World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1426 carlito86, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
    @Dearman
    Why is CR 07/08 only SW for 1 half?


    from August to December 31st 2007
    13 PL goals+1 assist
    1170 minutes played (13 games)

    1gpg

    99 dribbles attempted in that first half(opta) up until 15th January 2008


    6.6 dribbles attempted per 90
    48% accuracy
    3.2 dribbles completed per 90

    https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/cristiano-dribler-mer-enn-zlatan/66428814
    @Tropeiro
    He was on fire here

    2nd half of the PL (January to may 2008)
    18 goals+6 wide assists
    1401 minutes played

    1.54 goals+assists per 90
    The data supports him being more productive in the second half

    But he was a real complete package in the first
    A livewire

    2007 calender year Ronaldo is one of his best ever versions

    I believe that end product within the context of that era will stand the test of time

    A 22/23 year old attacker with
    1gpg in Europe's elite league
    31 goals in 2747 minutes(30.5 games)
    3.2~dribbles completed per 90
    33.1 passes avg per match
    0.95 tackles per match
    3.86 crosses attempted per match
    https://www.premierleague.com/players/2522/Cristiano-Ronaldo/stats?co=1&se=16
    Countless yards covered with his ball carrying
    Goals and assists vs top 4
    A FK specialist,fantastic in the air even at that age,genuinely two footed

    @Tropeiro what kind of whoscored rating could you imagine for this
    It would have to be 8.50-8.60 in the same ball park as 2009/10 la liga

    That C.Ronaldo could literally do anything on a football pitch at a world class standard
     
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  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    Best ever Brazilian to do it in the champions league
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Update end of 2019 - 2020 season.

    World All-Time Greatest Footballers

    As I ranked Messi as the best ever a few months ago, he has been a top players (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in the world in 11 seasons but Pele was in that position in only 8 years. Although Messi is not culturally recognized as the best ever in condition that he never win any world cup, I'm one of people who objects that idea as players in smaller nations that is not possible to win world cup should have a chance to be the greatest ever by his own circumstances.

    Positional Hall of Fame (Main Hall)

    Striker : Lewandowski has been moved up to 24th best striker ever
    Forward : Neymar has a little progress to 22nd although he has reached to top 20 international club plaers of all-time, L.A Suarez has collected to 17th
    Goalkeeper : Manuel Neuer is now at 7th best keeper ever or arguably has surpassed Zamora but I prefer have Nauer behind him.
    Manager : Diego Simeone is now deserved in top 50 but I have no time to update now. a new version of blogger make me trouble in a very slow running.

    The potential players to top 50 will have very great chance being included after the first half of next season

    AM : Kevin De Bruyne
    CM : Paul Pogba
     
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  4. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1429 carlito86, Aug 29, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
    @Dearman
    2nd half la liga 2013/14
    Cristiano Ronaldo

    January-May 2014

    La liga Matchday 18
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Celta-Vigo
    MOTM
    Rating:9.47


    La liga Matchday 19
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738807/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Espanyol-Real-Madrid
    Rating:7.34

    Matchday 20
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Betis-Real-Madrid
    MOTM
    Rating;9.34

    Matchday 21
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738715/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Granada
    MOTM
    Rating 8.80

    Matchday 22
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...-LaLiga-2013-2014-Athletic-Bilbao-Real-Madrid
    Rating:6.47

    Matchday 23 to Matchday 25 red card suspension(3 match ban)

    Matchday 26
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...-LaLiga-2013-2014-Atletico-Madrid-Real-Madrid
    Rating:8.23

    Matchday 27
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738607/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Levante
    MOTM
    Rating:9.48

    Matchday 28
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738687/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Malaga-Real-Madrid
    Rating:8.50

    Matchday 29
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738771/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Barcelona
    Rating:8.06

    Matchday 30
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...n-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Rayo-Vallecano
    Rating:8.62

    Matchday 31
    Muscle injury

    Matchday 32
    Muscle injury

    Matchday 33
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738674/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Osasuna
    MOTM
    Rating:9.80

    Matchday 34
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/738754/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Madrid-Valencia
    MOTM
    Rating:9.23

    Matchday 35
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/7...-LaLiga-2013-2014-Real-Valladolid-Real-Madrid
    Rating:6.45

