Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2019/20 Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLSsoccer reports that Weah is back in training. Great news! That said, because of the long layoff and the second injury happening so soon, I would advise him to slowly be introduce back into playing time. I wouldn’t care if he didn’t play a game until October and only sub minutes into the new year. I think it’d be a mistake to rush it back so soon after a long injury.
     
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  2. TxEx

    TxEx Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur, Crystal Palace, FC Dallas
    Aug 19, 2016
    DFW
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    de la Torre has Championship experience. Perhaps he has enough to get himself a Championship deal with another team. Fossey on the other hand has never played a professional minute, unless you count PL2 as a legit level. He's had a serious injury that kept him out for over a year. The number of teams willing to offer him a pro deal and a legit chance to play as many minutes as he can handle is probably limited, especially in a covid-19 world.

    How many championship sides are going to offer Fossey a deal? Fulham have an option are they picking it up? Is he even going to have a chance for higher level opportunities?
     
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Wolfsburg now has four USYNTers in their stable. One can convince me to be more exited by these four than the prospects we have at Schalkamerica (Taitague, Hoppe, Rotundo, etc.). We also have John Anthony Brooks in the Wolfsburg first team.
     
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  4. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think as soon as any of them play then it will get very exciting at Wolfsburg. Until then, there is the worry that the coach simply doesn't play youth players. That they will all be at Wolfsburg 2, in the 4th division, until they move sometime in the future.

    Rotundo is not a big thing around here, most think he is too small and slow. What is interesting is his peers hold him in high regard. Many interviews with other U17 YNT'ers will have them single him out as a great player.

    Strikers take time. It might be the toughest position currently. Hoppe hopefully has settled and is poised for a big year.

    I don't think Brooks will be in Wolfsburg for long.
     
  5. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Seems Uly is similar to the guys at PSV, right? If not a little ahead of them (with higher expectations). All 3 should hopefully get in the first team, as I'm not sure another year of youth/U23s is going to help them. If Uly doesn't start getting minutes this year, it might be time to pump the brakes on his status as a high end prospect? Based on his performances last year, and the fact he spent the last month or two with the first team, he seems to be in a good spot. But again, it's a key year for him, vs. the other guys there at Wolfsburg who still have a ways to go.
     
  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pushing isn't the best response but no response at all is the worst. I remember a US-Brazil friendly where one of our players got thugged and Jones laid out Neymar a minute later. Voila, magic no more thuggery. I liked this response because it wasn't immediate, it happened during the run of play and it targeted a player they couldn't afford to lose. The message was clear - take out on of ours and this is the guy you are going to lose. Playground rules basically.
     
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  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Yeah, this one's tough, as I see both sides.

    I think it's not so much about pushing or creating injuries or intimidation as it is demanding respect. If one team is going to play hard, and you aren't, then that just gives the other team confidence. Maybe not even so much confidence that they can hurt you without consequences, but confidence that they are tougher, can push you around, and then that in turn creates a stronger opponent.

    On the other side, the teams resorting to those tactics are generally inferior, so why would you want to get into those antics when it's basically what the other team wants?

    I'm no sports psychologist, but it's an interesting dilemma, and surely not a "one size fits all". Standing up to Brazil, making sure they respect your physicality, isn't the same as standing up to El Salvador, and getting a cheap yellow/red just to show you're tough.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas

    Of course Gio Reyna also starting training with the Dortmund first team.
    1290240267317125123 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  10. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    [​IMG]

    Point made!​

    [​IMG]

    And all ball to boot!​
     
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  11. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was just reminding Brazil that it was a friendly. Brazil came out pretty aggressive in that match for a friendly and this was a reminder that if they wanted to play straight up, there would be tackling. But, that kind of tackling would occur in a normal competitive match.
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Dortmund are minting currency. They got Pulisic, Reyna, Sancho, and Bellingham all on free transfers. Good chance they'll clear at least $250 million on transfers of those players.
     
  13. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I thought they just bought Bellingham for 20 mil with a sell-on clause? Sancho was less, I thought 6, but still paid for him I believe.
     
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  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Gloster has had some injuries which has made it harder for him. Ledezma and Uly are probably similar in a few ways. First, it is possible that Uly would have made a first team debut in the past season, but he went to January camp with the USMNT instead of Wolfsburg winter training. Similarly, Ledezma might have been closer but left for Olympic Qualifying. Ledezma also might have been on the field but Holland cancelled their season. The Bundesliga carried on and Uly made the bench but no appearances.

    So, now they are in roughly the same place. Richards is also about the same. .
    You get the sense the four of them are closer than Mendez, Booth, Edwards, and Hoppe. But these things can change rapidly. In England, Vassilev actually got appearances, but not in large chunks or consistently (like Reyna) and no starts, and Otasowie is roughly where Richards and Uly are.

    With WCQ'ing being pushed back 9 months, all these players have time to break through.
     
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  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Ream and Fulham play today in the C'shp promotion playoffs.

    Nova and Frosinone play tomorrow in the Serie promotion playoff. This would be great time to start knocking them in.

    I didn't see Johnny in Internacional's squad the other day. Perhaps back with the youth team.

    Bofo Saucedo played '57 minutes at left-mid in UNAM Pumas' 2-1 win over Atlas.
    2/3 ground duels, 3/3 long balls, 2 key passes
    SofaScore(6.9)5th
     
  16. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    They paid €10 MM for Sancho, iirc.
     
  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think there are two situations: 1. When the game is competitive 2. When the game is no longer competitive.

