Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2019/20 Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    That doesn't sound good. That's a level too high for him imo. Seems the hype train has gone a bit overboard.
     
  2. Bite o' the Cherry

    Charlotte FC
    United States
    May 3, 2006
    Charlotte, NC, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah those dilettants over at Gladbach. What do they know anyway?
     
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  3. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    #2778 KALM, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    The Adams and Davies precedent so far is two seasons of regular playing time in MLS, and a legitimate MLS All-Star game inclusion in their last season before a move to a Champions League Bundesliga club.

    In that sense, this does seem a little early, with only one full MLS season under his belt, and with him only really starting to dominate this season. But maybe those success stories are inspiring clubs to take a flier with less prior demonstrated success.

    It's also possible they plan to use him sparingly at first with an eye toward longer term development.

    I should note: the article's paywalled for me, so I'm trusting that twitter account's summary of the reporting.
     
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  4. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scottish premier league has started up again. Ian Harkes started in the middle and wend 90 for recently promoted Dundee United. Dillon Powers, a regular fixture last season, was on the bench this game.
     
  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From hero to zero (minutes) Pulisic because he pulls up lame at the end of a wonder run, subsequent to an earlier wonder goal. Thinks he blew his hamstring, by the reaction.

    Now it's especially positive CONCACAF delayed qualifying close to a year, because there'd be serious question if he'd be ready now any time w/in the next several months.

    All the way until next June, that alleviates the problem greatly, presuming he eventually comes back near 100%.
     
  6. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    bright side- with pulisic out bayern might as well start chris richards next week
     
  7. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    For reference:

    September Friendlies USMNT Standouts

    “I'm a little surprised by the tenor of the Robinson comments. I think they're fully based on future projections and not the totality of the two performances. Being high on him long-term is the correct opinion but he's weak on balls played in-behind or over his head. He's shown that in other games. Right now teams with good, fast RW threats are going to try to exploit him. He needs to get better or it's going to cost us points because he's one of our best options at the spot, despite this.”

    Addressing your comments:

    1. I think this is one of the most unintentionally telling things you have ever posted, because it’s concerned with narratives and not fact and context. This is what would concern a propagandist. What actually happened and what it actually means is less important than the narrative and how it fits into the project one is committed to.

    I go back to our first posts on this site, mine was to criticize the project of Chivas USA (how’d that turn out?) and yours was the first in a series defending Klinsmann (same question). When someone is driven either consciously or unconsciously by motivated reason their factual assertions and analysis can’t be fully trusted. For example...

    2. “A poor showing in a cameo”, what? He played 90 against Brazil, 34 against Mexico, 76 against Colombia, 1 against Peru, and then 80 against Jamaica. There’s only one cameo and we aren’t talking about it. In between Peru and Jamaica Robinson had a longterm injury, not playing between 11/10/18 and 3/9/19. He came back to the U23’s in the March window and he looked rusty, playing 45 against Egypt (not good) and then 65 against the Dutch.

    I know some people claim to hold players to a global standard but it seems to be selectively applied. I’d encourage people to evaluate actions based on this and then the depth chart based on the options. So Robinson can be a flawed but developing young defender who made too many errors and our best LB, welcome to the USMNT.

    In that Jamaica match, all 80 non-cameo minutes he played, he did not play to the standard of a successful GC starting LB. The team was dire. I think I called it one of worst team performances I’ve seen. Individually Antonee was not the worst but he didn’t perform in a way that wins more minutes. I still would have brought him to the GC, if his club supported that for their somewhat injury stricken young LB. I have never rated Lovitz, he’s at best an average MLS LB with nothing pointing to greater potential. I would have preferred Hollingshead or a somewhat out of position Lima over Lovitz. Gaspar, Vines, and possibly Guttman all deserve more of a look from the MLS pool as of today. Toia I like more. The Ream LB/LCB thing even makes more sense. I’d bring Kenny Saeif back in before Lovitz, to say nothing of the also out of position Chandler.

