Like everyone else I a, guessing based on limited information. My 2 cents on CP and Chelsea: Pulisic won’t accept not starting for the long haul, but is enjoying this nice run. Win streaks make disappointments seem smaller, and reduce the leverage of those who aren’t selected. TT is enjoying well deserved credibility right now. He has completely transformed the defense from the mess it was under Frank. That is pretty much the key to their success, along with the old Kante suddenly inhabiting the body of the new Kante. CP is very, very sharp and threatening right now. Only a few players can freeze (read: scare defenders into passivity) the way Pulisic did in the second goal and a few other times in the game. In all facets of the game save one (pressing) he brings more to the table than Werner. And Werner is playing well, even without converting many chances himself. Pulisic right now is better, period. CP will face more frustration under TT next year. He apparently is willing to prove himself over and over, but I can’t see that going on forever. With TT having default preferences for the Germans and Mount over CP when it comes to filling out the lineup card, I don’t think that even winning will make Pulisic accept a permanent super sub role. And Chelsea apparently can’t resist accumulating attackers, which will amplify the problem (and inhibit the process of converting the existing attack into the something glorious that it could be—I think Havertz and Werner will improve). The club seems to want Sancho first before the world class midfielders they need. So while everyone can accept and enjoy their assigned roles in this run, next year could be a transitional one for Pulisic. Irrespective of numbers, he disrupts defenses and creates chances for himself and others like few players in the world. So says not just me, but also elite defenders. I think he loves Chelsea. I suspect that next year either he gets the benefit of the manager’s doubt more regularly, or he moves on before the 2022-23 season.
I’m just shocked fans are saying things like “seeing Pulisic on the bench”. He has started almost every game over the last two months. He is a starter. We know that, Chelsea fans know that, the media knows that, and Tuchel knows that. That doesn’t change because his coach decided to foil Madrid’s game plan by bringing the best player off the bench to terrorize Ramos. I’m not sure where this alternative talking point comes from. Chill
Come on man, any time PSG loses the league it’s a colossal disappointment. Anybody without an agenda can agree to that. Tuchel is a pretty good manager, but it’s impossible to ignore the fact that he has twice been fired from clubs despite being reasonably successful. That’s a pretty big indication that he’s an outstanding asshole in a profession where pretty much everyone excels at that. many people here are downplaying the significance of him pissing CP off because they won, but if you want to succeed long term you have to win AND keep your players (and executives) happy. These are exactly the types of problems that guys like Klopp and Pep cut out, but that fester under guys like Tuchel and lead to them getting fired.
Your first attacker off of the bench is an incredibly important player in the squad. Ask any team that only has crap to bring off of the bench. If CP plays that role in some matches and starts others, that's a very good situation. Int his particular case, Pulisic was clearly a matchup nightmare for this version of Real Madrid - he had an assist and drew two yellows in less than 30 minutes, after a goal and pushing them to fouling distraction in the first match - so I wonder whether it was a tactical masterstroke not to play him. They seem 30% more likely to score while he's on the pitch, to make up a statistic out of my gut/ass.
SoooOoOooOooo, somehow Berhalter will need to find a way to tick off the Hershey man prior to important WCQ matches. How about bringing him in off the bench in like the 4th minute at Azteca?
That's a terrible take to be honest. Tuchel is probably one of the top 5 managers in the world right now. You can't argue with the results (see my post above). You can question his methods (80% of this thread).
Regarding the issue of why CP started on the bench and TT's thinking behind the decision. I think Werner being the alternative is probably incorrect, even though he was the one he took off to put CP on. I think Werner was always going to start in a game where we thought Madrid would be throwing men forward because they had to score at least one goal. The danger from Werner's speed, (which was evident a few times in the game), couldn't just be ignored and it stretched the game. So I think Havertz was the one that 'took CP's starting spot' and, having watched the game, I suspect a lot of top managers would have made the same call. But note, I say 'STARTING' spot. I suspect it was just a case of choosing the order of when they were swapped out but then, when we'd gone a goal up and Havertz had had several chances to put it to bed and got close, TT made the call, (rightly IMO), to swap out the guy who'd struggled to perform, (despite his goal), and leave Havert on with CP. IOW Havertz had done his job, (or part of it anyway... scoring more goals was the other), so he came off. But the other thing that occurred to me, (and I've told this story before on here), was that there's a certain degree of man management involved at the highest level. Back in the day one of the greatest club managers was a fella called Brian Clough. He took Nottingham Forest to two CL wins, (well, european cups, more accurately). That's Nottingham Forest... NOT Manchester United... NOT Liverpool. Nottingham Forest before Clough went there were pretty much where they are now. Languishing in the second tier of English football obscurity. One of his greatest skills as a manager was man management. Forest at the time had a young left back by the name of Stuart Pearce who'd just got called up into the England squad and was obviously feeling pretty good about it. Pearce was a hard as nails character and a right bolshie bastard, even when he was in a good move which, tbh, wasn't that often Clough asked him into his office, unexpectedly. Pearce thought he was going to congratulate him but... er... NOT quite Cough sat him down, "I see you've been called into the England squad, young man". Pearce said yes. "Well, I don't think you should have been and do you know why?" Pearce looked confused. "Because you're not GOOD enough... THAT'S why. Now get out of my office". The thing is, Stuart Pearce being... well, Stuart Pearce started training and playing like a man possessed. basically to prove him wrong. He became a Forest stalwart and an ever-present in the England team as well. When CP came on last night he looked pissed. I mean, he ran around like a maniac and tried things which he can do, (because he's a good player), but, in many games, he hadn't tried particularly and it occurs to me, that's exactly the point. So maybe he's just one of these fellas that NEEDS to be a ticked off. It's probably because he is, essentially, what he appears to be... a generally good natured, easy-going fella that will let things slide but, as a top footballer, that's the opposite of what you need. Well, not everyone maybe. But maybe it's the case with him? Anyway, I just thought it was interesting and it harks back to what I've seen in the game before, as I said
Agreed. And from a coach’s POV this makes perfect sense. A player’s sense of the kind of career he wants to have may differ, however. As do fans’ views of how reasonable the player’s perspective is.
at the end of the day tuchel can be tactically brilliant and 100% right and pulisic can never accept the role.