    Matchday 36
    Muscle injury

    Matchday 37
    Muscle injury

    Average rating:
    8.45

    2014 was his best ever and most consistent year at league level
    And tbh (2008 aside)the ONLY year where he was legitimately and inarguably the undisputed best league performer on the planet

    His league stats from January till December 2014 are ridiculous

    He played 2384 minutes(26.4 league matches) in the 2014 calendar year and scored
    38 goals+13 assists

    2979.jpg
    https://www.whoscored.com/Graphics/2979/Show/WhoScoreds-Top-100
    Top 100 league performers in the 2014 calender year
    An ordinary world class rating for this is CRAZY

    2012/13
    First half:OW 0.5
    2nd half:SW 0.5

    2013/14 should be split into
    First half:OW 0.5
    2nd half:SW 0.5

    2014/15
    First half: phenomenon 0.5
    2nd half:OW 0.5

    I need to gather my thoughts(and sources)to address other discrepancies

    On how he is only rated as OW for the 2007/08 CL
    When he was MVP(best player,best forward,top scorer,fans man of the match in the champions league final)

    inStat ranks him by far the best performer in that 2008 final vs Chelsea

    One (great) goal
    12 completed dribbles
    Fouled 9 times
    3 key passes
    4 attempted tackles
    8 attempted crosses

    EgNpBwpWsAAJX3N.jpeg
    There aren't too many better champions league final performances than this

    Will come back to this later but again just browsing through it seems so many childhood heros of yours get boosted up on dubious grounds

    How is Eusebio only rated 0.1 greater than R9 at league level?????

    Eusebio with 10 league titles and 7× league top goalscorer is only 0.1 points greater than R9 with 1 league title and 3× domestic top goalscorer?

    Somewhere along the line you have inflated R9 beyond recognition (rating him SW in 2001/02 and 2003/04 for starters)



    Neymar only being OW for The 2019/20 CL?
    you've penalised him too heavily for that champions league final performance

    Romario did absolutely nothing against Italy in the 1994 WC final and in fact almost missed his penalty in the shootout
    You still rate him SW for what he did in the previous rounds and rightfully so

    Why The double standards with Neymar?

    Neymar was a SW performer in the 19/20 CL and before the revisionism kicks in was also widely considered to be on par with Robert lewandowski in last season's competition up until the final(there are a dozen sources for this)

    I will come back to this later but again you are reluctantly upgrading post 2006 world cup era players and when you do it is at a snail's pace

    Lastly
    Robert Lewandowski

    the third highest goalscorer in champions league history( behind 2 top 10 all timers)

    The highest scoring foreigner in bundesliga history(on track to finish 2nd all time behind Gerd Muller)

    Had to wait till he was 32 years old to rank 22nd on your top 50 list of greatest strikers:cautious:

    Its progress but at snail's pace
     
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  5. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    https://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/All-Time-World-XI.html

    For 2019 - 2020 top 3 players of the world has been updated, Lewandowski is unanimously first place. The 2nd 3rd is debatable between leading PSG players like Neymar and Mbappe, Nauer, Messi and De Bruyne.

    Neymar is out of focus as he played only 15 domestic games and his performance in UCL final is not enough to compensate.
    Mbappe also played only 18 games in Ligue I and overall rating in UCL knockout is not even one of the best of his team.

    Kevin De Bruyne is evaluated and qualified at 2nd. Fortunately, Messi appears in the list at 3rd place again despite failing in international football but his domestic performance is superb as usual. There is really no candidates deserved above him in score.
     
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  6. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    For this season, it seems to me indisputable that the best player or, at least, the most decisive has been Lewandowski. As 2nd best, I had also thought of De Bruyne. Regarding Messi, although as long as the opposite is not proven, he is still the best player in the world, he has lost the ability to overcome the matches by himself; Although in some games (mainly before the pandemic) he resolved matches with individual plays as he was accustomed to, after the pandemic he did not seem to find his spark, rather the feeling was one of growing reluctance. For all this and for the collective failure of Barcelona, I would not include it in the top 3 and would suggest two names for that third step: Kimmich and Di María.
     
