I was being more specific to demographics but I think Canada has been conditioned to view sports markets like the US does over time. Montreal used to be multiple NHL clubs but as the US influence grew in the NHL, they deemed many cities as too small. It isn't that they are too small to succeed but there's just so many million + US cities out there that more Canadian clubs are out of the question I mean the league is dishonest to the point it lies about Quebec City, Regina, Toronto and Southern Ontario clubs while pushing teams in the desert with most of its population who can't even skate. Perception isn't reality, we are told that we're the same for obvious reasons but we aren't really. There's no doubt that NHL could succeed with multiple clubs in big markets and teams in medium markets just like Europe. Those sports are mostly running at the same time as NHL and my previous point holds, multiple clubs could thrive in Canada despite despite all the other leagues if we didn't have to deal with Garry Bettman. In the summer though, there's CFL (different demographics) and MLS (restricted mostly to 3 markets representing less than 1/3 of Canadians). Over 2/3 of Canada is fair game and beyond MLS reach. Russia and Scandinavia are hockey craze like us, others are Rugby or even basketball craze, difference is that they have 100% control of their markets, Canada doesn't in most sports except CFL and to some extend CPL.
Whatever it was called, this would effectively be a move to set up a CPL D2. The financial requirements would be far beyond what the large majority of L1O and PLSQ clubs could handle. We already have Ottawa switching from L1O to the PLSQ to reduce travel and all the PLSQ teams that have been attempted outside of Montreal rapidly folded. So they'd need to cherry pick whatever teams thought they could do this travel (Windsor to Halifax, say) but didn't want to go all the way to CPL D1. I don't really care if the ownership is domestic or foreign, but I'm not a big fan of directly naming the team after a foreign team. Atletico Ottawa has no resonance as a name for the city and I doubt that more than a tiny fraction of Ottawa soccer fans also have any affiliation with Atletico. The Ottawa Parliaments - or whatever - that happen to be owned by Atletico would be much better. (Especially for a league that didn't want MLS reserve teams because they didn't want to look like a farm team league, but that's another discussion.)
Interesting bit of information regarding Amer Didic of FC Edmonton Sources are saying that he refused a Vancouver Whitecaps contract to stay in CPL. He was already called up by Canada and already scored a goal. Him and Zator are the closest to breaking into the CanMNT and his decision was based on playing time.
Didic already had a go-round with MLS when he signed for KC but spent three years on their reserve squad without once featuring on the first team. I can understand how he'd be leery of ending up benching for Vancouver and chose playing for Edmonton instead. Bigger picture, a lot of players are engaging in the same calculus. There are a number of players who were in MLS academies (especially TFC and Vancouver) but choose to sign CPL contracts rather than hanging on and trying to break into the first team. It has to be a difficult decision - all soccer players want to play at as high a level as they can but they mostly want to play. Then throw in the fact that the lowest paid MLS player makes $75 000 CDN while the average for the CPL is about $35 000 (so I assume the kids make less). Finally, the majority of these guys aren't clearly and obviously going to be able to make a career out of soccer. They have maybe three to five years to figure out how to stand out and take their shot before they either make it or drop out to find a real job. How best to optimize that opportunity?
I wouldn't be surprise if some clubs end up merging to join the new league. Yes, this would definitely help set up the foundation for a CPL D2. Long term, this is what CSB might look like Pro/Rel Premier League - National - CPL 2.0 (higher budgets & quality) Division 2 - National - CPL year 1 budgets and quality Division 3 - Regional - CHL style (east, central, west) - as said in the article, higher budget and quality than current D3 levels I think at first, League 1 Ontario would be the benchmark for quality for the merged league (Quebec - Ontario) and for the BC League to aim for. Outside of AS Blainville, L1O is much stronger than PLSQ
With that model, the lowest level of team is higher than the current L1O/PLSQ teams. I don't think there are anything like enough cities for this to work. This calls for a minimum of 24 national level teams (16 the CPL says it wants in D1 and I'm saying a minimum of 8 in D2 for a viable league) plus a minimum of 24 more regional level teams (8 for each conference). That's a minimum of 48 teams that all have to be higher level than anything we currently have outside the CPL. We currently have eight CPL teams. Even if every one of those cities added a second team, we'd still need 32 more cities. That's getting into some pretty small, out of the way places. I think this would be great. L1O has supplied a large percentage of the CPL players and they're doing fine. But those teams aren't strong enough to play regionally, let alone nationally. To be clear, for purposes of this conversation, by stronger I mean off the field. A much more reasonable (but still stretching it) version of three divisions would be: 1. CPL - national 2. D2 - regional 3. D3 - L1O, PLSQ, L1BC (maybe others) playing locally
Regarding Didic and similar players Those are indeed very difficult decisions to make. However, the transfer of Tristan Borges, Emilio Estevez, Joel Waterman and Telfer & Welshman being picked up by Euro clubs thanks to playing in CPL will sway a lot of them currently in USL or other league's bench to try CPL. They have been showed that if they excel, good leagues will take notice and take them. Davies and David helps increasing the reputation of Canadian players which has position Canada as an untapped market. CPL wanting to leave no stone un-turned has lots of leverage on negotiation with Canadians who are unproven at a high enough level allowing them to put out better quality than expected at such a low cost. Didic choice is surprising this early in the history of the league but it is the beginning of a larger trend we will be witnessing going forward. Like you said, I think this force players to take a hard look at themselves and determine if they will make it or not. Either take the MLS minimum wage or travel USL One cities and hope for the best or take the lower wage and prove once and for all what you're made off. If they are great, they will move on to better places or they will be either CPL career guys or be release. With all that talent available outside of the system, it will take a while for CPL to go through them. I believe that once they have established a system allowing them to not miss anyone and have a true picture of the pool, only then they will go 2.0 and continue their journey by matching the better players with better internationals while the rest will go to D2 or D3.