    In September Robinson got brought back with the U23’s and played well in the one game he started, albeit against a replacement opponent. I would have wanted him for March Olympic qualifying and been working for the past couple years with his club to have him available. Berhalter went with the incumbents in the Nation’s League and Antonee had missed out on his chance to be in that group due to underperforming with the U23’s and then the full team earlier in the year. Managing Euro based players’ minutes to keep their clubs happy is also a constant concern in non-crucial matches (Pulisic, Dest, Brooks, and Yedlin were all rotated) but Robinson was almost certainly just left out.

    So he’s missed 2 windows and been diverted to the Olympic team in one. I’m not going to waste my time arguing about 30 other players and their form and the depth chart when the simple fact is if a player shows a key weakness in their game and then has a couple of bad performances they are liable to get dropped down the depth chart, simple as that.
     
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  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The US isn't a club team that can pick up players at will. If you have a chance to cap-tie a 21 y/o who is starter in the C-ship then you take the opportunity. Worry about the 'depth chart' later, especially when your depth chart consists of Tim Ream and Daniel Lovitz.
     
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  9. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I too agree that when you consider more than current form or his club’s wishes bringing him to the GC made sense, which is what I said I’d do.
     
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  10. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I think this is the crux of the issue for most people here. Robinson has a bad game or two, dropped down the depth chart. Roldan, Long, Trapp, Bradley, Lovitz, etc. have bad performances, they don't get dropped anywhere, except back in the lineup the next time out...
     
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  11. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    So because Berhalter made a mistake elsewhere he should make a mistake here? Lovitz benefited from the timing of Robinson’s poor form, and lack of track record, and lest we forget Berhalter’s original system doesn’t use an attacking LB.

    You can lookup the % of minutes those guys played since Jamaica and who in their role was fit as your project.

    Trapp has dropped to 3rd at deep distributor, a role he was one of 3 reasonable options at. Bradley’s place is going to be interesting, he’s obviously getting the veteran leader bump. Trapp got the “knows the system and can teach it” bump.

    Roldan’s biggest competition on the depth chart, Holmes, reaggravated a lingering injury before the GC and missed Derby’s first 5 league matches. Holmes has no history with the squad or really YNT’s to fall back on. Injuries have also affected other CM’s. Lletget has nudged ahead of Roldan. Aaronson and Pomykal are closing in. Morales is a bad stylistic fit and mediocre. I’ve never liked Roldan for the international level, even going back to YNT’s. He is a very good performer in MLS, metrics like him as well, so giving him a chance as a backup is understandable.

    No RCB has separated themselves from the pack. Long is a reasonable incumbent based on his track record. There are more talented options but they have to take it from him.

    We aren’t going to know what the real depth chart is until next June. Maybe the March friendlies give us a good clue. That’s when the knives people have had out since Couva can start cutting the throats that have been calling their names.
     
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He could've been capped in a Nations League match, as well.
     
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  13. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    'Project'. This is international football. You cap-tie serious potential when possible. Before Qualifying starts, Berhalter will have had very few additional games with the full team.
     
  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Trapp started the first game after the GC. The all important, would be negligent not to do it, game against Mexico.

    Roldan started 4 of 6 games after the GC. He started three of the four competitive games we had in the Fall. Even after the Jamaica friendly performance, even after a blah GC, even after giving the ball right to Canada for a 1 v 1 with Steffan in the abysmal loss in Toronto.

    Bradley and Roldan were the center midfield pairing in the biggest game after the GC. Lletget, Trapp, Yueill and McKennie were available for the #8 spot.

    Lovitz is 28 and had been completely ignored by all the previous coaches. He had 13 caps, including time in the GC final and semi-final. He started both of the first CNL games. He started the last CNL game. He was sold for $50K in cap space on the day of his last USMNT start. A short time later, AC Milan bought Robinson for $10 MM.

