The Netherlands 2020

Well, I was thinking of using semi-pro like Klingo3034, but the wording I read somewhere was amateur. Hope it wasn't that ESPN article again. I was just trying to say that the top two divisions are the only fully pro divisions, but I guess I don't know if that's even correct anymore.

 

The quoted part is about amateur clubs.
The two top divisions are pro leagues, the one (or 2?) below those is a mix of pro clubs and amateur clubs.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...otballs-age-barrier-of-18-to-play-against-men

Although there is no ban on mixed games in Denmark – very much an outlier – a significantly higher proportion of junior girls play for male youth teams in the Netherlands than elsewhere across the continent.

Vera Pauw, the Republic of Ireland’s Dutch coach, believes this trend helps explain the Oranje’s recent international success, winning the 2017 Women’s European Championship and being runners-up to the USA at last year’s World Cup.

Pauw – previously in charge of the Netherlands, South Africa and Houston Dash – regards a 1986 rule change allowing Dutch girls under 12 to join boys’ teams for the first time as a watershed. “The outcome was so extremely positive it opened the door to competitive mixed-gender football throughout the whole pathway of youth football,” she says. “The final step to the under-19s leagues was made at the end of the 1990s.

“It brought a whole base of knowledge into the [Netherlands women’s] squad they’re still profiting from. Every current national-team player comes out of these leagues; every single one has played with and against boys. This is what sets us apart from other countries.”

Several England internationals, including Lucy Bronze, Rachel Daly and Leah Williamson, played in boys’ teams until around the age of 12. Although opinion is divided on the merits of mixed football and, particularly, the risk of injury at adult level, Williamson feels girls can only improve by learning to compensate for their physiological disadvantages on the pitch.

“Young girls develop an understanding of football from playing with boys,” says the Arsenal defender. “We can’t rely on physical attributes, we can’t rely on pace and power, so we have to be clever. That skill transfers to the women’s game when we’re older.”

The big debating point is the gender separation threshold, with the former England and Chelsea midfielder Katie Chapman among those against the rise from 16. “The difference in our mechanics does become an issue,” she says. “Men are quicker and stronger. I think 18 is quite high.”

 

The story of Wiegman's interest in the England NT job seems to be credible. It is surprising to me (as a fan of the Dutch). She reportedly would want to take over England after the Olympics--Neville is supposed to coach England through the Olympics, anyway---but then Euro21 comes fairly quickly after that and would she not want to defend the European title with the current Dutch squad? I imagine that the FA has dangled a very nice pay package to lure her--surely more than she is making now---and I can't imagine that the KNVB wouldn't counter with a pay boost to keep her. Interesting stuff. I hope this is mostly an effort to wangle a better pay package from the home soccer association, but you never know.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...erges-as-favourite-to-be-next-england-manager

 

The money the English FA wants to pay seems to be absurd high. So no, the KNVB isnot going, or more accurate, can't outgun the English.

 

England got a deeper squad & more potential younger players coming up than Holland. Plus their building the strongest league in the world(if not there all ready).
If she does leave, I wonder if the Dutch will hire Tessa Pauw?(Wiegman’s close friend & former coach of Houston Dash/who rebelled against her disciplinarian style)

 

Wow: I'm shocked that Wiegman has taken the England job. I just think she's got the perfect NT coaching job now--and an excellent team that is still in its prime. England certainly has a lot of potential---but the Dutch have got a lot of good young players coming up as well--they've done very well at the U20/19/17 level recently. The FA WSL is stronger than the Eredevisie but the Dutch league certainly seems to be on the upswing. I'm sure money was a factor--and maybe a big one. I simply can't imagine leaving a squad with players like Miedema, Martens, Van de Donk, Bloodworth and half a dozen others still in their prime. And consider this: Wiegman is going to be under a lot more scrutiny in England--she will get criticized far more vociferously if the team performs badly--and with England hosting the next European Championship, the expectations will be sky high for her team, and I'm not sure that is a good thing given how many good/very good teams are in Europe right now. The next Euro championship will be a dogfight. And if I'm a player on the Dutch squad, I'd be a little pissed at this decision--"leaving us for England?".

As for the next Dutch coach, I think hiring Pauw again--wasn't she the NT coach years ago?--would be a disaster. The last thing a talented and veteran team needs is a hard-nosed disciplinarian. I don't know much about Wiegman's personality or coaching style--but she's always seemed fairly easy-going (and yet demanding)--and that's worked for the Dutch. Find a good coach who has the respect of the players, can get on with the players and yet can motivate them to achieve more--that's the balance needed. They'll need to make a good choice obviously as expectations are high in The Netherlands now as well.

