The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The San Jose Earthquakes soccer team counts the trophies won by the old Earthquakes. Garber made that a condition of their return.
     
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  2. Which phoenix club in England won titles/trophees?
     
  3. What a bunch of frauds.
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just off the top of my head Chester FC has claimed the Chester City titles, and have added to them in their move up the pyramid.

    And of course if we extend it to the UK in general, this happened this weekend:

    As I'm sure you're aware the current Rangers club is not the same organization as the original, yet they are claiming their 55th championship despite being created just 9 years ago.
     
  5. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    If you wanna say "Bethlehem Steel" just say it, there's no Son's of Son's of Ben, or Younger Siblings of the Son's of Ben, or The Beavers or whatnot that's gonna pop up in your messages....
     
  6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_and_liquidation_of_The_Rangers_Football_Club_plc
    The company, running the club was liquidated. not the club itself.
    It says in here the club (business and assets) were sold to a company that continued the club.
     
  7. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like RBC Roosendaal?
     
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  9. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
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  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Initially MK Dons claimed Wimbledon FC's history. Wimbledon fans and former players rejected this. It got resolved following the intervention of the Football Supporters Federation in 2006.
     
  11. Nope. Roosendaal is still the same club. Not comparable to the other situations.
     
  12. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    So MK Dons "renounced" the prior history of Wimbledon, but I don't see anything to suggest that AFC Wimbledon claims it in its list of past honours. Is that correct?
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess the Cosmos are the same team that was formed in 1970 because there's a continuous ownership of the intellectual property, even though for something like 25 years they weren't in any league and there weren't any players.

    How many EFL clubs would still be in business if it weren't for benefactors/charity.

    Notts County only exist because of a £3 million gift, about a £ million raised by Supporters Trust and various contributions by the city.
     
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  14. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    KNVB apparently didn't see it as you do: https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/...-eredivisie-to-the-tenth-tier-and-back-again/

    But I'm guessing this is going to go the same way as the "doesn't matter what you call it" and actual organizations/legal entities involved facts on the matter won't be on par with a poster's opinion ...

    If a holding company or parent company is liquidated the entirety of its portfolio ceases to be anything other than an asset on a piece of paper. Whatever form it had is dead upon liquidation.

    Your wiki quote quite literally states that the "business and assets" of Rangers was sold off ... it mentions that a few times actually. They literally had to reform as a new entity in order to be granted a slot in Scottish football.
     
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  15. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since apparently everyone is ignoring my other example here's a link to the history page on Chester FC's official site, which details the long history of the club dating back to 1885, but also includes:
    which is literally exactly the statement I made that started this sub-thread.

    https://www.chesterfc.com/about/history/

    (Also star striker from the 1910's Arthur Gale could easily pass for a young Alan Tudyk)
     
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  16. Nope. The asset isnot the piece of paper, but the heritage it represents. Without the heritage it represents it's a worthless piece of paper.
    It's very much different from someone popping up in a city, starting a club with the same name and claim it's the continuation.
     
  17. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh look, I was right ... imagine that.

    And actually, THE VALUE of the asset is the heritage it represents. However, that heritage is nothing but that, history, without that piece of paper and legal ownership/documentation. Without said piece of paper ... there's no club for that heritage to prop up. They weren't buying the heritage, but the piece of paper representing the vessel of it. Without the piece of paper that makes the club a thing, the heritage is just historical footnotes and fond memories.
     
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  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Based on that statement Portland Timbers are and are not a continuation of the original team.

    They have the heritage, same name, same colors, same stadium, same fans, but they're a completely different entity.

    On the other hand the Cosmos have the same name, same colors, same entity but a different location and a different set of fans.
     
