My point is that reports in the press showed up saying that a significant number of dual-national depth options (mostly fourth or fifth or sixth choice players) were exploring options with other national teams. The next thing you know they had meetings with Southgate. And suddenly all of those guys were good enough for caps. And not in kick-the-tires friendlies. The English National Team cynically put them straight into cap-tying Nations League games (Except it appears James has only played in a friendly, which is an acceptable way to do it.)
It’s acceptable to do what Southgate and England feel they need to do with their players though and for what it’s worth James has played in the Nations league, not just friendlies. England’s Dual National players are constantly being linked to other Countries all the time so does that mean we shouldn’t call them up just because other Countries want them to play for them. Out of all those players you mentioned only Maitland-Niles will probably be on the fringes but when we have injuries and suspensions he and others will be called upon. I really don’t see the issue, if they don’t want to play for England or don’t feel English then it’s up to them, they can always decline the invitation.
This is a bizarre thread! Whats the OP's problem with England exaclty??? He doesn't like Southgate picking English players for the National team!? lol. Is this some kind of a joke!? Southgate can pick and play who the bloody hell he wants to, its his job! As for Reece James, well he is a fabulous right back, I expect him (as an English man) to be playing in that position for HIS country for many years to come, he has a LOT of competition at that particular position mind. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...nt-riches-right-best-chance-making-Euros.html
FTR: Jamaica Ainsley Maitland-Niles Kalvin Phillips Reece James Mason Greenwood (obviously, one of these things is not like the others) Mason Holgate had a meeting and has not appeared, for whatever reason. Maybe a good sign for Jamaica. Is he injured? Ireland Jack Grealish Patrick Bamford possibly on his way.
“English manager selects English players to play for England” isn’t one of the the hotter scandals I’ve heard.
How dare Southgate pick these English born, bred and raised in England Englishmen for England! Ainsley Maitland-Niles - born Goodmayes - ENGLAND Kalvin Phillips - born Leeds - ENGLAND Reece James - born London - ENGLAND Mason Greenwood - born Bradford - ENGLAND Mason Holgate - born Doncaster - ENGLAND Jack Grealish - born Birmingham - ENGLAND Patrick Bamford - born Grantham - ENGLAND Theyre all English, born here, raised here why wouldn't they want to play for their country? I meas seriously what point are you trying to make here!?
I think what we're confused by is the notion that they cynically called these players up. Most of these players are performing at a high level for big clubs. They were worthy of callups and inclusion. And they were all born in England. For me the overwhelming majority of players know where they stand in the pecking order for national teams. Jack Grealish had the option of England or Ireland. There was seemingly a tussle as both nations vied for his services. Ultimately, it was Jack Grealish's choice.
This is a very strange list, you do realise that all of the players you’ve listed, have at least one parent born in England as well as having been born there themselves? 7 of the 11 who started England’s last nations league match could play for another national team, do you have an issue with all of those as well? On the point of Musah, he’s obviously had a very transient childhood, I believe he qualifies for Ghana and possibly Italy also. If I were to hedge my bets I’d say he’d be more likely to commit to Ghana in the long term.
Ainsley Maitland-Niles was one of the few English players anywhere playing LWB, and for Arsenal no less, at a time when Chilwell was out injured. The only other obvious candidate would have been Saka, who is a 19 year old dual national. Kalvin Phillips is at worst our third choice DM, and Winks was injured at the time. Reece James is Chelsea's first choice RB and arguably the best we have when you balance what he does at both ends of the pitch. A better attacker than AWB and a better defender than TAA. Mason Greenwood is first choice for United and scored 17 goals last season. Mason Holgate wasn't called up. Jack Grealish is good enough to have the entire team built around him in my opinion. Bamford hasn't been called up.
It depends on the player. Maitland-Niles is 23 and a utility player for Arsenal. WhoScored ranked him #235 in the EPL last year. Phillips had never played a minute in the EPL when he met with Southgate. He seems to have moved from the "Great debut!" phase to the "Is Southgate using him correctly?" phase of the petering national team career cycle. Neither of those moves can be seen as normal for a WC semifinalist. From watching Pulisic, I take it James has had a strong start to the season. But he has been 4th on the England depth chart. For Jamaica, they would difference makers. If they had chosen to play for them. Which is not a certainty. I agree. It's the player's choice, ultimately. FTR: Grealish is DNP for their last two games. So whether a previous poster thinks he's good enogh to build the team around or not - Southgate doesn't seem to share that opinion.
It's still weird. The premise of the thread is that the US should call up Musah and Balogun to force England's hand, who will then predatory cap them and then US can complain about it. Presumably is some kind of solidarity with Jamaica, whose fans think Mason Greenwood was going to play for them.
