Liverpool FC vs Man United - EPL - Jan 17 [R]

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by el-capitano, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #151 Red Bird, Jan 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
    I admit we’re missing key players through injuries. And, you’re right Alexander Arnold has been misfiring for much longer than the last draws.

    But even then, the defending isn’t the reason we’re shite in front of goal. I’d understand this if we were not dominating games. We are. The decision—making and performances by Salah and Firmino (he arguably wasted all our best chances today) in front of goal, in particular, have been diabolical for some time. In situations such as these, you need your senior players to raise their game. They just haven’t whichever excuse you can trot out.

    I’m wondering if the last two seasons have somehow caught up with us. Also, we seem to feed off the crowd more than most teams.
     
  2. soccershaggy

    soccershaggy Member+

    May 18, 2003
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Before today they've won nine in row in all competitions.
     
  3. soccershaggy

    soccershaggy Member+

    May 18, 2003
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    And after today they'll be 1 point ahead of us with a game in hand.
     
  4. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    no hyperbole at all mate.

    if the Bitters win their GIH they'll jump over us. If they'd played and won at Villa yesterday, they would have done.

    or ... if Villa win the 3 GIH they have over us, same thing.
     
  5. burning247

    burning247 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    England
    Sep 16, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    What else is there to say, boys? Just in a funk to end all funks. Ironically on the back of a 7 goal romp at Palace.
     
  6. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We need to do something to break out of this ASAP. Back to pressing like crazy or something.
     
  7. bayred

    bayred Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    May 28, 2018
    At this point the priority this season's got to be top four. Cannot miss that goal.
     
  8. el-capitano

    el-capitano Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 30, 2005
    Sydney
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
  9. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I don;t know why everyone is knocking Salah. He is not playing all that badly. Firmino was having a pretty bad day, yes,agreed there. And maybe Minamino after an hour would have been a good idea to replace Bobby F.
    But this game could have been over by half-time with a demoralized Man Utd if we had had a bit of better finishing in our domination. Man Utd were woeful in the first 45 mins. Maybe the whole first hour.

    These front three can turn on a dime and kick back into scoring 4 goals a game (hopefully soon). If they'd scored half that amount with exactly the same amount of possession today everyone would be talking about the gulf between Man Utd and Liverpool. We do need to go on a bit of a winning run, starting now though. At least the next three...

    Playing Jota (and anyone else we need standing) in that stupid Danish game was just soo damn silly .....
     
  10. never walk alone TPK

    Sep 27, 2004
    nairobi, kenya
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Kenya
    A couple of observations:

    1. We are not attacking quickly or having a rapid turnover when winning the ball. I noticed that both Gini and Curtis when he came on would receive the ball with their back facing the opposition turn around and either pass sideways or completely slow down. There were times when Mane made quick runs expecting through balls that did not come. OR,
    2. The forwards are simply not creating any space, pulling out defenders for other players, being creative. This might be because United had an organised defence. In my view, there is a big kick up the butt the forward 3 need.
    3. Minamino- If towards the end of the game we bring on Origi and Milner, it is time to believe that Klopp does not rate Minamino and that experiment is more or less done. He may start/come in for random games but for the biggest games and stages, nothing.
    4. Klopp complained about 5 subs and continues to make very few changes or very late changes. There is a sense of stubbornness about him. It "WILL" work, it "SHOULD" work, but at the end of the day with all the injuries and makeshift defense setup Klopp and the coaches should freshen things up.
    5. It seems like the spark and energy has gone. It has felt like this since the restart post-Covid. I don't know what it is but there is a lethargic, slow, and mental decline.
    6. Short corners and free kicks- Why. Yes we don't have the aerial threat but just dink it in come on. Its been three games at the last minute we played 2 short corners and one short free kick. Lack of confidence.
    7. TAA- I have read that he needs to be benched for Neco or Milner. Has he peaked too early or is there some other issue bothering him. Covid? Lack of rest? No competition?
    8. Fabinho by having him in defence means we cannot play a high line. He used to clear up everything when played in DM. Sign a CB already.
    9. Thank you Allison.
     
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  11. verde-rubro

    verde-rubro Member+

    C.S.Maritimo + Liverpool FC
    Portugal
    Jan 15, 2005
    LONDON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Our midfield are sitting deep covering the back due to VVD and Gomez not on the pitch which is effecting our front line.
     
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  12. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Hendo's assessment.

    “We need to score goals to win games. And I’m not talking just about the front three, by the way.

    “I’m talking about everyone: midfielders, full-backs getting into the box, set-pieces. Everybody can chip in. We need to start doing that quickly.

    “We find ourselves keeping saying that over the last few weeks. That needs to change quickly.”
     
  13. bayred

    bayred Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    May 28, 2018
    Despite Klopp's penchant for multi-positional players paying some dividends now, setting the side up without CM's (that is, moving MF players to the back line) still unbalances our playing strategy pretty significantly. It certainly does no favors for our attackers, who are also out of form with their finishing. I'm in the camp of getting a center back or two to fill the gap. Too tough a league to finish the campaign like this and expect good results.
     
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  14. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    at this point all of the front 3 are snatching at chances. they've each lost their composure.

    every single game now we're up against a packed defence. not just the mid-table or lower teams do it. when was the last time we saw Mo or Mane on a true breakaway? Mo in particular never gets the ball without having 2 or usually 3 defenders hounding him.

    and compounding that problem is Mo's predictability. he almost never releases it quickly to others. he either recycles it to TAA or a midfielders, or - more often - usually tries to battle his way through. but that simply is not working when he's against 2 or 3 guys and it gives the oppo time to get organized.

    he needs to vary his play and have defenders guessing his moves. should focus on being a pure winger for a while, get to the line and put crosses in (midfielders told to get in the box in anticipation!) to get the defenders guessing!

