Very telling things about the current state of college soccer

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Sandon Mibut, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. JoeSoccerFan

    JoeSoccerFan Member+

    Aug 11, 2000
    JSF - Confused :confused::confused::confused:
     
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  2. OverseasView

    OverseasView Member+

    Olympique Lyonnais
    France
    Feb 3, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Me too, I understood nothing……. (I thought that it was because of my lack of knowledge of US colloquialism….:confused: and of my overseas' culture:eek:)
     
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  3. fanatica

    fanatica New Member

    LAFC
    United States
    Feb 6, 2020
    Ivy's?
     
  4. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not it, but what a bomb they dropped yesterday.

    No fall sports seasons at all for the 2020-21 season.
     
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  5. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    But then for what purpose will these colleges themselves continue to exist?
     
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  6. The Big Dig

    The Big Dig Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Sep 25, 2020
    Any updates on this? Sounds like another program is getting cut but I haven't seen anything come out.
     
  7. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, I would say it, but I do not want to be the one to break the news to players -- especially on a forum. I just cannot do that. Hopefully they will get to have a spring season for one last hoorah.
     
  8. jiggaman123

    jiggaman123 Member

    Jul 2, 2008
    Could it be Radford?
     
  9. First Time Finish

    Nov 4, 2016
    That he wasn’t able to hire an assistant and the release makes no mention of a national search seems indicative of where that program may be headed.
     
  10. winster

    winster Member

    Jul 7, 2008
    Club:
    Besiktas JK
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a strong moral argument (I would almost call it an imperative) to quickly publicize any reliable evidence that a college is cutting a sport.
    By waiting for an official announcement we are just allowing the administration extra time to come up with a bunch of BS excuses for why they are cutting programs.
    If the student athletes read a blog post saying their program might be cut, that affords them the opportunity to ask hard questions before the entire school's leadership retreats into their ivory towers and issues some bland PR statement. Also, it gives boosters and alumni a chance to fundraise so that the admin can't present cancellation as a fait accompli.
     
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  11. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heard a pretty good rumor that Ivy League is even talking that they won't be playing fall 2021 soccer.
     
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  12. JoeSoccerFan

    JoeSoccerFan Member+

    Aug 11, 2000
    not disputing what you heard, but given the vaccine outlook timing including distribution issues that decision would be harsh in my opinion.
     
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  13. jiggaman123

    jiggaman123 Member

    Jul 2, 2008
    That would mean that the Ivy League would not have football either and I can't see that for another year
     
  14. dogbone

    dogbone Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    The Ivy's are unique in the fact that they have, for the next year, announced that they will continue with their plan. The plan was freshmen and juniors first semester on campus and then sophomores and seniors on campus the second semester. They plan to continue this through 2021-2022. Hence they feel that they won't have enough players on campus. That is why the did it.

    Next, from Ponchat's dire prediction of the other shoe dropping. Right now at the Division 1 level there are 206 teams. I believe that there are a larger number - @ 10 - that are in jeopardy. I would put the ones that are state schools with Football at the top of the list. The next factor is are they in their mother conference or an associate member of a conference, and finally, are they a state school.

    Since Ponchat's list, the last three schools to drop D1 men's soccer are all football schools. Furman and Coastal narrowly missed out on the list because of the history and longevity of their coaches (IMO). I agree that the casualty list for schools will grow. I hope and pray I am so wrong.

    I just think that the new federal administration takes office, it will be a dark winter that could see most college athletics shut down. Look at what D 1 has done. Dead period until April 15. Not D 2 or 3, why? Basketball tournament and Bowl Games. They don't want any one going out and brining back the spread to campus. It is going to have a huge impact going forward. I believe that the powers that be, want and need the basketball tournament or the NCAA may face austere ramifications. The trickle down will flow to the campus' and limit opportunities in a lot of areas.

    The end all and be all will be Olympic Sports will suffer to save the revenue sports. It will for sure cause a binding of the belt for a lot of programs.
     
  15. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice thorough post.

    One quick addition, April 15 isn't just a random date either -- it's NCAA football evaluation period begin date. The powers that be want to ensure bowl games, March Madness, AND the evaluation period can go off smoothly.

    DII and DIII don't have that to rely on -- outside of the money they receive from NCAA. If the next rumors are true, DII and DIII won't be having their fall "spring" seasons either.
     
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  16. Fish On

    Fish On Member

    Oct 22, 2016
    Club:
    AC Mantova
    NCAA will adopt new legislation- Only need 7-8 sports to be NCAA D1. Rest will be clubs.
     
  17. dogbone

    dogbone Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    With the recent recommendation of Knight Commission for the Football Bowl Subdivision to break free from the NCAA and have their own rules, but leave all other sports under the NCAA. I would hope that Fish On would be wrong.

    However, the data does point to a major contraction of all athletic opportunities across the board. I think that 7 or 8 is on the small side, but 12 plus football (as exempt in the count), that would be acceptable to most schools. The outliers will be private tuition driven schools that will still have the need for student athletes as revenue. The other worry would be title IX. So in the 12 Plus one thought, one would have 5 plus football male sports, and 7 female sports. Basketball would be 2 (1 male - 1 female). Then you have to pick your sports that survive.

    I would speculate, and this is just conjecture, that we will see a lot of sports cross divisional lines like cycling, bowling, rifle, archery, and table tennis. I would expect that to survive there will have to be a new structure.