 

Maybe she thought it was the end of the cycle and she wanted a new challenge. 4 years heading a NT is a full cycle.

 

It's true--the cycles are fairly long, but one could argue that in Europe you don't really have a four-year cycle given the European championship that comes in the middle of the World Cup cycle. Given what she and the Dutch have accomplished, and the fact that the WC has recently ended, this /is/ a logical time to grab a nice contract and take another job with a big soccer country. She is taking a risk, however, as England's men and women have a history of underachievement, and with England hosting the next women's European championship, wow, she and the team will be under enormous pressure to win it. If she does, she's be a true star. If she doesn't, the knives will come out as they always do for coaches in England. I admire her for taking the risk--and she certainly is capable of taking England to another level. But it will be hard to win the next Euro--hard for every team. I do hope we see another Netherlands vs. England matchup in that tourney. It would be epic!

 

Yes, and as I observed elsewhere, it's quite difficult to do better than being Euro Champions and making the final of the WWC. She had set quite a high bar for herself: now it's equally set for the new coach. I don't envy him/her: almost any possible achievement will be seen as a downgrade.

 

If you combined The Netherlands and the England NT squads, who would be the starters? You might have some tough decisions: I'd have more Dutch players than English, for sure. Maybe Parris starts at RW over Van de Sanden--though they are pretty comparable in my mind (they both play for Lyon, though Parris is getting more playing time than Van de Sanden) but certainly Martens and Miedema are locks. Who in England's midfield would start over The Netherlands trio? I'm not sure anyone. Maybe Nobbs, who is a talented attacking player. Walsh and Scott are good--but Van de Donk, Groenen and Spitse all have considerable individual talents and they play well together. Who in the women's game is a better free-kick specialist than Spitse, who also sets tempo nicely? In the back England's outside backs get the nod--Bronze, for sure, and with Van Lunteren now retired from NT play, I'd choose Stokes or Daly for the other side (not all that impressed with Greenwood). At centerback, I like Van der Gragt and Bloodworth more than Bright and Houghton, who've both been good for a long time but are past their prime. Williamson would get some playing time. England's got more depth than The Netherlands, but Wiegman is leaving some top talent behind.

 

She's still coaching the Dutch through the Olympics, so that would cover all three major international tournaments for European teams. I'm definitely surprised as well, but I guess leaving after taking a crack at all the big tournaments is as good a time as any.

 

Parris would start for me, and I guess I don't really have much of an opinion between Stokes and Daly. (Of course, some or maybe many people think Daly should be solely played on the front line.) I personally would field Bloodworth and Williamson as my CBs. However, that might be a situation of two players too alike to be a good pairing. Roebuck would be in goal.

Spitse's free kick ability is indeed the one thing that sets her apart in my opinion. I think Walsh sets tempo as well as her, and her passing is arguably often more penetrative and dangerous.

Van de Donk's game time for me depends a bit on if we're getting Arsenal/Dutch friendly or qualifier van de Donk or major tournament van de Donk. I was pretty impressed by van de Donk at both the Euros and the World Cup, but honestly, I think Groenen and Spitse outperformed her at both tournaments. Her main chance creation aspect at the Euros and the World Cup seemed to be through winning free kicks. That's of course great, but the other Dutch players were also winning various free kicks in equally dangerous positions. Spitse just seemed to favor setting up or scoring goals on the free kicks van de Donk won. So, maybe van de Donk does have some sort of inexplicable ability to set up goals, but in a major international tournament, I maybe would favor starting Nobbs ahead of her.

Some people disagree, but Groenen was as much of a driving force behind the Euro 2017 win as Martens was in my opinion. She also had many important chance creation and defensive break up plays throughout the World Cup. So, she would be a starter most of the time for me in this theoretical situation. However, Scott is obviously way better in the air than Groenen is, and she's more of a goal scoring threat.

With those six players (and Roord), I don't know if you'd have a set starting midfield at all. I think it'd be a game to game decision based on opposition and player form.

 

If I’m Netherlands fan, I cannot be happy having a lame duck head coach for over a year.

 

The reason I think either Pauw or the current assistants might have the inside track is that currently the top 10 Euro NT’s/coaches all are domestic (so Wiegman’s switch is the exception rather than the rule) & can’t criticize this since Euro teams made up 7 of the 8 teams That made it to the quarterfinals of the last WC.