  7. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Kimmich is the second best player in UCL but he is rated by kicker in only international-class in Bundesliga. As domestic part is given higher weight, he isn't qualified.
    Di Maria played well only 2 games in knockout stage. He was given only 3 point from 10 in the first leg against Dortmund. Although I'm acknowledged he was superb in semi-final against Leipzig.
     
  8. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Kicker rated Kimmich "world class" this summer in the category "Defensive midfield".
     
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  9. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Thanks for correction. I misunderstood about seasonal Name. Let reevaluate Kimmich.
     
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  10. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Kimmich was ranked no. 1 in the DM section, followed by Goretzka no. 2 and Thiago no. 3 (all three of them rated was "world class").

    Also "world class" Neuer and Thomas Müller (offensive midfield). Forwards have not yet been published.

    If you scroll down this link you'll see the results so far:

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangliste_des_deutschen_Fußballs
     
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  11. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1436 carlito86, Sep 3, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
    project:
    double standards(continued)
    Screenshot_20200903-055757-1.jpg Screenshot_20200903-055805-1.jpg





    Lionel Messi 13/14
    28 la liga goals +11 assists in 2504 minutes
    1.40 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/lionel-messi/leistungsdaten/spieler/28003/saison/2013/wettbewerb/WM


    Cristiano Ronaldo la liga 13/14
    31 la liga goals+11 assists in 2540 minutes
    1.48 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/crist...aten/spieler/8198/saison/2013/wettbewerb/POWM

    Robert Lewandowski 19/20
    34 bundesliga goals+4 assists in 2761 minutes
    1.24 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rob...19&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=



    Non penalty goals

    Lionel Messi 13/14
    22 non penalty la liga goals +11 assists in 2504 minutes
    1.18 goals+ assists per 90

    Cristiano Ronaldo 13/14
    25 non penalty la liga goals+11 assists in 2540 minutes
    1.27 goals +assists per 90


    Robert lewandowski 19/20
    29 bundesliga goals+4 assists in 2761 minutes
    1.07 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel Messi 13/14 had more goals involvements in la liga than lewandowski

    Cristiano Ronaldo in la liga 13/14 had more goals+assists per 90 without penalties than Robert Lewandowski had with penalties


    Messi/Ronaldo 13/14 played in a higher calibre league than Robert Lewandowski 19/20

    Messi 13/14 scored better quality goals in la liga than lewandowski did in bundesliga 19/20



    Ronaldo 13/14 scored better quality goals in la liga than Robert Lewandowski 19/20 did in bundesliga





    Messi 13/14 acquired a higher whoscored la liga rating(8.34) than Robert Lewandowski 19/20 did in bundesliga(8.14)
    Ronaldo 13/14 acquired a higher whoscored rating in la liga(8.27) than Robert Lewandowski did in bundesliga(8.14)

    Not only did Messi in la liga 13/14 outscore lewandowski 19/20 in terms of goals+assists per 90 but he also had greater all round performances than lewandowski 19/20






    So to recap

    That's more goals involvements (with or without penalties)

    In a higher calibre league playing against higher quality opponents/defences

    Better quality goals

    Greater all round performances(certainly with Lionel Messi and very arguably with Cristiano Ronaldo)

    And ultimately a higher whoscored rating

    Only dearman could come to the conclusion that Robert lewandowski was SW in bundesliga and messi/Cristiano was only ordinary world class in la liga

    You did this with Neymar (who apparently never reached a SW level In la liga)
    You did this with arjen Robben (who apparently was never a SW player In bundesliga)
    Arjen Robben 2009/10 wasn't worse as any season of George best except 1967/68
    Neither statistically or technically


    Please understand this mate
    football did not die in 2006
    maybe you are watching a different game and think today's generation are talentless peasants
    And yesteryears legends are extraterrestrials
    It is not the case at all



    You did this with zlatan ibrahimovic
    Claiming he never reached a SW level in domestic football

    When In reality he reached a comparable level in domestic football to prime Marco van basten
    I'm referring here specifically to seasons 2008/09 and 2011/12 in Serie A
    Arrigo Saachi says this
    https://www.football-italia.net/node/1339

    Fabio Capello says this
    https://www.goal.com/en/news/10/ita...-will-become-stronger-than-van-basten-england

    So it's not just carlito86

    Capocannoniere 2008/09


    Capocannoniere 1991/92

    You compare

    Not only did ibrahimovic score higher quality goals in his best league season(08/09 vs 91/92)
    but was also patently a more prolific dribbler(pre 2009) than any Milan version of van basten
    Also a better passer/creator(certainly)


    Lucarelli( livorno legend)
    "We've all grown up with this myth of Van Basten and Ibrahimovic reminds me very much of him.