    This is my personal opinion. College soccer needs to be reorganized, and it will never happen and this is just a pipe dream, college soccer needs to be USL. Instead of payment there is scholarship. Organize teams by regional alignment and have 3 levels with promotion and relegation. Sure be a "Club" structure like Fish was saying, but then it would be about can college soccer as a business model survive by the product on the field. Who would fund it, who would allow it to be a sport, and who would drop it under this model? Just spit-balling a radical ideal, but I agree unless there is some change, the country tune "Hard Times". They are a coming for men's soccer.
     
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  18. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still feel that there is a place for college athletics and there will be a lot of universities that won't just go chopping programs.

    The universities know athletic programs are a source of community pride in the institution. But, most importantly serve as a valuable resource to grow the alumni base and even more important...philanthropic giving.

    There's no doubt about it, athletics are an incentive to continue educational paths. It's really the only way to truly continue to compete and enjoy a sport that players have played/trained for most of their lives. Club sports do not have the same incentive as the intercollegiate sport offering.

    Institutions that will cut are facing some hard times. Those hard times vary for some -- institutional debt, budget cuts, or simply just trying to keep up with the Joneses (as a few examples). In the end, there is too much money spent in [college and] college athletics and no one wants to address that. Students and their families want everything given to them and it has to be the nicest there is. People are buying experiences instead of creating experiences. They are given EVERYTHING without truly earning much or achieving much.

    I know a soccer program that had a $80,000 yearly equipment budget. That is extremely unnecessary. It's present in every aspect of major college sports. Fix this, and we'll see a lot of issues resolved.
     
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  19. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Your distinction is either intramural versus intercollegiate or club versus varsity rather than club versus intercollegiate. I suspect you meant club versus varsity.

    IMO, club could offer the same incentive for students to continue competing and to drive the fund raising, but it probably has to be uniform across a conference or nation wide. For example, IU lacrosse isn't going to compete with Ohio State or Penn State or Notre Dame for athletes or fundraising largely due to the club/varsity difference. But if all those programs were club, it would equalize things between them.

    I am a former intercollegiate club athlete (IU Waterski represent) FWIW.
     
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  20. Fish On

    Fish On Member

    Oct 22, 2016
    Club:
    AC Mantova
    In Higher Ed when cuts have to be made they first look at their mission statement. From Dartmouth to Drexel ncaa d one- I seriously doubt any mission statements include-“we will provide a competitive athletic experience for our students.”
     
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  21. BigBear

    BigBear Member

    Apr 20, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No...but they don't mention jazz bands, debate clubs, or student governments, either. What you do see is a variety of broad phrases like "beyond the classroom," "life lessons," "well-rounded," "diverse backgrounds," "meaningful experiences," etc. These phrases open the door for the college/univ. to do just about anything they want and it will fall under the mission statement.
     
  22. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    These don't really cost the university that much either either.
     
  23. PoetryInMotion

    Feb 7, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I don’t think there’s *ANY* evidence to suggest this is true, at least yet. I consider myself at least fairly plugged in with some administrators and coaches at the NCAA DI level and this hasn’t even been discussed on a national level. Again, not saying it won’t happen, but there not going to all of a sudden go from 14 sports to 7 or 8, they just aren’t. I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong if I’m wrong, just am not hearing this, haven’t heard this, don’t think it’s logical (not that the NCAA cares about logic). Maybe your sources are just more well placed and informed than me, but I’m at a mid-major and haven’t heard this at all.

    I do think you’ll see football go their own way even more so than they already have (outside of NCAA rules/jurisdiction), and you could see in the next decade a reshuffle of the P5 in all sports, but it’ll be football first.
     
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  24. PoetryInMotion

    Feb 7, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    They’re * excuse my poor grammar.
     
  25. dogbone

    dogbone Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    PoetryinMotion football will go their own way. Here is the article that I referenced a few days ago. It says Football should be its own stand alone regulatory body.

    https://www.knightcommission.org/20...ning-structure-for-the-sport-of-fbs-football/

    The question will be how this new reality will trickle down to other sports. The P5 have a problem of money. They need football to make more money so that they can compete and make more money. In addition, they don't want to have any chance to share money with the NCAA. They don't want oversight of football but they do want the money from the basketball tournament.

    The problem seems to be if we leave in all sports, will they get games with peasants of college athletics in other sports. Yes people would watch a P5 National Basketball tournament but it would lose the mystique of the #16 teams tilt with the #1 seed with the 1 in 200 chance of an upset. They will miss the darlings of the dance Florida Gulf Coast's deep run. They could make it a good tournament, but it would not get the revenue as the current format. The real crux is they want their money from football and a share of basketball money.

    Either way football will be autonomous soon and then we will see how many other D 1 FBS teams look to get either their teams up to that standard to join the club or how they restructure the rest. Then once that cart starts down the hill, my question becomes, what will be the damage to other sports? What will happen to other opportunities, not only for soccer teams, but all sports. Case in point is William and Mary. They dropped 7 sports. Got sued, reinstated women's teams, but they refused reinstatement with out the male counter part sports. The WM reversed course to reinstate all sports.

    Will this be the trend over the next decade? I am betting that there will be a contraction of opportunities for a great many athletes. I feel like that the P5's see everyone else as expendable for their greater good. They are the elites that look down on the poor unwashed masses and say - as long as we have more let them eat cake.
     
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