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  19. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Yes yes yes, we've all watched the finale of WandaVision.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #29595 Paul Berry, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    I've never been in to the MCU.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/honours/

    1894-95 Joined South London League
    1896-97 Joined Clapham League
    Winners Clapham League (unbeaten)
    Winners Herald League
    1900-01 Clapham League Champions
    South Western Cup winners
    Herald Cup winners
    1904-05 South London Charity Cup winners
    1921-22 Joined Isthmian League
    1924-25 Surrey Charity Shield winners
    1925-26 Surrey Charity Shield winners
    1926-27 Surrey Charity Shield winners
    1928-29 Surrey Combination Cup winners
    1930-31 Isthmian League Champions
    London Senior Cup winners
    Surrey Charity Shield winners
    Surrey Combination Cup winners
    South London Charity Cup winners
    South Western Charity Cup winners
    1931-32 Isthmian League Champions
    1933-34 LondonSenior Cup winners
    1934-35 Isthmian League Champions
    F.A. Amateur Cup runner-up
    Surrey Charity Shield winners
    1935-36 Isthmian League Champions
    Surrey Senior Cup winners
    London Charity Cup winners
    1939-40 Surrey Senior Cup winners
    1946-47 F.A. Amateur Cup runner-up
    1948-49 Surrey Senior Cup winners
    1949-50 Isthmian League runner-up
    London Charity Cup winners
    1951-52 Isthmian League runner-up
    (missed title on goal average)
    London Charity Cup winners
    1953-54 South of the Thames Cup winners
    1954-55 Surrey Senior Cup
    1958-59 Isthmian League Champions
    1960-61 South of the Thames Cup winners
    1961-62 Isthmian League Champions
    London Senior Cup winners
    South of the Thames Cup winners
    1962-63 Isthmian League Champions
    F.A. Amateur Cup winners
    South of the Thames Cup winners
    1963-64 Isthmian League Champions
    1964-65 Joined Southern League Division One
    Southern League Division One runner-up
    Promoted to Premier Division
    1967-68 Southern League runner-up
    1969-70 Southern League Cup winners
    1974-75 Southern League Champions
    London Senior Cup winners
    1975-76 Southern League Champions
    Southern League Cup winners
    1976-77 Southern League Champions
    London Senior Cup winners
    1977-78 Joined Football League Division Four
    1978-79 Missed runner-up spot on goal difference
    Promoted to Division Three
    1980-81 Promoted to Division Three
    1982-83 Football League Division Four Champions
    Promoted to Division Three
    1983-84 Football League Division Three runner-up
    Promoted to Division Two
    1985-86 Promoted to Division One
    1987-88 FA Cup winners
    1992-93 Founder members of FA Premiership
    2002-03 Joined Combined Counties League
    2002-03 Supporters Direct Trust Cup winners
    2003-04 Combined Counties League winners
    CCL Premier Challenge Cup winners
    2004-05 Joined the Isthmian Football League
    Isthmian League Division One winners
    Surrey Senior Cup winners
    2005-06 Supporters Direct Trust Cup winners
    2007-08 Lanes Cup winners
    Trevor Jones Memorial Trophy winners
    2008-09 Blue Square Bet South winners
    2009-10 Supporters Direct Trust Cup winners
    2010-11 Blue Square Bet Premier play-off winners
    2013-14 London Senior Cup winners
    2015-16 English Football League Two play-off winners
     
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  22. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Philadelphia Union's USL affiliate called Bethlehem Steel never made any claim to be the same team as the original. However, the recent New York Cosmos did make that claim.
     
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  23. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I was referring to a kind of eye-rolly Ship of Theseus plot point that generated some social media buzz last weekend. You know, the sort of “current events humor” that ages so well.
     
  24. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Good to see they acknowledge the crazy American owner that Chester had at the turn of the century:

    "In July 1999 controversial American, Terry Smith, purchased the club and quickly installed himself as manager. However, Chester struggled at the foot of the table and despite the belated appointment of Ian Atkins the club were relegated to the Conference, after 69 years in the Football League, following a heartbreaking home defeat to Peterborough United on the final day of the season."

    I saw them play Whyteleafe - who were then about level 9 in the pyramid - that season in the FA Cup They should have lost, but Whyteleafe missed a penalty and then lost a replay. I briefly talked to Smith in the bar afterwards. It was very much a wtf moment. A nice snarky comment at the 2 minute mark of this video of the game directed at Smith:

     
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  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Back around that time the Rapids were still running their own message board on their website before everyone just folded into BigSoccer. I'd do a recap every week of Yanks Abroad and when I could get details I'd include the Chester results because of their American manager. That really didn't go well for them.
     

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