2020-2021 UEFA Referee Discussion [R]

Europa League Round of 16, Second Leg

Young Boys - Ajax: MADDEN (SCO) [Attwell (ENG)]
Villareal - Dynamo Kiev: EKBERG (SWE) [Kamphuis (NED)]
Shakhtar - Roma: MATEU LAHOZ (ESP) [Hernandez Hernandez (ESP)]
Arsenal - Olympiacos: DEL CERRO GRANDE (ESP) [Martinez Munuera (ESP)]
Dinamo Zagreb - Tottenham: MASSA (ITA) [Guida (ITA)]
Milan - Man Utd: BRYCH (GER) [Fritz (GER)]
Rangers - Slavia Prague: GRINFELD (ISR) [Reinshreiber (ISR)]
Molde - Granada: JOVANOVIC (SRB) [Dankert (GER), AVAR: Steinhaus (GER)]

Brych for the cracker. He oversaw Man Utd's exit last season at the hands of Sevilla - will history repeat itself?

 

chelsea vs atletico..the azpilculeta last man block on carrasco..no card given..no VAR check..does anyone have a highlight of the clip, and was it red card worthy?

 

In the Chelsea match today, I thought Orsato dished a fairly soft red to Savic of Atletico fairly late in the match. I have to figure out eventually how to post highlights, but I’ll describe. It’s a Chelsea corner and Slavic elbows Rudiger in the sternum and he goes down as if shot.

More talk about a first half non-call non VAR’d play where Azpilicueta puts his hand across Carrasco as the attacker enters the area. I thought it was a little bit of nothing, but some on the halftime panel thought it was a penalty and a sending off. Also thought Orsato did not have any angle (like the TV cameras) to make the call live. Seemingly the review (if any) didn’t take long because when the ball went out, play restarted quickly.

on a side note, no idea why CBS picked up the rights to the CL and showed group stages on cable, but have now relegated the knockout matches to their new streaming service, Paramount+. I think I am now paying for footie on at least 4 different platforms now.

 

It makes no sense whatsoever to not have one of the UCL or UEL matches each day on CBSSN. What else are they airing on the network at 3 PM on a weekday???

 

The Jim Rome Show!

 

NBC is the biggest racket. Some games on NBCSN and then others on "Pay extra" Peacock. Pay twice for the same competition.
The only slight positive is that you can drop the platforms at any time, so don't need to keep paying after the season or competition ends.

PH

 

That fossil is still on radio, let alone TV??

 

It's hard to tell whether that grab was consequential. It was much softer than the striker made it out to be but the thing that bothers me about just letting it go is that it was clearly 100% intentional and desperately cynical and there was clearly enough contact to make an impact of some kind.

Another way to put it: we often hear "that's not enough to be a foul at that level". That's true here w/r/t to the amount/force of contact but not for the manner in which it was generated, IMO. This wasn't just contact that knocked the striker off his stride, it was a reach and grab around the body.

My real gripe is that, if the referee isn't going to give a PK/card to the defender, it probably warrants a YC for simulation to the striker (though I'm guessing that can't be given via VAR if not given in the 1st instance).

 

It can't be proposed by VAR directly. But if VAR recommended review for a possible C&O error in not giving the penalty, the R could (at least in theory) decide there was no PK because it was dive--and give the caution. (If the PK had been given, VAR could recommend review that was C&O error to give the PK and in that review the R could also give a caution.)

But cautions for simulation are generally not give if there is contact that borders on foul, even if the attacker exaggerates the impact. While they theoretically could be, I don't think the Game is ready to try to parse things that finely.

