News: 2020 - Other teams named United and a few that aren’t discussion thread.

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by morrissey, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and bad players.

    Even with "good" players he would still suck.

    Can you imagine having Jakovic now. Somehow a good coach, Bradley, seemed to get him to perform at a higher level and as a 35 year old he still can shut down players a decade (or more) younger.
     
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  2. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I remember how he was viewed during his stay here and yet here he is, given playing time by one of our elite coaches, and getting it done at an age when few are still in the game.
     
  3. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    Bradley is a coach, Arena is a coach, Pareja is a coach, even Curtin is a coach. Olsen is a guy standing on the sidelines gesticulating in the coach's box. There is a difference. Look at what Pareja has done with Orlando in that tournament. Nani looks like he's 23 and the whole team appears to have an understanding of how each other will play. Their comeback against LAFC is something an Olsen coached team just couldn't execute.
     
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  4. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    Except against Toronto
     
  5. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That had nothing to do with Olsen. At all. Toronto fell asleep and we got lucky that Pipa was on the field and then had to tie it in extra time.

    I can't give any credit because the team didn't end up rallying on that. We came out the next game full of suck and then unimaginably in position to win the group came out full of suck for a third game in a row.
     
  6. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    He used all five subs.
     
  7. JRHokie

    JRHokie Member+

    Aug 23, 2001
    Fairfax, VA
    Yes, i was saying as much when i was criticizing ownership. Because thats the defense of Ben, that ownership doesnt commit to getting better players. Which we all know is true, but it doesn't mean Ben gets a pass for his horrible coaching.
     
  8. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
  9. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    Was reading Doyle's breakdown of the Orlando/Portland match tonight. One of his comments concerned Portland's use of Eryk Williamson and he said he offered something that Portland didn't even have with Nagbe back in the day. Now, keeping in mind this is just one opinion and this is a discussion of play within a pandemic driven bubble, I thought I would look to see what DCU actually got in return for the trade of Williamson to Portland back in 2018.

    According to Goff: DCU got a 2020 Second Round draft pick; 100K in GAM for 2018; 100K in TAM for 2019; and 50% of any sell on transfer of Williamson.

    So, what did DCU use with that haul:
    2nd Round Draft Pick -- Josh Fawole (no longer with team)
    100K GAM -- hard to say, although Goff reported that Kasper would use some of the money to acquire a midfielder and outside back from "Latin America". Based on the time of acquisition, the only player possibly linked to this would be Joseph Mora as both Segura and Moreno were acquired prior to the Williamson trade. Looking at the TAM money in 2019, DCU did get Titi Rodriguez on loan for that season

    So, at best, DCU essentially traded Williamson for money that helped acquire Mora and a one year loan of Rodriguez.
     
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  10. UnitedBorn

    UnitedBorn Member+

    Dec 7, 2015
    301
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    From What I remember, Williamson didn't want to sign with DC United and levered some overseas interest to get his rights traded. TBH, the move probably worked out for both parties considering DC United's track record of developing talent .
     
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  11. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    The indictment in your response is that a Homegrown DCU player did not want to continue a professional career here. That speaks volumes regarding the state of the coaching staff on the professional level. Something similar happened with Durkin's kid brother. He enrolled in the Atlanta academy even though the Durkins are from outside Richmond.
     
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  12. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Certain MLS clubs are investing heavily in the Academy to first team pipeline. Dallas being the model club in this respect. DC is probably dead last if not tied with the Galaxy. We should have already established Yow and Pines as regular rotation players by now. This chicken and egg crap where they never get "ready" because they never get game time is the problem.

    If you were looking at Academy options why would you choose DCU?
     
  13. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does MLS have territory rules for MLS academies?
     
  14. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The home grown players to this point haven't been good enough. The couple that are (Hamid, Najar), played early and often. There is a 17 year old currently getting minutes (Paredes). But mostly they have not shown they are MLS level. Robinson, Martin, Seaton, Shanosky, Bustamante, all got time and are all out the league. Harkes plays in the second division in Scotland, he had plenty of minutes. Durkin is on a team in the lower half of the Belgian league, and was definitely a regular before he got hurt.

    I thought Pines was going to take a starter spot and run with it last season, but it didn't happen. Yow was underwhelming at the USL level. At some point I decided to trust DC's evaluation of the home growns b/c to this point, their evaluations have proven correct.

    Personally, I blame the academy, not the parent club. There is oodles of talent in the area, but somehow it's not translating to the MLS level. I believe they have to recognize this is a fact, why is it happening, and then make the necessary changes. I mean, I guess the parent club should be more interested in fixing those problems, so there is definitely blame there, but it doesn't fall at Olsen's feet, imo.
     
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  15. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DC's academy is still pay-to-play, while Dallas', and quite a few of the others are not. That's the main block to a lot of local talents. Add in the meh coaching, facilities, and not much chance to play with the first team once they hit 17 - 18, and it's easy to see why some of the local kids are going elsewhere.
     