    I'm talking about his 'absolute value'
    (echoing what saachi says in the link above)

    Perhaps Van Basten was more clinical in front of goal, but for genius Ibra has no equal. He is more spectacular than Van Basten - the classic big beast with dazzling feet.

    "He is a phenomenon. The things he does has me scratching my head, wondering if he hasn't somehow been genetically modified."




    Ibrahimovic was technically something else
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TLrmfsxk-nw&t=42s



    You did this with xavi (who apparently was never SW in la liga even when he made a all time record 23 assists in a single league campaign from a CM position in 2008/09)


    But then predictably Zinedine Zidane in la liga 2005/06 on the wane and with very inconsistent/bad all round performances gets inflated and achieves a world class rating in la liga
    And supreme world class rating in la liga 2002/03 when he lost the MVP(Don balon) to
    Nihat Kahveci
    A relatively obscure player from Turkey


    Gosh!!!
     
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  12. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    OK, I have changed 3rd place from Messi to Kimmich. Although Messi and Neuer has a better profile domestically (For Neuer, World-Class in both half season while Kimmich was rated only international-class at first half and world-class for second half but average seasonal score is led by Neuer only 0.1 point), Kimmich is much better than both Messi and Neuer.
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Typical and predictable stuff how vDijk is suddenly not rated any more.

    The handicaps on full display.
     
  14. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    The Raynald DENOUEIX Effect!!
     
  15. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Toni Kroos and Thomas Muller

    Both are very controversial to have been deserved for top 50 players of all-time in AM and FW respectively as for their international achievement (Kroos with 5 UCL finals and 4 winners + 1 World Cup, T.Muller with 2 triple champion and 2 world-cup all stars team). As calculated score in full methodology. T.Muller's consistency in domestic football with many national level in the 2nd half 2010s including his poor performance in UEFA Euro 2012 and World Cup 2018) pull his score below top 50.

    Toni Kroos'score is currently behind Bonev at 0.2 point. Definitely Bonev is much more less successful but the methodology is designed based on performance against chance of international appearances.
     
  16. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    #1441 victorcalello38, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1442 carlito86, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    Screenshot_20200916-110855-1.jpg

    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2013/04/Total-Skill.html?m=1
    This is outdated by at least 7 years

    Quantity
    CERZqaMWgAA_iMc.png

    Jump
    img-photo-le-saute-mouton-de-ronaldo-1317963539_x610_articles-141051.jpg



    Scored headers in a
    Fa cup final(2004)
    Copa del rey final(2011)
    European championship semi final (04 and 16)
    Champions league final(2008)
    Leaping headers against Roma 2008
    Diving headers against ajax 2019(one of his best ever goals IMO)

    His aerial game is unparalleled (even moreso at the top level)


    Hes been an elite aerial threat against all comers,all stages for literally the entire duration of his career


    But not good enough for top 10?
     
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  18. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The score is very equal between both. Anyway, Suarez is much better in international country part.
    Annual ranking is not represent all-time performance. It just likes a tip of iceberg.
     
  19. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1444 carlito86, Oct 3, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
    @Dearman
    2015/16 Ronaldo in la liga is also underrated by you because you lacked doing the proper investigation/analysis

    In the first half he was indeed overrated
    From August to December 2015 he scored 14 league goals(4 penalties)+5 assists in 1530 minutes(17 matches)

    It looks nice on paper but we learn 5 goals came in one match vs Espanyol

    2 goals in a 10-2 win vs rayo vallencano(relegated)

    Poor against Barcelona (the 4-0 drubbing)
    Overall 2015 was not a very strong calendar year for Cristiano despite the stats his all round had declined significantly

    Now

    The second half of 2015/16 is completely different
    He was a legitimate monster

