Christian Pulisic at AC Milan

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Balerion, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    Or maybe they're just not as "talented" as many want to believe? It's all a question of perspective. Anyone can look great depending on the substrate you measure against. The accolades come far too fast and furious in our easily impressed age.
     
  2. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    The convenient and predictable response when a player's limits gets exposed. I'm sure you were the first to applaud his move to the big stage club...
     
  3. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    Poor baby, I feel just terrible for a 21 yr old without a college degree running after a ball for millions$$$ a year...get a reality check!
     
  4. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wes sucked last year at this point too. Dysfunctional teams do not make for stellar individual results.
     
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  5. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    If we are talking about CP, he has yet to have a manager who did not rate him a regular in the 11. I think Ziyech and Werner are PL level players , Kai not so much. I would concede maybe Covid has him off, but he has never really looked the part in the PL IMO.
     
  6. RidiculousLichaj

    May 18, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I’m Chelsea, I’d be very careful not to write Havertz off too early. The kid was excellent at Leverkusen... don’t want to see another De Bruyne situation.
     
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  7. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I tend to agree. With almost the entire team misfiring to some extent, it seems unwise to point the finger at a single player.
     
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  8. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Frank is the problem. He doesn't know how to use Havertz.
     
  9. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you think he should request a transfer?

    It's an opinion not based in reality... I don't need to know CP to know he has no interest in not fighting it out and performing better. He's got 3.5 years left. He's not going anywhere.

    He could learn a lot as a supersub. He could maintain fitness for a long period of time, come on late and impact matches. It's a fine adjustment to make all things considered.

    Wouldn't be surprised to see Tammy - CHO - Ziyech for the next match. Werner and CP come on if they need firepower in 2nd half. 2 pretty damn good cards to play to be honest.

    I wouldn't play a 2 man CM against a proper side, but maybe Frank feels differently.
     
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  10. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Time will tell if your opinion (or mine) is vindicated. As for telling me what I think, I would invite you to link to some post of mine to support the claim, or alternatively, stick your claim in a dark place.
     
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  11. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Not yet. I have read your posts and know that you and I have different assessments of how well Frank has managed this team this season. In my view, the difference between this year and last year is entirely Frank’s doing. I have read that Roman got him the players he wanted. Frank picks the team and the formations. I agree with the poster above who said that he had never seen a group of professionals have so much trouble with spacing. This team, to me, loos awful in really fundamental ways, despite the presence of talents who thrived elsewhere, or in the EPL in the past. I see this as really bad coaching—like, irredeemably bad.

    I also agree that Pulisic looks tentative. I don’t think it’s injury related. Players look tentative when they are not comfortable in their roles. Again, coaching. All these runs into each other’s areas, stepping on each other’s toes, not seeing the opportunities — all coaching, IMO. Others disagree. But I don’t see any reason to believe that Chelsea is a good home for Pulisic.
     
  12. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Frank has very little to do with the comment "he needs a change of scenery"... because if the mediocre play and results keep up Frank will likely be gone in fairly short order anyways. And CP will still be at Chelsea. Because those moves or potential moves aren't about managers, they are about leverage. What kind of leverage CP has to even think about going somewhere else? Basically none, right now -- he's not producing, he cost a lot, is on decent wages, has over 3 years left on his deal. He won't go anywhere for a considerable period of time whether or not Frank is managing the side.

    Has nothing to do with whether or not he will move on. Ozil wasn't a good home for Arsenal for years now, but he only just moved this window as the contract ran down. Same thing will happen before any CP move.
     
  13. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    You took my comment, alleging nothing more than that CP might do better on a less dysfunctional club populated my more complementary players, and pretended it was about leverage and timing. Then you disagreed with the point you pretended I was making. Did that feel good?
     
  14. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #41714 EruditeHobo, Jan 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
    We always come up against this problem... you rarely want to go beyond wondering aloud, and seem (to me at least) to get perturbed when you get asked why you are expressing something.

    I think most people are here to discuss reality. I certainly am. So wondering aloud "gee whiz he may be better on a great club which is managed real well and has great chemistry" isn't worth much, since it's not likely to happen anytime soon. And that is why I poke at it, not to be rude but because I'm trying to see if you have a reason to wonder that aloud. Do you think it should happen in reality, or no?

