Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    As my friend use to say, one swallow doesn't a wife make.

    However, that is the most impressive single game by any 9 candidate we have.
     
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  2. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Saying Josh Sargent is failing because he doesn’t score is one of those intuitive, pithy statements that sounds right but isn’t. And anyone who watches Bremen play knows why, and those who do t can guess why.
     
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  3. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    not its not, its just unlikely
     
  4. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hoppe just debuted at the debutante ball with a huge splash. If he can come close to playing like that henceforth he will be involved. We’ll just have to let it play out.
     
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  5. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    We all understand why but to be fair, it is like a goalie who has a high goals allowed avg. The fact they get no help is a shame but at some point, a person who is preforming must be given a look.
     
  6. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    That’s like saying that a the guy who only has knives isn’t good enough in gun fights.
     
  7. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Who’s saying he’s failing? He could simply get passed by.
     
  8. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    He may take some people out but I am not leaving the gunslinger at home.
     
  9. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    You misunderstand the analogy. The guns are provided by others. If he had service he’d have numbers.

    But never mind. I am sure he will get a look unless GB is even dumber than I thought.
     
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  10. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    That’s not provable. That’s only your unsubstantiated opinion. There’s a bunch of guys in Europe who are all pretty neck and neck. No one has done anything to stand out yet. Hoppe just raised the ante. Strikers are paid to score goals and if one guy is and another isn’t, the one scoring will have the advantage.
     
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  11. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh, both sides of the argument have their points. But what really matters is two things.
    1. What the coaching staff sees in ALL the film. They are way better at evaluating a player and understanding if their lack of scoring is due to their poor positioning, runs, or shooting. Or are they in the right place, are they making the right runs, and just not getting any service. You don't just get that by watching a game or two or some highlights or looking at the stat sheets.
    AND
    2. What the coaching staff sees in training camps by the player surrounded by the pieces they would play with for the Nats. None of us see any of that.
     
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  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    whats "close" to that? how do we quantify his playing close to that, or well, or better/worse than sargent (not picking on sarge, its just as close to an apples-to-apples any an vs in the pool)?

    this isnt in any way a call out, or specific to you- its just a conversation to be had. on one hand bremen is somehow a "better" team (according to the table), on the other hand lot of people are suddenly under the impression harit is basically an unrecognized xavi or something...

    ive been making fun of peoples overzealous defenses of sarge this season, but hoppes game- even if he goes on to a dempsey or mcbride-esque career- is going to be on his highlight reel the day he retires.

    we cant predict how their seasons/near term careers will go (though we will certainly try- very dumbly no doubt)- but what maintains the level of excitement for hoppe? how many scoreless matches before the comparison shifts to haji wright or something (cause he doesnt have the ynt "credentials" as a foundation)?

    clearly its not the 50 or however many goals you could (dumbly) extrapolate hes "on track" for, but a goal every three matches? double digit goals this season (the low end of consensus expectations coming into the season for sarge)? minutes played (basically sargents output)? playing a big role in schalke somehow staying up?

    its a unique situation, and really interesting to me.
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would say that just like Sargent if he keeps making runs and makes enough good shots when he is passed the ball. It won't be his fault if the runs aren't rewarded. He should also work on other aspects of his game he is weaker on and yes they eye test will be important on some of these. I will point out he may look better now because he is with at least a few better players who do see his runs and make the correct pass than when he was with the younger age. Probably why some unheralded youth players are better in the pros and coaches and talent scouts know what to look for while a lot of fans only look for stats without realizing that a player may be unable to reproduce around better players or do better around better players.
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yeee-up.
    I will say that his hat trick this weekend made Hoppe one of the highest scoring teenagers in any top 5 league. What sets Hoppe apart from this group is that he was no youth star. Matthew Hoppe has never appeared in a US jersey in any age group. He has zero USYNT caps.

    Its not particularly common. We just need to take a deep breath and see more. The kid scored 1 goal in his 16 games in the German 4th division this season. We've seen a lot more of Josh Sargent. When we see game after game, shortcomings are exposed.
    1348314527859924993 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  15. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    yes, we have opposing unsubstantiated opinions. I know that at least one of us can except that truth. Maybe both.
     
  16. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He looked unremarkable in the highlight vids made before the hattrick. But they also didn't show him getting the ball around the area. Last week, around the area, he was deadly. No goal mouth scrambles. No deflections. No lucky shots. No goalkeeper howlers or dodgy defending. Those goals were pure class. Most strikers would have only converted 1 of those 3 chances. Maybe Harit was the key to getting him the ball in those good positions.
     