    From January to May 2016 he scored 21 league goals(2 penalties)+6 assists in 1654 minutes(18 matches)
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cristiano-ronaldo/leistungsdaten/spieler/8198/saison/2015/plus/1
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/crist.../8198/plus/0?saison_id=2015&wettbewerb_id=ES1
    And its not just the numbers either but the all round was also mightly impressive

    with all due respect to Luis Suarez 15/16 and his raw production CR 15/16 was on a completely different level when he hit the ground

    Match ratings
    2nd half la liga 2015/16
    January-May 2016


    3rd January 2016
    Valencia 2-2 real Madrid
    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985603/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Valencia-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:7.04

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...iga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Deportivo-La-Coruna
    Player rating:8.45

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...n-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Sporting-Gijon
    Player rating:8.68

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Betis-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:6.39

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985680/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Espanyol
    Player rating:10

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985673/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Granada-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:6.76

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Athletic-Bilbao
    Player rating:9.98

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985699/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Malaga-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:7.56

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid
    Player rating:6.92

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985770/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Levante-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:8.56

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Celta-Vigo
    Player rating:10

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Las-Palmas-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:7.09

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985718/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Sevilla
    Player rating:7.86

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985768/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Barcelona-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:8.00

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985744/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Eibar
    Player rating:8.94

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985721/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Getafe-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:9.44

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985721/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Getafe-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:7.44

    https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches...s/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Valencia
    Player rating:8.78

    https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...iga-2015-2016-Deportivo-La-Coruna-Real-Madrid
    Player rating:9.02

    Average whoscored rating:8.25



    Now if we use Robert lewandowski 19/20 as a reference for being SW(rating 8.13)
    Ronaldo defintely should be aswell

    Ive gone through his 19/20 bundesliga ratings and there are matches with under 20 attempted passes and 55-65% pass completion rate
    In no way is this befitting of a real SW performer

    Youve rated guys like George weah 1996 SW in Serie A on the back of a "spectacular" action vs Verona

    Scored on the 16th November 1996
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwOLi3J4Y78

    Verona were prompted to Serie A in 1996/97 finishing 17th place in their inaugural campaign with the 2nd worse defensive record in the entire league
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996–97_Serie_A

    Maybe the most overrated legendary moment in history




    Mate
    If football is about stats than Ronaldo 15/16 on game(2nd half) was markedly more impressive as lewandowski 19/20

    If football is not about stats and about moments than there is an even larger disparity

    C.Ronaldo was in the 2nd half of 15/16 scoring over 1 non penalty goal per game and still capable of providing the technical moments of genius that marked players like Roberto baggio ,rivaldo and Ronaldinho in their respective primes


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xpdFSnwswg0
    This makes any top 10 all timers highlight reel and i dont care who that all timer is

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gkg9af4q0k
    0.13
    Complete Wizardry vs 5th place Bilbao
    Even a Messi fanboy commentator (Ray Hudson) concedes

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h-JBr81SryQ
    This is outrageous(against a 6th place team)

    the production was there and so was the quality

    Only someone who is solidly entrenched in his propaganda or someone who is utterly delusional could think an ordinary world-class performer could do these things in 18 matches(half season)
    https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/
    You can compare here if you want

    Even C.ronaldo 19/20 is very arguably a more complete player then lewandowski at league level

    Ronaldo 19/20 scored roughly the same amount of league goals as lewandowski(31 vs 34)

    With considerably more playmaking

    Twice as many long balls completed(32 vs 15)

    Almost Twice as many passes completed (1051 vs 561)

    Twice as many successful lay off passes(59 vs 28)

    More chances created(51 vs 36)

    Higher pass accuracy(85.3% vs 73.14%)

    More forward passes

    Avg more touches on the ball(57 per 90 vs 43 per 90)

    Now
    On a sidenote maradona 1982/83 really is overrated to be classed as a phenomenon by you
    Watch his matches
    Alot of then contain 1 or 2 spectacular actions(a marvellous ball control or a dribble past 1-2 players)
    The rest is filled with bad decision making,failed dribbling attempts and really bad shooting accuracy
    https://m.youtube.com/c/warlock7885/videos?disable_polymer=true&itct=CBIQ8JMBGAEiEwjj49XJhpjsAhV0lVEKHWf7BCQ=