    Mane varies his play a lot more. Mo should take note.
     
  15. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    an interesting take on things [a bit simplistic to me but maybe has some element of truth?] from John Barnes:

    The Reds are used to quick transitions, and Thiago has a tendency to slow the game down and pick the perfect pass, which doesn't quite adhere to Klopp's erratic, heavy metal style.

    "Thiago, who was running the game and was the best player in the first-half, I don't think that necessarily helped the front three," Barnes told talkSPORT.

    "With [Jordan] Henderson and Fabinho in midfield, they just get the ball forward and are much more direct for the three strong-running strikers to get on the ball and go on attack, Thiago slows the game down. When he slowed the game down in tight areas, that is not Mane's game, that is not Salah's game. So we're getting used to a new system, but at the moment it's not working."
     
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  16. bayred

    bayred Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    May 28, 2018
    As others have said, playing Jota in that meaningless game in Horsesdick Denmark was a very expensive mistake.
     
  17. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Shaq was very good yesterday, hope to see him start more games now.
     
  18. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    guardian:
    It has taken a while for the effects of Liverpool’s defensive crisis to filter through this team. But they were present here in a kind of cascade from back to front. This was cause and effect in a very obvious straight line. Take out the defence and replace it with the midfield. Take out the midfield and replace it with another style of play altogether, an entirely different set of rhythms.

    The indirect victim of all this flux is the front line. Klopp has often spoken about the way his hard-pressing midfield is in effect a creative force, with its ability to steal the ball, to suffocate an opponent in dangerous spaces.

    Without that pressure the forward line is required to play a different way, presented with opponents in more settled positions, no longer gasping for breath. By the same process the full-backs, the team’s most creative force, have less space, less cover, less licence to keep on surging into dangerous areas.
    ............
    Liverpool did press with some conviction at times. Chances were missed. Firmino repeatedly clogged the final point of attack with a heavy touch or a poor pass. But this felt like what it was, a Liverpool team learning to play another way on the hoof, and configured into different shapes. The goals will return for the league’s top scorers. But the source of that current mini-drought is, most likely, something deeper.
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/jan/17/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-manchester-united-salah
     
  19. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We’’ll not get anywhere by ducking the issue facing us square in the face— an impotent attack shorn of confidence. The missed chances are ultimately going to be difference between picking and dropping points. It wasn’t even that-/ it was on top of poor decision-making when in great positions. Great teams create and take their chances. We have created some but not taken them. Hence our position.

    In fact, I’d say we missed Jota more than van Dijk yesterday.
     
  20. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    There is something to be said of Klopp's relentlessness and the toll it can take on players both physically and mentally. Salah, Firmino, and Alexander-Arnold are missing their edge arguably for that reason.

    When I talk about his relentlessness, I mean how Liverpool were going strong on almost every front last season and undefeated in the league before defeats against Watford, Atletico, and Chelsea came almost all at once. In Klopp's final season at Dortmund, the club was languishing in relegation zone partly for this reason. He himself was spent by that point and needed a sabbatical.
     
  21. soccershaggy

    soccershaggy Member+

    May 18, 2003
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    We haven't had quick transitions all season. 99% of the time the defense waits for Henderson to drop back and receive the ball before restarting the offense. I'm constantly yelling at the TV for them to play faster and go forward.
     
  22. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    yeah I think that point would have been accurate at the end of the 2017-18 season but not now.
     
  23. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    On the other hand, selling a couple of your best players (Lewandowski and Goetze) and having half of the other good ones injuredover the next year will have a lot to do with that affect..... So, it's hard to say if there's anything in the burnout theory
     
  24. Lemmyfaith

    Lemmyfaith Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    1. We are not attacking quickly or having a rapid turnover when winning the ball. I noticed that both Gini and Curtis when he came on would receive the ball with their back facing the opposition turn around and either pass sideways or completely slow down. There were times when Mane made quick runs expecting through balls that did not come. OR,
    2. The forwards are simply not creating any space, pulling out defenders for other players, being creative. This might be because United had an organised defence. In my view, there is a big kick up the butt the forward 3 need.


    Robbo is guilty of ignoring runs lately, maybe due to lack of confidence, He sees it but settles for the safer sideways pass.
    I am not sure Gini even bothers to look, he just finds the nearest team mate.
    Trent and Hendo see the runs but for some strange reason, their passing's been off for a while now. Hence each time they attempt one, we are put under pressure.
    Don't get me started on Firmino and his casual balls or Salah always getting crowded out. And why in all that is holy has Mane stopped taking shots!!.
    We have shooters, Trent, Shaq, Thiago, Mane, Salah, OX and even Fab. Take some shots once in a while. Hell Lampard made a living from deflected goals. With the box crowded, there is an increased probability that a deflection might occur.
    One more annoying thing is Thiago's passes through the middle for a good shot on goal, is turned sideways to find Trent or Robbo for a cross that's either cleared or blocked.
     
  25. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    This morning I watched the YT video on our Top 100 Goals of the past 10 years (a great compilation!) and it's amazing to see how many were scored from range. These days we often go a whole game and not even attempt one from outside the box.
     

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