Leave aside the 2nd leg of the Real Madrid match (I can see why Pulisic didn't start for tactical reasons). The bolded is how I feel CP feels about his time at Chelsea under both Lampard and Tuchel. To me, it seems once CP "proved" himself to Lampard, he earned FL's trust and regular starts. Again to me, even after CP has proven himself to Tuchel, CP - and no one else - has to constantly prove over and over and over again his skills aren't a fluke. With his comments yesterday, I think CP was saying he sees this double standard. We can speculate on this forum why there may (or may not) be a double standard...but for the first time, I see the danger flashing lights/sirens coming from CP himself that he has a problem with the situation. It kind of reminds me of Deuce's situation when he was with Fulham. In the coaching merry-go-round there, Deuce had to prove to each new manager he was a baller, and when he proved it, he was a regular starter. But the point is, Dempsey had to prove it over and over again.
But Tuchel has started Pulisic on EVERY occasion when he’s healthy. When he came back from injury he wasn’t healthy NOR in form. Since getting back in form Tuchel has turned to him at every opportunity. I just don’t see how anyone thinks Pulisic has to fight his way back into the starting 11. It’s just not reality.
One thing I hadn't really considered about Werner playing all the time is his pace. That pace keeps teams from playing a high line and forces opponents to concede space in the midfield. That space gives Kante, Jorghino, and Mount time to operate and pull strings. That kinda of explains Timo starting all of the time. The things you learn listening to Chelsea supporters.
I'm of the mind that Pulisic's ability to manage a counterattack, making the final pass or the right run into space, nor running offside, and being more likely to finish, make him a better choice for exactly the situation you're talking about. Maybe RM's defense would be less worried about his flat out speed than Werner's, but although Werner's probably faster than CP, CP's definitely faster than Nacho and Ramos, and that might matter more. I think Werner's multiple agonizing mistakes more than offset the pressure he put on the RM defense, but I agree he did at least help in that regard.
It's funny because I'm on both sides of the argument. CP needs to improve his fitness capacity and remove the tag of not 90 minutes fit.
Im not looking at Tuchel from any CP lens. Im a Dortmund club fan. USA first and always. He won at PSG and won a single POKAL at Dortmund with the likes of Auba and company and Dembele. They scored the most goals ever that year in Dortmund until of course the next two years and he still didnt win anything other than their own cup. They fired him 3 days after because he constantly attempted to undermine staff and management due to wanting Toprak (who was the biggest waste of money ever). Great call on that one Tuchel. He fought with scouts constantly. Again, he is not world class yet. He has been to two finals in two years. He is hot. By that regard is every coach that goes to a final a world class coach? Every coach that won in the past 10-15 years still world class? I mean where does it draw the line? Im not some CP apologist. I dont care about his tactics holding back any USA player. They won and he has made great decisions in doing so.
Pearce was a great player... just don't put him on penalties That was the 1990 world cup semi-final against the Germans. But he got his opportunity for redemption in '96 against Spain. You can tell there what he's like... as nutty as a fruitcake, as my old man used to say
I hope CP leaves. His ability can fit with any top team. Tuchel has this view of liking CP off the bench. His not starting CP after he was so strong in CL leg1 was a slap in the face. His interview indicated that CP wasn't at all pleased. Chelsea is good but so is Bayern, Liverpool, etc.
Thing is, we know TT thinks he's a "tactician" (with some good reason tbf). He's not a "St. Crispin's day speech and have at it" coach. He's sure he's playing 4D chess. So if he thinks his subs and formations are clever AND they keep working, he'll keeping do whatever he thinks he's doing that is clever and working. He won't care that much about CP except to the extent CP's actions stops the winning. I think TT *is* a pretty clever coach for the most part, and it's kind of hard for CP to argue too hard against it at the moment. He's starting plenty, coming in off the bench to influence games. What is the line here: I must start every game! "But Christian, you are our secret weapon, unbalancing a tired team, do you no like coming in and being the hero every couple of games? Are you not a team player?" Ok... nevermind. Until they start losing (and it's probably too late for that this season) without CP starting over a course of games, I'm not sure CP has a lot of immediate leverage. Can/are his people working behind the scenes if he's really unhappy with TT and his situation long-term, of course, but even that conversation: "We're in the FA final, the CL final, he started and scored v. RM, came on as super sub carrying a yellow to help ice the 2nd game and get all the glory after a season of sporadic injury and he wants a transfer cuz why exactly?" I mean - if Bayern or Citeh or Barca/RM are knocking and ready to break the bank, maybe... But otherwise... I dunno. I'm no Chelski fan, but it's hard to make the case this was a terrible season for CP. It will be interesting, given Chelski have Citeh x2 and Lester x2 coming up, to see how CP performs in big matches against Brit rivals. If he shines in one of those, esp the cup games, the TT v. CP will get even more interesting (if it's really a thing.)