2020 MLS Playoffs Conference Semifinals

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by Scrabbleship, Nov 28, 2020.

  1. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    November 29 – 3:00 PM ET
    Orlando City SC vs. New England Revolution
    Exploria Stadium – Orlando
    TV: ABC, TSN
    • Referee: Alex Chilowicz
    • Assistant Referees: Jason White, Ian McKay
    • 4th Official: Joseph Dickerson
    • VAR: Chris Penso

    November 29 – 8:00 PM ET
    Columbus Crew SC vs. Nashville SC
    MAPFRE Stadium – Columbus
    TV: ESPN, TSN
    • Referee: Armando Villarreal
    • Assistant Referees: Andrew Bigelow, Cory Richardson
    • 4th Official: Nima Saghafi
    • VAR: Jon Freemon

    December 1 – 9:30 PM ET
    Seattle Sounders FC vs. FC Dallas
    Lumen Field – Seattle
    TV: FS1, TSN
    • Referee: Robert Sibiga
    • Assistant Referees: Frank Anderson, Jeremy Kieso
    • 4th Official: Fotis Bazakos
    • VAR: David Gantar

    December 2 – 9:00 PM ET

    Sporting Kansas City vs. Minnesota United FC
    Children's Mercy Park – Kansas City
    TV: FS1, TSN
    • Referee: Drew Fischer
    • Assistant Referees: Kathryn Nesbitt, Peter Manikowski
    • 4th Official: Victor Rivas
    • VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
     
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  2. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    It’s pretty amazing that Chilowicz has gone from what looked like being stuck on the 4th track to a Semifinal. Good for him.
     
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  3. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Adding for the full VAR crew:

    11/29/20 – Eastern Conference
    Orlando City vs New England Revolution
    Exploria Stadium (3PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Joe Dickerson
    VAR: Chris Penso
    AVAR: Jose Da Silva

    Columbus Crew vs Nashville
    MAPFRE Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Cory Richardson
    4TH: Nima Saghafi
    VAR: Jon Freemon
    AVAR: Adam Garner
     
  4. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Correct decision on the red card (no brainer). Perfect positioning to catch the cleat into the calf.

    Add to that a running start.
     
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  5. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Chilowicz saw that really well. Not sure I think Nani should only have gotten a yellow card but that's been covered in previous weeks.
     
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  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I honestly don't know why Nani gets such light treatment from MLS officials. I don't even think the likes of Beckham or Henry got away with what Nani gets away with.
     
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  7. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Chilowicz is putting up with waaaaay too much dissent from Orlando IMO.
     
  8. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    that's the story of MLS. no one gets a caution for dissent
     
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  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #9 MassachusettsRef, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
    Wow, that was something.

    The Dike yellow card at 53' was a big moment that didn't necessarily feel like one at the time. A really stupid, dumb late sliding challenge on the goalkeeper that caused hand-to-foot contact (you see DIke shake off his hand in apparent pain) that rightfully gets a yellow. Nani and Dike both protest, though Nani appears to be protesting it's a dive while Dike mouths "I didn't touch him" even though, his hand contacted Turner during Turner's follow-through.

    60' is an asburd challenge and probably the worst SFP red card we've seen in the league for awhile. If this was any other league, we'd be talking about whether to upgrade to a 4-match ban or more. Urso, Nani and Smith all make deliberate contact with Chilowicz in follow-up. Carlos and Jansson are both guilty of dissent, too (Jansson two times within 30 seconds). And it appears Pereya pushes an opponent over after already being sent off (maybe with help from Uri?). Just a mess. That should be a total and utter embarrassment for Orlando and MLS should throw the book at the club. I am not holding my breath.

    I flagged the 53' incident because of what happened at 71'. Buksa, on a yellow, is pursuing Rowe across the goal area as the keeper dribbles the ball from right to left. There is a collision and both players go down. AR flags and Chilowicz whistles for foul coming out. Understandable based on what we see. However, Orlando then immediately surrounds Chilowicz demanding the 2CT on Buksa. They are citing both the 53' yellow at the other end and, in their warped minds, the red from 11 minutes earlier. Jansson and Urso are in his ear (though Urso's probably doesn't rise to the level of dissent, to be fair). Nani shows up on the scene to dissent vociferously. And then Dike sprints most of the length of the field to make contact and get in Chilowicz's face. Mueller comes in late to dissent, too. To give Chilowicz credit, he doesn't get influenced. But again, MLS needs to throw the book here. Dike and Nani should have been off there (and Nani earlier).

    Here's the best part... when you actually watch the replay, you would be hard-pressed to defend calling the foul against Buksa in a vaccuum. He really doesn't even challenge Rowe. I totally understand it needs to be a foul coming out for game control purposes, but upon watching the replay it's clear as day that Rowe senses the situation and wraps Buksas up with something that borders on a scissors tackle. It would have taken the sort of guts that I've never seen from any referee to sanction Rowe there, but boy was he guilty of a cynical ploy to try to get Buska sent off.

    75' was another nice little flare up. Clear-as-day reckless yellow card to Urso, still protested to varying extents by Jansson, Rowe, Carlos and Nani.

    As was alluded to, I can't help what might have been here if Nani's referee assault in previous weeks was dealt with or if he wasn't treated with absolute kid gloves writ large. That was ugly. Chilowicz handled it probably about as well as he could have given the historical expectations for MLS playoffs and this being his first big match like this, but... that doesn't mean it was good for the league or good for future situations officiating Orlando. I'll say one more time that the book needs to be thrown at Orlando.
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, not no one... Nani did get a yellow for his triple dissent and ref assault!
     
