thanks rookie!!!" but he seemed approachable. I know this much as an old athlete, your teammates will know what kind of person you are better than anyone, even your family! So we can just ask past Dynamo players for closure on this Cameron ego front.
I didn't think he got that bad a first contract deal, in context. Last player picked in the 3rd round -- no one else that round lasted past 2012 in MLS or 2013 in the Norwegian beer leagues (Lapira) -- and yet he got a senior deal for $60k. That was reserve league era and you could sign someone for as little as $12k on a reserve deal. He got main roster money. Played college and PDL not YNT and Bradenton. All conference not all american. Kinnear found a gem but he was unknown and would probably still make $60-80k today, like Junqua, Hoffman, etc. You're fast forwarding to what we know after the first game -- and I was there too -- but he got a decent deal for his CV at the time. I do wish soccer paid better, then and now, but in terms of the going rate at the time for a rookie, he did ok. The more fair argument is maybe tear up the old deal year 2 instead of end of year 3. It was maybe that they took advantage of it a couple years. But that team was premised on no one making very much. It was a harder cap, 1 DP league but we had none of the grandfathered millionaires and we tended to share out a bunch of $100-250k deals rather than pay any one player higher six figures. Cheap even then. But that's how they could keep that much talent in one place. Anyways, they upped him as some of the veteran corps retired or went abroad.
Not sure if I conveyed it well but "business is business," shake your hand after slide tackling you, is suggesting he could play hard within the lines -- including business ones -- and then be an alright guy off the field.**** I even understand a little public comment to push the process along and ensure the deal doesn't get fouled by greed. I wouldn't be surprised if Jordan quietly has a few of those. But I remember some anger, I don't remember it being leavened with "it's been nice" at the end, and I think it would be constructive to separate out the team, Kinnear, fans, from who he wants to criticize. I think part of the reason it is what it is now is no one names the bad boy list. There is no public equivalent of a Glazer protest from former players or the fans in any formal way. We beef but in the same way Texans' fans quietly vent about Cal McNair. And I do think it's a little bit muddled to be money centered for you but critique others holding out for a little. That might be a conservative business thing where it's like, fend for yourself and throw some elbows if you have to. I just don't particularly remember some sort of after-the-fact healing effort. He just left. And he's been critical since. I even support critiquing the issues with this front office and ownership. But to me you need to leaven that with "long suffering fans" (recently) or something. *****That being said I wouldn't shake people's hands after the games if I felt like they had a game long aggressive leg chopping strategy. A forward for the Texans, who I think had been out partying the previous night, did once ask me to take it easy on him in exchange for reciprocity. And as long as he just passed the ball backwards I just jockeyed him back upfield.
i'm not really saying cameron should come here, i am questioning why cincy. that is a hopeless cash grab. 1 point this season, 10 GA in 3 games. wooden spoon 2 years running before that. setting aside what i think of the town, it's no way to close out a career, even for a paycheck. unlike bobby wood last year, when he dipped his toe in those waters, there is no potential national team payoff for signing someplace just to get minutes. wood might get on the striker roster if he could get back playing and scoring before dike gets in or sargent turns the corner or one of the others hits their stride. cameron is done at that level. i am a wood fan and think he makes awful career decisions (seemingly agent/money/ambition driven), and even he dodged that bullet.
Preimeira Liga is wrapped up. Boavista escaped relegation and finished 12th with 36 points. They finished only two points out of the relegation play-off spot. Elis finished with 8 goals, 7 assists in 31 games and 2,551 minutes played. His base transfer fee was supposedly pretty low, but there were a lot of performance incentives lumped in. I have to think he probably tripped a fair few. We also reportedly retain a 20% cut in any future transfers. There are already rumors starting to circulate that Elis won't be long for Boavista. With any luck they sell him for a tidy sum and we can at least partially dig our way out of that transfer blunder.