The only way CPL 1 and 2 get to 24 is by having multiple clubs in pretty much every market, in cities like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, that's pretty doable as each city has suburbs that are decent sized and Toronto could be sudivided by the pre-megacity municipalities. The problem is, that's going to impact the size of the clubs themselves as it likely limits the top level clubs 5k-10k attendance and the lower division to less than 5k. So, the question becomes, do you want a lot of smaller clubs, or a few bigger clubs and which model is better for Canadian soccer. That's going to be interesting.
Given the average salary of CPL clubs, I have no idea why a Canadian would choose USL at this point. From what I understand, $35k is on par, if not higher than USL.. Add in the Davies and David effect and CPL should be the place to go for pretty much every Canadian that isn't at least a sub on a MLS club. However, one thing to point out, USL players go to Europe all the time. They just aren't sold. Another advantage CPL has over USL is that USL most teams only do 9 month contracts, so any player that attracts attention from Europe just goes on a free transfer.
Overtime they can. More kids play soccer than even hockey. Unlike the NHL-AHL-CHL-Amateur system we have that insure that we miss no one and everyone is evaluated, we are light-years away from that for soccer. In terms of sheer numbers of players, it's doable however it's plugging the gaps across the country and getting private investors on board that will be the challenge. It will take time but 2026 World Cup and stories like Davies and David will accelerate things. Private investment is needed to make this a reality and we might see mergers happen or some of the team will end up playing at a level lower than D3. For the good of our overall program, it was the right call to make. If only 8 teams can financially make the D3 league with proper infrastructure in the Quebec-Windsor corridor at first, so be it. CSB owning all the tiers and being able to bundle sponsorship deals and providing exposure via MediaPro is a massive asset that never existed before. If you can grow the overall brand and place D3 and eventually D2 underneath it, there's reasons to be optimistic for the future. ***Adding to that, if MediaPro gets their hands on the Canadian rights for MLS (they already acquired Liga MX), they will launch their cable network and be the ONLY stop for North American soccer content in Canada. Throwing D2 and D3 matches there is exactly what's needed to get those smaller clubs and market the exposure and business needed to make it work. CSB has a "pyramidal" approach which could lead to "pyramidal solutions" to help the smaller markets such as revenue sharing programs and eventually luxury taxes on the cap which would go to lower leagues. Buying into D3 or eventually D2 means that you have to buy into CSB which might attract more & better investors than what we had all these years.
CPL has the long term goal of an average of 10k for the Premier League, which would put it in an interesting position in comparison to Scandinavian leagues and other European markets. For the Premier League say post 2026, it's doable. Being consistent with what has been said about how CSB views D2 and where it wants it to be, an average of 5k nationally is viable but they will need the 2026 boost to make it plausible, hence the league not going there until then. There's a good number of medium - lower size market who could get there such as London, Windsor, Regina, Kelowna, Surrey, Longueuil, Laval, Trois-Rivieres, Saguenay, Barrie, Niagara-St.Cath, Oshawa etc... D3 however, I can't say what they are aiming for. I recall BCL1 talking around 1k so we'll see.
Right now we have three MLS clubs, eight CPL clubs, and about 25 D3 clubs. Each level is literally an order of magnitude higher than the one below it in terms of money. We will be successful to the extent that we can grow that, maximize its effectiveness at developing Canadian talent, and link it to the rest of the world of soccer. We can subdivide some of the larger cities, especially as we cross leagues. Toronto has MLS, CPL, and several L1O teams. I'm not convinced we can subdivide much more than that with multiple teams at the higher levels. Not if it takes something like 5 to 7 k in attendance to sustain national level clubs. Hence my thought that a national level D2 is not realistic.