Reasons for Sarina’s success;(1) faster paced/more direct soccer techniques as well as being an strong conditioning coach(When time allowed ala major summer tourneys).
(2)Holland a bridge between more athletically build Scandinavians & yet their major players went through the most technical, German school of soccer(Miedema, Martens, Groenen, Bloodsworth,van Luterin, Roord, Bereensteyn all at one time played in their teens in the Bundesliga)
(3)and then having what arguably are the two best players in Europe; Miedema & Martens(when she’s not playing on one toe, lol)

Reasons why Sarina wanted to switch; (1)England doesn’t have to qualify for anything over the next two years & thus challenge itself with better opponents. Compare that where Holland has to waste its valuable time(FIFA window openings) in a a rather weak Euro qualifier group where all the opponents just BUNKER
(2) England/WSL league is currently where the action is interest is on an all time high along with its way bigger spending money on several teams.(the US decided to slump on this with its weak NWSL season)
(3) right now way more potential in England in producing a new ‘golden generation’ as compare to Holland which currently suffers from a lack of depth((Beth E, Hemph, Russo, James & Chloe Kelly weren’t even part of the ENG/NT at last year’s WC)

 

The article is not incorrect, I checked the level as well and it was the bottom level of the North division. In the pyramid tier it equated to something like the 9th level indeed (7th division amateur level).
School was deemed more important for her when she turned down Heerenveen (exam year and now nursing school). According to another article she has made some national youth teams (something I hadn't read so far. Name sounded familiar but haven't verified yet).

Semi Pro is also overstating it, then the NCAA level is semipro as well with under the table payments [emoji1]. Certainly at this level any payments will be insignificant, if at all, and they'll all be paying their anual membership fees like any amateur

Frankly I was surprised there even was a gender restriction at senior level. Perfect grounds for an equal pay lawsuit [emoji849].

 

This is the Dutch league structure: https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koninklijke_Nederlandse_Voetbalbond#Georganiseerde_competities
They play in the 4e Klasse North Division, Saturday League, group 4A [as you can see this is not the 4th tier overall, just the 4th tier of the North Division (the lowest populated area of the country to boot so not as competitive as the West either) . 5th tier below that as well so not entirely the bottom of the North] .
In any case hardly comparable to the Birgit Prinz era [emoji1]...

 

Haven't seen it mentioned but they will be broadcasting full games on tv this season. The 1215h. game of the week ones I believe, mostly on dutch fox sports but at times on the open channel NPO 1 sunday sports broadcast. PSV now in quarantaine shortly before the season start [emoji85].

 

It looks like that Twente-Ajax came from February was played on artificial turf. Is that the Twente field? I didn't think anybody in the Eredivisie played on turf.

When does the NT play again? Must check.

 

Loads of clubs have artificial turf (cheaper in the long run) , in particular for their youth/junior teams. The women don't usually play in the main stadium (at least not the teams with big capacity mains) which for Twente does have natural grass).
ADO Den Haag had artificial turf in their main and only switching back to natural this year (iirc something like eight clubs still played on artificial last season in the men's premier division).
The girl that committed to a Div II college is still going ahead with it despite (covid,) securing a starting eleven spot in central defence for Zwolle last season at age 17. Missing out on televised games and the return of players like a de Gragt to the opposition.

Women's Premier Division preview/first look: Vrouwen trappen eredivisie af: lukt het PSV eindelijk landstitel te veroveren? - https://nos.nl/l/2346979
Still have to find out how to capture/record it [emoji56].

 

Already lost track of time, 1-1 right now (37th minute now)
Folkertsma at Twente the name that sounded like Fokkema in the articles about dispensation to play in a men's team. Jill Roord's dad technical director for FC Twente women...

Ajax 2-1 42', goal by Lewerissa, (pre) assist by Pelova
Ajax 3-1 44', goal by vd Gragt from a direct free kick over the wall [emoji16] (by the sound of it she scored Twente's goal as well/own goal).

 

I'd like to see forward Katja Snoeijs play for the NT. I've not seen here play (save for a few video clips)--but she is clearly a prolific goal scorer. 33 goals in 36 appearances for PSV, and has done well for Bordeaux, her new team. She started at forward and scored a goal against PSG a few weeks ago--and then scored two goals in Bordeaux's season opener, starting up front with Bunny Shaw. She's 5'8" and clearly talented. Could she share the field with Miedema--and if so, in what way? She doesn't strike me as a winger given her apparent abilities in front of goal, so would you have to go to a 4-4-2 or somesuch to get her on the field? I can't see that happening as The Dutch never play anything but 4-3-3. It's their gospel formation!