    I'm not sure why we have come up against this problem multiple times... it's a message board and I'm asking you when you're basing a statement/opinion on. That seems decidedly in-bounds, to me.
     
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  15. greenarch

    greenarch Member

    Jan 16, 2021
    If you say you think Pulisic should transfer, it's pretty reasonable to to reply to you with why that likely (definitely won't) happen anytime soon.
     
  16. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FYP
     
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  17. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I am happy to go deeper. I am not happy for you to ascribe positions to me as straw men and then refute them. Of course a player's leverage is lower when playing poorly, and higher when playing well. I make no apologies for this particular "surface" observation. Nor do I consider it any less "real" than a fuller discussion that addresses more dimensions of his situation. So I will also reject your attempt to portray me as unwilling to discuss "reality." Did you learn this stuff in jr high debate?

    We come up against this multiple times because my little asides seem to trigger you into these semantic gymnastics. If you want to know what I think about aspects of an issue I don't address, you could try aking.
     
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  18. IIIwitnessIII

    IIIwitnessIII Member

    May 19, 2006
    Pulisic was getting benched midweek anyways it seems. Why would CHO, who has been starting every cup match, suddenly be benched today unless Frank already planned to start him on Wed?

    Pressure is on CHO now to produce consistently.
     
  19. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I said he'd benefit from a change of scene. I subsequently explained what I meant by that. I agree it won't happen any time soon.
     
  20. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you said it - social media is hyperbolic - I think we all just need to realize there is so much we don’t know - coaching situation, role understanding, locker room dynamics, how training looks and what exactly happens etc. What do we know? CP is not playing to what he is capable of in recent games.

    re: other snark (not you) about GF and $ - fact is mentally he is still young and if we don’t think youth takes time to age and get better (consistency) then just being unrealistic.

    never as good or as we bad as we think - CP has quality and he will improve. No I don’t think he needs a change of scenery at all.
     
  21. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #41721 EruditeHobo, Jan 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
    I have asked you questions multiple times, and most of the time they aren't directly answered or you don't respond. In my experience you are often pretty cryptic and/or confusing. That is why I tend to start with a straightforward question, as I did today. Your answer to that was even somewhat cryptic IMO; "not yet"... yet? Should CP even be thinking about a transfer right now (for footballing reasons), is the next obvious question?

    My point is, when I treat your question like a serious one -- as if it pertains to something which might threaten to actually happen in the near future -- that is not me setting up a "strawman" or being triggered by "semantics". And regardless of all that, if you don't think he is likely to get transferred even if he wanted it then we are mostly on the same page. That is really all I was trying to make clear, that specific point. Since based on your posting style, it was at least a little bit unclear.
     
  22. Noriega7

    Noriega7 Member

    Newcastle United
    Dec 27, 2017
    If he had played well and scored this match, I think he would have definitely started the mid week match because Frank can't afford to not start his most in form guys in the League play.

    But I think it may do CP good to get him out of the firing line for now and let CHO get his run since an increase amount of fan in England are starting to whine about it.
     
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  23. Noriega7

    Noriega7 Member

    Newcastle United
    Dec 27, 2017
    I also don't think he needs a change of scenery so soon since he did pretty well last year....He just gonna have to fight it out just like he had to do last year as a bench player.

    The good news is I don't think CHO and Zayech are more talented than him..they're just slightly in better form and should start ahead of him at the moment.....Hopefully, CP will wake up and start producing big.
     
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  24. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CP has to sit at this point IMO.... he was playing well despite not getting the scoring stats but he is obviously out of form now. Missing that sitter just shows how low his confidence is. I can't believe it is the same player we saw after the covid break. How can the form swing that much? Chelsea needs wins and CHO has been getting goals and assists. His ceiling is lower than CPs but at least he is producing something. 2 goals and no assists in 17 appearances.... that is not good.
     
  25. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the form swings because he is still a kid.

    Remember Sancho had a period when he slumped, Reyna is also, Adams has, Dest is now etc. Many young players (remember the term “sophomore slump”) go through these periods. Coaches just have to work it through with them.

    it is actually normal and consistency comes with age, strength, maturity, mental conditioning and experience.
     
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