    Ordinary world class is enough for him
    Maybe even SW is pushing it

    A 35 year old Cruyff finished 8th place in the 1982 World soccer player of the year vote
    Diego Maradona in his "phenomenon heyday"(1982) was nowhere to be found
    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/wsoc82.html

    Yet you didn't even rate Cruyff 1982 as supreme international class
    But rated Maradona 1982 as a phenomenon

    Alot of your ratings have no previous precedence meaning you are the first to make such claims


    Or i notice you rely on obscure sources
    Or if theyre not obscure(Dbs calcio or kicker)you use them inconsistently

    You have a set framework for rating players but it is not applied consistently across the board for all players and at all times
     
    RamyBt repped this.
  20. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    something interesting is that Messi in 19/20 has a higher score than in 13/14 (league only)

    2013/14
    Lionel Messi 8.34
    Cristiano Ronaldo 8.27

    2019/20
    Lionel Messi 8.71
    Lewandowski 8.13
     
  21. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Project double standards will continue for open minded folks
    All the points presented are legitimate,factual and still not tackled

    Robert Lewandowski 19/20 not only makes dearmans podium but is ranked the best league performer in the world for scoring 34 goals in 'bundesfodder'

    Didier Drogba 2009/10 apparently isnt even good enough to be considered the best striker in Europe
    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2013/12/Annual-Best-Player.html?m=1

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...mier-league-review-200910-year-didier-drogba/
    Arguably the highest peak by a African player(irrespective of position)

    Dearman instead opting for David villa(18 open play league goals+2 assists)


    David villa 09/10 wasn't even the best striker in la liga let alone the freaking world

    We can be here all day and it's not just Ronaldo/Messi
     
    RamyBt repped this.
  22. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1447 carlito86, Oct 30, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
    This is how a SW level CF looks


    Someone who can score well assisted goals but also conjure up goals out of thin air

    Otherwise what is the distinction?

    You'd have to be scoring well assisted goals at an absolutely abnormal rate for me to entertain a raise in value


    Lewandowski only ever scored well assisted goals last season bundesliga (alot of them mind you)but he didn't compensate this with any sort of real creativity relative to his position,assists,dribbling etc
    He was just a super efficient scorer/finisher spearheading a modern day superteam

    Lewandowski of last season and continuing into this is a super efficient/ultra consistent OW performer
    At the very top end of that spectrum but not exceeding this

    Forget about him being the best striker of the modern era or whatever else nonesense



    For reference Grafite 2008/09 the Brazilian for Wolfsburg was even more clinical playing in a more balanced era of bundesliga and had that streak of genius that SW performers should have

    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gra...&liga=&wettbewerb=L1&pos=&trainer_id=#subnavi
     
  23. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    2012%2f3%2fIbra-Progess.jpg

    EM4WBsOW4AAKKKN.jpg

    https://www.transfermarkt.us/zlatan-ibrahimovic/leistungsdaten/spieler/3455/plus/1?saison=2011
    "Ibrahimovic’s passing game has been a major feature of Allegri’s side this year, often seeing him occupy the trequartista role when Milan are in possession as Kevin Prince Boateng and Robinho or Alex Pato run off the Swede. The 4-0 demolition of Arsenal in the Champions League showed those qualities at their best and it is no surprise to see him lead the club in terms of through balls (1.1 per game) and key passes (2.9 per game)...

    One majorly under-appreciated part of his game is his defensive work, not the first attribute that comes to mind when thinking of a striker like Ibra, but yet another area in which he truly excels. Only Thiago Silva – perhaps currently Europe’s best defender – has won more aerial duels (41 compared to Ibra’s 34) as both average 1.7 per game. He has also made 30 defensive clearances and 24 tackles, giving him surprising averages of 1.5 and 1.2 per game respectively"

    19.png
     
  24. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1449 carlito86, Nov 28, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020

    @Edhardy

    "Maradona in napoli is the story of his life

    Rebel
    Cheat
    Hero
    God

    1783_1572436268.jpg_g.jpg

    Perhaps the greatest player in football history but the price was too high because nothing that happened after ended well.
    Maradona the footballer was finished and all that was left was the myth"


    I won't spoil it for you if you haven't seen it yet but it is a mighty watch
     
  25. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Titanlux and Buyo repped this.

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