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  17. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think every rational person knows it’s one game, and one game shouldn’t make or break someone... but like the point you’re making, it seems that the most important thing is that he’s building on his performances. Each game he seems like he’s improving. Does that mean he’s bound to have a stinker? Of course. But if he can keep improving, at the rate that he’s improving, and build on the foundation that he’s laid... we will have a very special player.

    Now, we’ve mentioned that he never played for youth teams... I want to say to that, just like some elite youth prospects fail to make it, there are always players who bloom later in their game. Even at 19 years old, he’s still growing into his body.
     
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  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He's 6'2". Bigger attackers to tend to bloom later. And he'd apparently been a midfielder until 2 years ago.

    His background and that performance just seem mutually exclusive, though, especially at this stage of his career. If he never scores another goal in the Top-5 I would not be surprised. If he goes on to be a star striker at a big club I also would not be surprised. All possibilities seem equally real!
     
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  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Hoppe led the DA in goals in the 2018-2019 season, I believe, and went to Schalke in June of 2019.

    He's been a striker for at least 2.5 years, and I suspect a bit longer.

    He had a monster DA year, but only had 5 goals in 20 matches for the U19s last year, so it will be interesting to see if this is development/adjustment or whether it's a fluke.

    The finishes were very good, and he's making excellent runs, so it seems like there may be something very good there. But it also feels a bit early to be putting him in a Best XI for me.

    -------

    Someone also mentioned the youth teams -- we should get used to players without youth team experience becoming real options at 19, 20, 21. There's only so many youth team slots, and if we have a talent explosion like a lot of us expect, this isn't going to be uncommon.
     
  20. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In highlights of his previous Schalke appearances, he may have been unremarkable but imo he did seem to take some pretty good spaces. This week, on each goal, the highlights show him keeping an eye on (1) Harit, (2) watching to stay onside and (3) showing for space he was taking. When he knows he has the space, in each instance, he points to where he wants the ball, and Harit delivers.

    You can see it pretty clearly here:


    He looks like he understands what going on, at least against Hoffenheim.
     
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  21. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    There hasn't been a youth team camp or game in almost a year.

    Players outside of the MLS academies tend to get overlooked. Clark is another with no YNT caps who was at Barca. Those that go to Europe at 18, will also miss many youth camps. Every outfield player, in the last U17WC team but one from a USL side and one from Germany, was from an MLS Academy

    If your birth year is not the one that goes to the U17WC, you will also have less youth team involvement.

    Hoppe was a big prospect and fell off the radar because he went a long time without doing anything to stay on the radar. It might have been an adjustment to Germany problem, which happens to many. In which case, his resurgence would be more logical.

    It is amazing how this all happens on social media. Kid has a good game out of nowhere. Everyone is happy! People say he should start for USMNT, people push back say the kid hasn't done anything. People say other players he would be competing with to start with the USMNT are terrible. People push back saying the kid is terrible. Incredible and sad. Just enjoy it!

    But a good rule of thumb would be that someone should have many more posts on the Breakout thread before they get posts on this thread haha.
     
  22. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Wow. I love the body language of that kid, and I love through balls up the middle. And Schalke has quite a keeper.
     
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  23. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    One Spanish kid, one French kid, two English kids and two Americans....

    I invite us to pause and reflect a moment on that.
     
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  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup.

    There are a lot, lot, lot, lot of youth players that score tons of goals in the DA. I can run down a big long list of FC Dallas examples going way back to Ruben Luna. It is far, far, far, from a sign of future success. Sheer goalscoring stats in the DA have no meaning.

    Hoppe has been on the radar of youth watchers for a long time, but there's also been skepticism regarding him for a long time. But hell........................people should go back and read some of the posts about Gio Reyna in the youth forum from a few years ago. Some of these so-called youth experts had some astonishingly bad opinions and prognostications on him. So what do the skeptics know? Squadoosh.

    All I know is that I just saw Hoppe score a hat trick in the Bundesliga. The proof is in the pudding. Now we'll see what comes next. He scored that hat-trick against Hoffenheim, who have a terrible, awful, horrific defense. You know who has a worse defense than them in the Bundesliga? Schalke. Oh, and Mainz. So let's see how Hoppe does against a competent defense this weekend against Eintracht Frankfurt.

    Players are popping up all over the place that were on-the-outside-looking-in with regards to our USYNTs. Such is the depth in our program. Its a great thing. Hoppe was indeed prolific for Barca AZ, but that didn't get him a look with the US U17s. That's because the forwards on his U17 cycle were Sargent, Weah, Akinola, and Reynolds.
     
  25. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Schalke has a bad defense? I thought there problem was their midfield and creating chances. That always puts a ton of pressure on defenders because your team never has the ball.
     

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