Spaghetti Weston: McKennie at Juventus

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by hokeydokey, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    You are absolutely correct.
     
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  2. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    No chess is much easier, the pieces don't just move to some random spot in contradiction to what you had instructed them to do.

    The role Weston is playing, sounds very similar to the role Mount plays for CFC..."go find the game son"
     
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  3. usnroach

    usnroach Member+

    Jul 5, 2009
    SoCal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is unfortunate that his appearances have been on either the left or right as a makeshift "wide midfielder." Making the most of them with goals will only help!

    The next match against Atalanta will be difficult, I have no idea if Pirlo will continue to go with the more attack minded 4-4-2 with Chiesa, Kulu, or Cuadrado was the wide midfielders or a little defensive solidity with Weston there instead.
     
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  4. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The far side defender, who was keeping him on, pretty obviously, but screaming that McKennie was off (because he was in front of the other defenders) was priceless.
     
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  5. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the numbers dont matter...but wes musah and tyler as a trio in midfield might not be enough in terms of chance generation, imo. no playmaker in midfield is not a good idea.
     
  6. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think you meant to say that Bigsoccer posters can pretty easily say, "hey you guys are our 3 CMs..." Coaches, at anything above a high school level, actually have to prepare their players to think their way through the game. A single pivot (which is a bit out of style but I like) versus a double pivot (which is all the rage) makes a ton of differeince in how a side plays.
     
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  7. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I will try to think of another question that gives every peacock here a chance to spread his feathers. Stay tuned.
     
  8. chrome_vapors

    chrome_vapors Member+

    Oct 15, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably the prototypical 4-3-3 of our time.
     
  9. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I kinda sorta have with the 4-3-3 I employ with both of my U16 and U17 girls that I coach. My RB and LB provide the width and my 3 CMs have the flexibility to interchange positions. Essentially they play in a triangle. When defending, at the "base" of the triangle are Double 6's. Then when attacking, the triangle is turned and we have Double-8's at the top and a 6 at the bottom. It took a full year get all 3 CM's on the same page and to understand the interchanging movement. You can't take a play off or it literally unbalances everything. You'll leave giant spaces if communication and self awareness aren't there. When it works, it's beautiful to watch the three players interchange. When it's off, the three tend to occupy the same space leaving holes.
     
  10. felloveranddidanadu

    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Dec 12, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Frogs
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lol, "all the other American internationals combined" i.e. a defender who got like a season at a midtable team and a CDM who flamed out at Roma. Today's goal was probably the pick of his Serie A goals. Nothing is probably ever going to top his goal vs Barca though
     
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  11. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    Nice feathers! [emoji12]
     
  12. DMTerp02

    DMTerp02 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Annapolis, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The beauty of what Gregg is setting up with the US is as people say, Adams behind Musah/Lletget and McKennie. None of which are true playmakers, yes. But with the fullbacks bombing forward to create the width on either side, the wingers Pulisic and Reyna/Weah will often be cutting inside to find the ball and to combine with the mids.

    So you'll see a lot of rotation and triangles on either side with RB/RW/RCM and the LB/LW/LCM, and what Wes is doing with Juve he'll be able to do in those situations as well, with the confidence that the RB/RW will fill into the space he's leaving when he goes on those forward runs.

    All of these particular pieces fit in well together.
     
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  13. Golazo69

    Golazo69 Member+

    Aug 2, 2017
    In fairness, Bradley was very good for Chievo, hence him earning the move to Roma
     
  14. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Which is precisely why the numbers matter, at least a little. The newfangled single pivot is trendy because it doesn't use a playmaker, unless you count the false 9 it often relies upon. The cliche is that defensive pressure is the real number 10 in a single pivot. the system obviously works at club level, but seems really complicated for national team play, where players don't have a lot of time to get in sync.
     