    Is situation #1, it is all less important. You need to not be intimidated and if you have players on your team the other team doesn't want to trigger, than that can give you confidence. Pulisic was fouled when games were in the balance. Answering every one of them with a foul is probably not super productive. You can also dissuade this behavior with a free kick goal or threat. You don't hack Messi within 25 yards of goal to intimidate him.

    In the Guatemala loss in 2016, Ruiz (?) and Guatemala was intimidating the Americans and being very physical. The ref was going to do nothing about it. Beckerman subbed in and the first 50/50 with Ruiz, he crunched him good. That stabilized the game (we lost anyway).

    It is situation #2 that is the bigger problem and we saw it in 2017. At the end of the Panama game, where we wiped the floor with them, the Panamanian almost breaks Pulisic's leg. He was actually iffy for Couva. That is the kind of decision that possibly is not made by that player if he thinks he himself will get his leg broken. Or a team mate will be seriously hurt. That is a decision made that is done knowing Bradley will give him a stern glare and Altidore might push him, but there is no Jones on the field to clean him out into the running boards. You wonder if Cameron was on the field, instead of McCarty, if he tries to break CP's leg.

    I think the non-response to that tackle was a small reason for Couva. I think it kind of further divided the locker room and killed the team chemistry a bit. Hard to quantify, but it was certainly a bit of a momentum sapper. Then the whole trip to Couva, Pulisic is constantly questionable because of it, being evaluated and discussed, just reminded everyone the kid, that is carrying them and getting all the media attention, was completely abused and nobody did anything.

    I saw some hard fouls on Pulisic in 2018 that were absolutely answered with hard fouls soon after. There wasn't so much of it in 2019. McKennie is intimidating, as is Miazga, but it doesn't have to be someone like that. It is more technique and mentality. Arriola was the chief enforcer. I don't know if Morris would do it, but he could do some damage if he wanted to.

    We will have good depth at a lot of spots. If Long takes a red for absolutely crushing an El Salvadoran, then Miazga can fill in or M Robinson. I do think some of Bradley's hesitation was that he felt the pressure of qualifying and felt he was so important, he couldn't afford a suspension. But I think the team took cues from his inaction.
     
  18. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    He was so important to qualifying...the problem is we would have benefited by him not being on the field, rather than on it!
     
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  19. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Plus - sure, it looks good when they sell these guys for 50-100 mil, but surely a ton of that success is their youth development program. 10 and 20 mil for a couple 16 year olds, I think, is pretty dang risky for most clubs. For Dortmund the risk is lessened because the odds they develop these kids properly is so high.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Depends on how you define success.
    They also have won't won the league since 2011.
    There's been a huge kerfluffle in the German media this week as the sale of Sancho draws near. Just another in a long line of impactful players to leave Dortmund. Dortmund is a big effin' club. There are a lot of people in Germany that wish they'd act like it instead of as a moving sidewalk to other big clubs. Borussia Dortmund isn't frickin' FC Dallas.

    Would Dortmund fans rather have 100 million in the bank, or keep Sancho in order to challenge Bayern next season?

    I'm sure they already have their "business plan" in place to sell Reyna in a few years.

    https://www.thesundaily.my/sport/do...ss-for-criticism-of-transfer-policy-YM3295199

    Hoeness had said Dortmund’s model of signing youngsters to sell at a huge profit meant players lacked identification with the club.

    “If Dortmund buy a highly talented player and he plays well, a few months later you will hear either from within the club itself or from outside, that he will eventually be for sale,” the 68-year-old said in an interview with Monday’s Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

    “How can a player absorb the DNA of a club 100% if he feels he is for sale? We don’t have that at all. We get players for Bayern Munich. And never to make a business out of it.”
     
  21. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Considering my entire post was about acquiring young players for cheap and selling them for immense profit, it should be quite obvious that's exactly how I was defining success.
     
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  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think they leverage their success to get the best prospects. If you look at their youth teams, it is mostly Germans with a few internationals. But the internationals are usually top prospects that they have paid for. This is why it is exciting when Dortmund are after an American and sign them. They don't have to pay much for Americans, but they went all out for Pulisic (gave his Dad a job, brought his cousin), and wined and dined the Reyna's for 3 years.

    The latest is Angel(?) Martinez from Seattle, which is one I've not heard of.
     
  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Except the $100 million doesnt go into the bank. In most season they buy a similar amount as they sell. They sold CP for $70M. In the six months after he left they bought Brandt, Hazard, and Haaland for 28, 27.5, and 22 respectively. I'd say they improved the team substantially by only sending an additional $7.5M (funded by other sales).

    Dortmund is a big club but nearly as big as Bayern or the clubs they sell players to for big money. If they followed the path that you and Hoeness suggest, they are much more likely to fall to fourth or lower than actually win the league. Instead,mtheynare consistently 2nd and win every now an again. They had a chance to win this year but couldnt put it together in the end. Btw, FCD doesn't resemble BVB at all.
     
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  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    #2874 Patrick167, Aug 4, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
    Pulisic and Sancho wanted to play in the EPL. You don't attract players by squashing them and forcing them to stay. I think everyone has been honest with each other. Haaland is not a lifetime BVB player either. FCD is just learning that you have to work to further the player's career, not just maximize your own return. SKC can't seem to figure it out. RSL not much either. LA Galaxy, a complete basket case of developing players, getting use out of them, and moving them on.

    To digress just on this subject, at least they are selling the players out of the league. Losing players, mostly for free, to Bayern was the problem.
     
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  25. felloveranddidanadu

    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Dec 12, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Frogs
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Taitague looks much, much fitter here than I remember. The kid has had terrible luck with injuries but seems to be very highly rated by those who have played with him/seen him play. Hopefully he can actually stay healthy enough to get onto the field in any capacity.
     

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