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  11. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    An excellent game by Chilowicz, in my view. Spot on 3 KMIs with particular emphasis on the red card. Also very pleasing is that I don’t think the remonstrations of the Orlando players influenced his decisions at all, he didn’t take the easy way out by gifting Orlando some “game management calls,” very strong personality/character from Chilowicz.

    As others have said my only criticism is that he didn’t take a harder line on the mobbing and dissent, but this is more MLS’s fault than his own because historically they have been very lenient about this sort of behavior. I agree that MLS should come down hard on Orlando, but I doubt they will. This Orlando team has major issues with its behavior and treatment of referees for many years now, but MLS has done nothing. What’s allowed is encouraged!

    On the Buksa/Rowe incident, I don’t think it’s really similar at all to the Dike challenge other than that both involve a goalkeeper with the ball at their feet. Dike slid in very late, Buksa was upright and any contact was actually caused more by Rowe in that case. Just because these plays look similar doesn’t mean they should be punished the same, they are very different challenges I think.

    Very very impressed with Chilowicz overall. I doubt there will be another whistle for his these playoffs but he should be rewarded for this performance. I would consider him for 4O on the final.
     
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  12. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    It's sad that the MLS will not take a stand against dissent, especially in the playoffs. It just seems to make other games harder as players think this is how to behave.

    Maybe this is a dumb idea, but if a bunch of players are surrounding my referee when I'm the AR within 30 yards or so, I'm on the field trying to part the crowd and provide support. Should this be an instruction with referees shoulder to shoulder putting up a unified front? Or would it be too confrontational?
     
  13. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    A the professional level maybe, but definitely wouldn’t fly at the grassroots level where things aren’t all recorded and soccer moms could cry bloody murder on a referee who touches any player with even a little force.
     
  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If there were any justice Nani would get a 4-6 ban to start next season just to make up for all the times he's gotten off with kid gloves.
     
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  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Orlando eliminated, I think Pereyra is destined to get an additional suspension from the DisCo, but that's always difficult to predict.

    As for Nani et al, I sincerely doubt there will be any further repercussions (save fines for mass confrontation).
     
  16. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ve said it before, I’ll continue to say it. Bumping a referee like we saw multiple times has to be an automatic send off. Any other professional league in the US would have multiple ejections and multi-game suspensions. Why soccer (not just MLS) continues to allow this baffles me.

    Make this an automatic VC or referee abuse send off with a multiple game suspension, and this starts to go away. It has to stop. The SFP send off was an easy call.
     
  17. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    agreed, sadly it's not limited to MLS, but they seem to be among the most lenient for sure. PRO should be advocating for their officials
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The officials need to be advocating for themselves. This is not all on PRO. Maybe not even on PRO at all, to be honest. A lot of work went into a new Ref Assault Policy during the last offseason. PRO was completely bought in. But it doesn't matter one bit if the referees who get assaulted don't reach for red cards. Maybe hard to blame Chilowicz here because it's the post-season and no one drew the line in the regular season this year. But there were instances this year where referees were there own worst enemy on this sort of behavior.
     
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  19. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    MLS was actually fairly strict about this recently... in 2019 I think we saw Saghafi send someone off for this at least once at Portland (and I think twice?) and Penso as well to a Houston player for a similar “chest bump.”
     
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  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just want to be clear that I don't think they are similar in any substantive way.

    But the point cannot be lost that they are similar to the Orlando players and that's what made it such a flashpoint and a management nightmare (doubly so since it was 11 v 10). You have two situations with two attackers making two late "challenges" after the ball is gone that cause two opposing goalkeepers to go to ground in apparent pain. So Orlando players, knowing their own player got cautioned at the other end, are going to demand "equal justice" in the second instance, particularly when they know it would result in a second caution.

    As I laid out, Dike's tackle was reckless and foolish while Buksa's was barely a foul (and might have been misconduct on the goalkeeper), so they are quite different in matter of fact. But facts don't make the management of Orlando players any easier in a match like this.
     
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  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. The referees are empowered to act. And PRO spent time making it clear in the offseason that they would back them up on pursuing suspensions. But the referees have to act. Some have in the past. Not enough do regularly.
     
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  22. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    PRO referees don't act because there is no precedence for it. You rarely if never see the BS we saw today from Orlando punished at the top levels domestically or internationally.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure that is fair. Depends on the competition. And the culture therein.

    Anthony Taylor didn't blink when giving Vidal a 2CT for double dissent this past week 30 or so minutes into a huge UCL match. Obviously once one is dealt with, the others maybe don't happen... but I have no doubt Taylor would have sent off Nani and Dike and would have at least cautioned Urso and Smith for dissent, if not sent them off for the physical contact. I don't think Taylor would be an anomaly among top UEFA referees either.

    In some other competitions or geographic locales (including CONCACAF) you're absolutely right. But there's no good reason why MLS can't be more like the UCL than the places where what we saw tonight is more accepted or even commonplace.
     
  24. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    Turn those kids into Peter Pan! YEET!
     
  25. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given what we have seen from an "Independent" Review Panel that time and agains rules in favor of players and against referees and the DisCo, I honestly can't blame Chilowicz for what he did regarding the mass confontation. This falls squarely on the league and these panels for not throwing the book at players for clear instances of bad conduct toward referees. At some point, referees will just say "(expletive) it" and just try to get out of these situations as best they can knowing any misconduct they issue will be overturned on appeal. It's a joke.
     

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