 

Fun fact: I've given a PK AND also YC to the attacker that was fouled. No complaints from anyone involved (or my assessor)

And I'll be the first to correct someone who says "if you're not going to give a foul there, it HAD to be a dive" (in a general sense, not on this particular play). But I also think we 100% need to address situations where contact occurs and is embellished because that's becoming as common as straight dives and is in no way good for the game (it also tends to come with greater histrionics than simply going down under no contact)

Edited to add that if the ref was truly bound from giving a card after VAR review (or even if he didn't need VAR review to reaffirm his decision), I hope he had a word with that guy. That's perhaps what I'm getting at most: the need proactively deal with those situations where there's contact that's not foul and there is embellishment which I'll often do (sometimes even as a side joke to the player along the lines of "c'mon what was that. you're embarrassing yourself and making my life more difficult than it needs to be" but also could be the very public dressing down that allows you to pull the card quickly the next time - or avoid that altogether)

 

I have given that exact same RC as Orsato, though I'm a lowly club ref compared to him. But for me, I like it. Arm used as weapon, not as tool. Feels simple. To those complaining, it seems to me that the issue is this isn't given enough, not that it is given here.

For Azpilicueta, I think it was a foul and RC, but don't think it would be expected in a UCL knockout match. Which is a problem, but Orsato won't be penalized.

 

2:00 mins

i think out of the 4 main considerations: clear, sustained, impactful and expected. The most important one is sustained. I don’t think it’s sustained long enough to have any impact. It’s pretty clear and if the referee were to call it the defender wouldn’t have a leg to stand one. It’s just not what football expects.

 

I absolutely hate Jim Rome for his view on soccer. He’s everything that’s wrong with American sports

don’t forget ESPN+ for USL & MLS and FS1 for US Soccer olympic matches.

 

UCL Quarterfinals

Man City - Dortmund
Porto - Chelsea
Bayern - PSG
Real Madrid - Liverpool

Taylor can only do the Bayern - PSG tie, so will he see PSG yet again in the rematch of last year's Final?
Orsato can fit anywhere, so presumably he won't redo last year's Final?
Brych to handle one leg of the 2018 Final rematch?
Where has Skomina gone?

 

Nice guess. I know I sometimes overestimate the importance of previous history (Kuipers did handle Neymar in the SF last year, after all), but Pep's "He's a special guy who likes to be different" after being sent off by Mateu Lahoz against Liverpool is on too many people's mind that UEFA would want to avoid it, I'd think.

Oliver's only UCL knockout match after the infamous Real Madrid - Juventus in 2018 is a Round 16 first leg Atalanta - Valencia last year. Feels unlikely that he gets arguably the marquee of this round. I'd think Taylor is the preferred choice. PSG certainly would not complain

 

Your idea about Oliver for one of the PSG-Bayern legs seems reasonable. If UEFA is still thinking about him for an on-field role, that would be a really good test.

The one reason I could see Taylor working a quarterfinal is that he may be ineligible for working a semifinal if Man City and either Liverpool or Chelsea win. If it's a Liverpool-Chelsea semi, then he's out for both semis and final unless Dortmund plays and he would get a first leg (not sure how deep UEFA goes to avoid neutrality by country in those cases). The only possible solution to that would be if Liverpool and Chelsea play in a semifinal and UEFA doesn't have to worry about country neutrality. However, when this has happened in the past, I believe UEFA still has gone with referees from other countries (which I agree with doing 100% in continental competitions).

Just based on team form and that three English teams out of 8 remain, it's entirely feasible that Taylor may be done working the UCL if he doesn't work in the quarterfinals. I could also see Turpin's match as a final test for a final if PSG doesn't make it (and, of course, all of the other travel and logistics items that will occur, which I'm not even going to try and predict right now . . .).

Your predictions seem solid. I have to imagine Hategan will stay far, far away from PSG (even though what occurred was absolutely no fault of his own), so having Makkelie on the 2nd leg of PSG-Bayern makes all of the sense in the world.

 

I get what you mean here, it is holding, but he doesn’t really GRAB him. I think if he did get the shirt, it’s a different call.

 

I agree, and, let me reiterate. It is a very hard call to make live from behind, and it might be equally hard from the VAR standpoint.