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  16. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the rise of Loudoun United and the campus there, we're in the process of building out the infrastructure for a better pipeline. Pay to play should go, but in terms of other aspects of the academy, I hope we're moving in the right direction. Ultimately, the USSF has to fix their recordkeeping so academies get solidarity payments and the like. The rest of the world doesn't just finance it on a wing and a prayer.

    Yow and Nyeman need to get back to Loudoun, and we need a fourth CB to sit the bench while Pines is starting on one team or the other. I'm afeard we're going to Jaden him and that would be a terrible waste.
     
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  17. Petworth Posse

    Feb 24, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Of course the flip side to this is that many teams who have spent less than us went on to win MLS Cup, including Houston, San Jose, Columbus, and Kansas City. You seem to cherry pick the teams we over performed against while ignoring the teams that we underperformed against, within the same low budget range. Ben's history is one of a worse than average coach, with the most losses in MLS history. Nice guy. Means well. But this league has passed him by in almost every criteria.
     
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  18. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most on these boards seem to agree that Ben should go (but not before Ashton!), but the issue is how he should be seen the door. Is he moved upstairs and, if so, could he keep his hands off strategy/tactics/player development? Or is he totally terminated and basically run out of town. Ben and his wife are deeply imbedded in downtown DC, and it would seem cruel to completely cut ties to the organization - but maybe that's what has to happen. In any case, the new coach should demand some new talent.
     
  19. Grasscutter

    Grasscutter Member

    Jan 21, 2003
    Atlantis
    Club:
    DC United
    Neither Houston, San Jose or Columbus won MLS Cups during Ben's tenure at DC. KC won in 2013, but I bet you bagels to bitcoin they were spending more money, having just opened a new stadium and having signed Oriol Rosell from Spain and Aurielien Collin from France. Our roster that year (2013) was the dregs--Carlos Ruiz was our prized offseason acquisition.

    I'm really not happy with Ben's coaching since the start of last year, but the front office gets way too little blame for our utter lack of ambition.
     
  20. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    well, two years ago we got Rooney and for those three months with Acosta at his best it was pretty wonderful - and the midfield was really clicking and we could dominate many teams -

    if that had continued the next season (IF Rooney hadn't gotten whipped and went back to 2nd division Derby County - which Olsen had nothing to do with) (IF Acosta hadn't gotten a head twice the size of normal and not started to pout like Freddy Adu - which Olsen had nothing to do with), then we wouldn't be talking about any of this
     
  21. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So two players that don't need coaching and developed a report on their own (as it just wasn't happening via coaching - which Olsen is responsible for) and the FO replaced them with Kamara and a rusty Asad. Given that we have a solid core of players and we play like absolute flaming trash.

    Year after year we start off like a team that never stepped on the pitch together before. That's on Olsen.

    Every year we don't have what we need at the start of the season - that's on the FO.

    We get someone worthwhile in the summer and grind out results hoping, just hoping, that our next leap, will be our leap to the playoffs.

    It sucks, we suck, we've sucked for a while. The problem is akin to mulisystem organ failure where just one transplant isn't going to cut it.

    Just because something is hard to fix it doesn't mean it can't be fixed. We have serious problems and we need serious people to fix them...
     
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  22. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    The meta-point is that the status quo isn't working and hasn't worked for a long time. The LuchaRoo moment was a blip, a "false positive" so to speak. Rooney's arrival coincided with the new stadium and a schedule that consisted of half a bazillion home games. None of it was sustainable over a full season as 2019 unfortunately demonstrated. Instead, without the brilliance of Acosta and Rooney, the result was BennyBall and no Plan B. This season looks like BennyBall with new cast members, but the same script. Only HIguain is the the wild card, but if you are relying on magic from a 37 year old coming off ACL surgery to save your bacon -- well maybe you should become a vegetarian.

    At this point, change for change's sake simply makes sense. We all know what the current administration will provide and that is insufficient to get hardware. And, why compete if you don't aspire to win?
     
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  23. Section 107

    Section 107 Member+

    DCU
    United States
    Jul 18, 2018
    because at the heart of this all it is not even a little bit about "sport." It is entirely about return on investment in a specific niche of the entertainment industry. Getting a share of a (heretofore, pre-covid) growing broadcast deal and increasing net worth of the franchise is the main driver.
     
  24. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    Yes, but at some point, the fans and the TV revenue begin to dry up because you suck. Look at DCU's inability to get a local TV deal that pays them more than expired Arby's coupons.
     
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  25. Section 107

    Section 107 Member+

    DCU
    United States
    Jul 18, 2018
    True. But the local deal only matters in the short term. It is the 2021 league deal that materially improves the value of the franchise. It certainly helps to have the #9 market team to be consistently doing well, but it doesnt really matter overall. Its the same in the other leagues - the small market teams have outsize profit sharing compared to the number of eyeballs they bring.
     
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