    Anyone can say whatever, but there was no logic to taking Lovitz and giving him the first and last starts, and 647'. He was so poor, in MLS and with the USMNT, that you can argue for any other LB to be given a chance. But only one had made an obvious step forward in development and was only 21. Robinson should have had a chance in that last window, at a minimum. If not the one before.

    Talent identification has been a real problem for Gregg.
     
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  15. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    So I’ve seen things written about this a few times here and I’m curious. Does anyone have any real experience with this scenario actually playing out. I’ve never experienced this as a player or coach. Has anyone ever pulled out of a tackle or lessened their physicality because they were worried another player on the other team might tackle one of your teammates hard in retaliation. I’ve been involved in some vicious matches with brutal tackles from both sides. When the ref let things go, my experience has been the physicality just escalates.
     
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  16. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    #2791 yurch10, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    Just chalk it up as another BS "truism" without any proof, along with "he needs time to SETTLE IN with his club", "we need experience to qualify in the Hex", and "poor performances mean you get demoted (but only for European players)". Usually these have been used to defend poor management decisions, but not in this case.

    I simply want the best players on the field, and McKennie is undoubtedly one of those.
     
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  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    what position does he play?
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Keep your eyes peeled folks........................
    It may not signal a longer term role, but de la Fuente may be in the 18 for effing Barcelona this week.
    1289638210608549888 is not a valid tweet id
     
  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Opportunity for Haji Wright in Denmarki!!
     
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  20. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The game against Napoli is next Saturday. It would be insane if he gets minutes.
     
  21. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Decent landing spot for him. He's a good season away from sneaking back into the NT picture
     
  22. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    What an odd post.

    1. As I wrote in a previous post "the narrative doesn't match what actually happened". That happens to be a big problem with discussions on here. I dont see what is so telling about that.

    2. I used the word cameo because that is the word that the previous poster. I know you like to get caught up in semantics, so I will clarify. When I wrote "cameo under a new coach", I meant first time playing for berhalter. I thought that was relevant because many of the players that played poorly that day had been in the previous two camps and played poorly then as well.

    You wrote a lot but still didn't answer the question. why were all the other players not left off for bad performances in that game and others?
     
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    This is an amusing list of excuses for why poor MLS players got way too many minutes and euro based players were excluded.

    Your take on RCB spot is absurd. What do you think Long's track record is? He is an inexperienced 27 yo who is athletic. He doesn't read the game well. He ball watches. He gets pulled out of position. He gets beat on the dribble. Most obviously, he isnt comfortable with the ball at his (interesting for a guy who played midfield his whole life prior to a few years ago) which kills the one thing Berhalter is trying to accomplish.

    Miazga has clearly outplayed him when he has gotten his chances. CCV played well in his limited time.
     
  24. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Lletget, Yueill, and McKennie started the 2nd Canada game. That’s depth chart turnover based on performance.

    McKennie started all 4 of the Nations League games in CM. He fell asleep on Dos Santos’ tournament winning goal in the GC final, an arguably actually important match. Where was his punishment for that error, some inconsistent play, and playing in Europe?!? Maybe his overall track record and established standing on the depth chart outweighed the mistakes.

    Tyler Adams, the other first team CM, was injured until just before Christmas. Duane Holmes came into the GC camp with an injury, likely wasn’t fully himself, and missed the first 5 league matches for his club and the September friendly window. Berhalter decided to go with the incumbents who knew his system for the 2 Nations League windows. Holmes and Robinson both had poorly timed longterm injuries that put them in bad positions for winning a place at the top of the depth chart for their roles but their national team careers aren’t over just quiet yet.

    As I’ve already said I would have made some different decisions. I can explain the thinking behind what Berhalter did without endorsing it. Lovitz was a left-footed defensive LB, he did better than Robinson in Berhalter’s eyes in a long camp, he was a better fit for the system and he got to enjoy some incumbency advantage to be a backup. What happens next will be telling.
     
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  25. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I do agree that you twist words to suit your pre-established narrative.
     

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