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  15. Nastrabrahmus

    Nastrabrahmus Member+

    Mar 29, 2012
    San Diego, CA
     
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  16. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well my rebuttal to that is that it is the qualities of the players specifically that is the issue not the numbers they are assigned.

    calling wes an 8 instead of 6...and even pushing him upfield into an advanced rle doesnt magically turn him into a playmaker.

    Great player. I like all of musah, adams and mckennie...but, again, there is no playmaking in the midfield.

    I think either mckennie or adams are capable of playing the pivot ...and playing it well. adams is first choice there and a great option....but, in my view, the numbers don't matter if you dont have the right type of players included.

    I want a high pressing team....but one that can create and not only rely on pressure to create...bc I think it wont work and it will also make for dull soccer...that wont allow this team to reach its heights.

    in the past any player as good as musah mckennie or adams would be a starter....they are all good enough for that....but there will be good players on the bench this cycle....the formation has to get the best out of the team. the coach needs to aim high.

    i really dont see why you cant play with midfielders capable of playmaking AND pressing. can someone explain that to me?
     
  17. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    1) Continuous, active, coordinated (i.e satisfactory) pressing requires a lot of effort. A lot.

    2) If I'm a creative player, I play the game to showcase my mad skillz, not to run around chasing the ball.

    3) The team has nine other field players to do the dirty work, win the ball, and pass it to me.

    4) I realize the above may sound selfish, but I really do appreciate all the little people whose hard work makes my life of leisure possible. Many thanks!
     
  18. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Because Zidane retired? Look at Liverpool. Depending on the opponent, klopp uses a single or a double pivot. When it's a single pivot, a player with the incredible skills of Firmino is on the bench or at the 9 (false), because the more advanced mids are henderson and Thiago, or Windjamum. I mean, these are all amazing players, but they do different things, and you have Salah and Mane in advanced positions being, as the saying goes today, goal dangerous. So that's okay.
    If you play a double pivot, firmino can slide back into that AM-ish role atop the midfield triangle, and you've got, well a bunch of great options for the two playing more holding roles.
    You are correct, it's about the players. Just saying you want to put the players into the system that works best for them. If the two best players on your roster are McKennie and Adams, and IMO for the US side they are, you can play them as dual holding mids, which is pretty badass and I would think should be an option, but will cost you something going forward even with the fact that they can both run forever. McKennie's better role is probably an 8, and Adams can give you hellishly good DM, so that's a way to get one of them into the aforementioned goal dangerousness. Berhalter likes Reyna and McKennie in that setup, which isn't bad. A tactics experts will understand this much better than I do, but I'd think the entire point of a nats coach is to put players in situations in which they can prosper, which helps the team prosper.
     
  19. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    okay haha...

    but seriously....creativity and laziness are not codependent qualities in soccer players.

    a player like aaronson plays in redbull pressing system and is also a creative player....(not saying he's THE ANSWER)....but i think your point is that a creative player is either lzay or not creative...but i dont see it that way.
     
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  20. oscar_in_fw

    oscar_in_fw Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Kansas City
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Curious who comes closest to being a creative midfielder on the USMNT ? I also hear this argument that multiple "Big clubs" do not have a true "creative midfielder".
     
  21. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Umm this is YA guys, can we at least please wait until the international break to discuss the shitshow USMNT.

    Wes plays best IMO as a really high DM that presses on turnovers and occasionally offers his heading ability in the box. Defense into offense so to speak. He may not be the spark that breaks down an offense but he can pose a very serious threat to get his head on a ball in the box so his being forward is useful.
     
  22. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will just point out, because I have to, that "Armatures discuss tactics . . . professionals discuss logistics."
     
  23. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Armatures?
    [​IMG]
     
  24. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Dude's scored more league goals in nearly 1 season with Juventus than he did in 3 years at Schalke :thumbsup:
     
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  25. mace

    mace Member+

    Indy 11
    United States
    Jun 5, 2004
    USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And to think he was Schalke’s highest scorer in calendar year 2020 also! Says something about just how bad Schalke was/is.

    And kudos good sir, nice use of the googles!
     

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