Its a weird thing. Every one of these players WAS BORN IN ENGLAND I mean Mason Greenwood was born in England, has lived his entire life in England, and plays his football in England. He started at United as a 6 year old. He's played for the England U15, U17, U18, and U21s. He was called up to the England national team, and he accepted the call. It was his choice. When national teams invite young teens to national team games, they overwhelmingly don't know what the future will hold. A player could drift and never earn more caps. Or they could become regular fixtures with the national team. Nobody knows. They want to include them in the program. I'm sure folks can think of permanently cap-tied USMNT players that would have been better off going with another option. Lots of them. Teal Bunbury?
Ghost expects England to stand there like a yard sale. 'C'mon countries get ur duel national players here. Roll up.' England have MORE right to duel national players than any secondary country that just so happens to have a tenuous or otherwise link to these players
American fans have an obsession with dual-national players. An insane percentage of our youth pool is dual national players so we're constantly fretting about them being 'stolen" by other programs. We also have a very large diaspora of eligible players abroad, and we've constantly got our eyes on them. Particularly amongst the children of American servicemen that stayed in Germany. We recruit dual nationals like crazy, but freak out when other nations do the same exact thing. We're hypocrites. And that's fine. We're fans. We're not supposed to be rational.
Maitland-Niles, if memory serves, was called up off the back of a MOTM performance against Liverpool in the Community Shield, with Arsenal being the winners. Phillips is someone people had been asking to be in the squad for most of the year he'd been in the Championship. Mount also got his first call-up whilst playing only in the Championship, and had far more in front of him than Phillips does. Reece James was originally in the U21 squad, but was promoted to the seniors after Chilwell was left out for breaching Covid rules, meaning Tripper had to play LWB, and we needed cover at RWB, as Walker was in the team as a CB. I couldn't care less what any of them would do for Jamaica. They don't want to play for Jamaica, they want to play for England, and we want them to. And by the way, looking at your most recent squad, I don't think you're in a position to complain about players being called up for reasons other than pure merit.
If estimate that 40-50% of English people are eligible for more than one country. This includes the children and grandchildren of people born in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. My entire English and Welsh born extended family would hypothetically be eligible for more than one country. My sister, paternal cousins and myself are eligible for England and Wales. My brother-in- law and nieces for England, Ireland and Northern Ireland. If I have kids they'll be eligible for at least England and the USA. Oh and my eldest niece is marrying a Romanian. Musah is eligible for 4 countries and that's not unusual these days.
Why would Mason Greenwood play for them? He is English born and bred, I'm sure he's got nothing against Jamaica but his 'dream' is going to be to play for his country, not his grandads. Just about everyone in the English team could probably qualify to play elsewhere, England is that kind of country, my dad was a Scot if I was any good I'm guessing I could have played for them but having been born, brought up, schooled and living in England I don't feel much affinity with the Scottish national team.
Are you arguing with me? I'm not disagreeing with you. Greenwood is not a predatory cap, but some of the others likely are. I can understand the Jamaican frustration on some of them, but others, like Greenwood, no.
There were no predatory caps. As they were born in England. England are entitled to pick who they want
Predatory capping doesn't have anything to do with where they were born. It's a predatory cap if England is calling someone in with an intent to simply secure their resources as depth they probably have no real intent to use, and aren't clear to the player about their spot in the depth chart. I don't think England is doing it to keep these players out of team Jamaica, like I suspect Mexico was with Jonathon Gonzalez, but if they are misleading the players so as to lock them in, that's predatory in my book. Mason Greenwood is an obvious talent ... but some of these guys are going to have this be their only England game ever, and I bet Gareth Southgate knows that. If he wasn't clear on the odds, it's pretty skeevy in my book.
The original poster is making a massive leap based on I think @Athlone posting in the England forum. Apart from Phillips and Grealish all had played multiple times throughout the age groups and Southgate values that (maybe to the detriment of the team but thats an argument for elsewhere) and will usually make call ups based on that The DM position is thin and Phillips was pretty much next in line Grealish actually made the switch from Ireland to England. There's been a lot of injuries this year as well and with the tightened fixture list then the squad is expanded. James has grabbed his chance. Greenwood was stupid. Will they all make the squad for the Euros? Maybe not but as had been pointed out. England manager calls up England players isn't much of a story
Its not predatory capping. These were players well known to Southgate. It was only a matter of time before they got a callup. Greenwood would have had more caps if it wasn't for stupidity. Predatory capping is what wales Nigeria etc do.