I think you can pretty much "ignore" the clubs below CPL. For the most part, those clubs are not going to be part of CPL's future. There will certainly be a handful that make the move up, but that will be because big investors decide to take over their ownership and moves them up. The question is, how much cache do those clubs have in their communities? I suspect the answer is "not much" for a vast majority of them. I suspect most investors will be air dropping into a community with a new CPL club.
Is that a target for the the league average or the minimum they expect for each team? D3 however, I can't say what they are aiming for. I recall BCL1 talking around 1k so we'll see.[/QUOTE] CSB is the wild card. It is a new factor in Canadian soccer and we don't have any solid numbers to assign to it. It will help support teams to the extent that they can survive on less attendance than they would otherwise need. That said, it isn't a bottomless reservoir of funding. Attendance is still going to be a major driver of revenue and when the league says things like they need 6-7 k in attendance, I'm assuming they've factored in CSB. I've kept track of attendance in Canadian soccer for a long time. There have been very few teams that have been able to sustain even 5 k in attendance (what you're saying the CPL wants for D2). Only three current CPL teams have that and I can't call it sustained after only one year. As for the D3 teams, the only ones that managed to routinely hit 1000 were the old PDL teams in Victoria and London and occasionally the CSL team in Trois-Riviers. There will be a 2026 bump. The American experience with the WC, however, suggests that it won't necessarily be as large as we think or be sustained. It could be, but we can't just shout out "CSB" or "2026" to cover the fact that attendance is far below what is needed by the league's own estimate to support the three tier vision.
You are correct. If, say, London got a CPL team, it would not be the ownership of the current FC London moving up. Most of the teams below the CPL play in front of crowds in the range of 50 to maybe 200. And moving the attendance needle is hard, even at a higher level. Remember people who claimed that fans would flock out if only we had Canadian opponents? Edmonton averaged 3372 their last year in the NASL. Their first year in the CPL they averaged 3318. That sounds to me more like there are 3000 and some people in Edmonton who enjoy this level of live soccer. I'm not sanguine about the prospects of the CPL teams doubling or tripling their attendances to hit 10 000. It could happen, I suppose, but the legacy MLS teams can tell you how difficult it is to go out and improve attendance meaningfully and in a sustained way.
I don't think it's that simple. I think that FC Edmonton needed the major renovations to their stadium. The city denying the club's application was a major blow to them with CFL Eskimos pulling all the stops to block it. As of today, that stadium does not meet CPL minimum standards but the league puts up with it for now. It's very much a "minor league" venue in the "city of champions" next to Eskimos and Oilers...that can't work, fan experience is bad, schedule was not great either. Only options are convincing the city to let them renovate or spend to move downtown and permanently retrofit the baseball field to a soccer stadium as suggested by CPL and the city. It goes beyond than simply the level of play. Fan experience might matter little for the 3000 that are hardcore Eddies but they won't draw new fans out of that venue with a terrible fan experience. Regardless on what we think of Edmonton, their other venues are amongst the best in CFL and easily top 5 in NHL, tough ask to sell them on Clarke.
Interestingly enough, seems that Fox Sports quietly purchased the rights to some of the CPL games https://www.ontvtonight.com/guide/listings/channel/690446261/fox-sports-2.html?dt=2020-08-18
This is such a ridiculous post. NHL is ran by billionaires who all made their wealth and are quite good at making money. You don't think if Saskatoon, QC etc was profitable they would not already have teams there? You think NHL runs their operations out of spite for Canada? Come on. Those places can't support a team, they don't have enough corporate sponsors. People don't need to know how to skate to enjoy hockey. People don't know martial arts still watch UFC.
So Southern Ontario and Toronto (2nd team) cant work? Be real, it's more about priority and TV markets than spite. Everyone understands the business logic of Bettman but it sucks for us. Quebec (as big if not bigger than Winnipeg) and Regina (they pack Mosaic Stadium 33k seats) could absolutely support the NHL, but they don't want to go to those cities. The Boston Bruins owner is very much against a northern expansion.
Saskatoon? Seriously? There's this (false) narrative among some Canadian hockey fans that the NHL has been a flop in warmer American cities, so the league should move teams to Quebec City or wherever in Canada. But, if you look at the actual attendance numbers, that's not the case. Vegas, Tampa Bay and Nashville are all in the top 10 for percentage of tickets sold for their home games, and Calgary, Vancouver and Ottawa are near the bottom of the league. http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2019/sort/homePct
Ottawa has bad attendance for valid reasons. Calgary is the next lowest Canadian team in terms of percentage of tickets sold. It is 16th in the league (exactly in the middle) and has a sales rate of 97% which is hardly bad. What Canadians would like to see is stuff like the NHL not blocking the move of Arizona (which is actually near the bottom of the league in attendance) to Hamilton. In no universe is Phoenix a better hockey market than Hamilton. But Regina - no. There's a big difference between selling 30 000 tickets nine times a year at $50 each and selling 18 000 tickets 41 times per year at $100 each.