The Coming ‘Golden Generation’ Will Not Accomplish What the 2002 Team Accomplished

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by NietzscheIsDead, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Two more in the machine................
    Hernandez came come the Galaxy academy. Kayo from DCU academy.
    1282647471898992649 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  2. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    "The Coming ‘Golden Generation’ Will Not Accomplish What the 2002 Team Accomplished"

    My answer to that would be that the rest of the region being better than before being a big reason for that. This generation is still very good but others in CONCACAF improved as well
     
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  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug. It sure is. Also, it should be noted, the 2002 team really struggled in qualifying. They even had difficulties in the semfinal round before the hex. Once they got to the World Cup, they did really well. OF course, also had a ton of luck on their side (which is often needed as a team advances at the WC).

    I mean.......................what's happening right now in the US program with all the young players isn't a surprise. The US has been to three U20 World Cup quarterfinals in a row for the first time in its history. Its the US that has won the last two CONCACAF U20 Championships. Not only are there the elite youngsters, but there's a depth of youngsters as well. The quality of player that didn't make our U20 World Cup team this past cycle is higher than its ever been. And that's without players like Sargent and Adams participating.

    So we'll see. But it's worth noting that other than the 2018WCQing (kerplunk; splat).......................there are few signs that the US isn't near the top in this region. Its the US that won the 2017 Gold Cup. Its the US that was in the final of the 2019 GOld Cup. Its the US that's now in the semfinal of the Nations League. In its last game before the shutdown the US beat Costa Rica, and did so with ease.

    Will WCQIng be hard? Yes. It always is. Every time.
     
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  4. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Since FIFA changed the rules so that clubs no longer have to release players for U20 and U23 events, the prestige associated has dropped considerably.
     
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I'm curious about the opportunity that those players get at pro level in the US.

    Do they get minutes in MLS, USL, overseas?

    For us, "most" are stuck in USL limbo and the good ones aren't release by their clubs,
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All the 2019 USNT U20 WC players still in the US are on MLS first team rosters. None are playing in USL.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    And about half of the U17 World Cup squad members who are still in the US is on a MLS roster right now.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    There are a host of USYNTs getting significant minutes in Europe now, with a lot on the cusp. And LOTS in MLS. Hell, a third of FC Dallas' roster alone is eligible for USYNTs. Led by Cannon, Pomykal, Ferreira, Tessman, Pepi, Roberts, etc.

    Clint Eastwood starting XI of USYNTers (our definition of USYNT on these boards is Olympic team eligible or younger) that actually play first team soccer in Europe. The only problematic position is goalkeeper, where Klinsmann only made a few appearances this season in Switzerland. [Palmer-Brown is on loan from Man City; Carter-Vickers is on loan from Spurs.]

    ------------Sargent (Bremen)---------
    Pulisic (Chelsea)-Reyna (Dortmund)-Weah (Lille)
    ------Adams (Leipzig)-McKennie (Schalke)----
    Robinson (Wigan)-Carter-Vickers (Luton)-Palmer-Brown (Vienna)-Dest (Ajax)
    ----------Klinsmann (St. Gallen)---------

    No room for players like Indiana Vassilev, who's been coming off the bench in the Premier League for Aston Villa.

    Tons of rumors of Robinson being sold by Wigan (Leicester is being heavily linked). Tons or rumors of McKennie being sold by Schalke (that'll be an interesting one, but some BIG club are being mentioned)

    And there's just a wave on the cusp: Chris Richards at Bayern Munich, Richie Ledezma at PSV, Uly Llanez at Wolfsburg. Alex Mendez at Ajax. That list goes on and on.

    Make no mistake. Pulisic and McKennie weren't a "one time" thing. There are waves and waves of American kids heading to Europe. That's how a national team program makes three straight U20WC quarterfinals. Just wave after wave. I mean, this upcoming U20WC team (if the event even happens) could be led by Gio Reyna (Dortmund), Uly Llanez (Wolfsbrug), Konrad de la Fuente (Barcelona), Johan Gomez (Porto), Cameron Harper (Celtic), Jalen Hawkins (Ingolstadt), Matteo Ritaccio (Liverpool), CHituru Odunze (Leicester), Kobe Hernandez (Wolfsbrug), Stuart Richie (Hannover), Travain Sousa (Hamburg).....................I can keep going. Not all those kids will "make it" as adult professionals, but the base of talent is broad. I didn't even include all of the MLS kids in that crew that are getting playing time. Tanner Tessman of FC Dallas is really good.
     
  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's more. And 2 of the 3 contracted to USL clubs during the WC have moved to Germany.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4 out of the 21 are playing in USL, 3 of them for reserve teams.
     
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Of those still in the US, Bello, Leyva, Yow, Busio, Pepi, Scally, Gray, Sebastian Anderson, AOC and Ethan Dobbleare are all on MLS rosters, though not all have played (AOC, Dolbbleare, Gray, Scally haven't this year).

    Given MLS rosters, I kind of don't count the guys who haven't played.

    That leaves just Saldana, Jasson, Armour and Aaron Cervantes as guys in the US not on an MLS roster. That's more than 50/50. But if you toss in the 4 without minutes, it's about 50/50.
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Armour announced a move to Germany this week.
     
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  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    By the way, I'm also OK with Aaron Cervantes' position. He made 11 appearances in the USL Championship level as a 17 year old goalkeeper last season. He's now 18.

    Where else is a 17 year old goalkeeper going to get first team playing time? That's not bad.................

    He was probably the 4th best goalkeeper in that age group anyway. Las (Fulham), Odunze (Leicester), and Wady (Chelsea) are probably top 3.

    By the way, another youth goalkeeper is on Euro trial right now. Apparently Seth Wilson of FCD has a Real Betis trial lined up, and other clubs in Europe are interested.
     
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    18 year old American centerback at Norwich.
    1283785668867629056 is not a valid tweet id
     
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    19 year old central midfielder at Cincinnati
    1283798600162648065 is not a valid tweet id
     
  16. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    upload_2020-7-16_13-23-59.png
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great performance and hat-trick for Ayo Akinola tonight for Toronto against Montreal.

    Chris Mueller has been impressive in his 2 starts for Orlando.

    Greg Berhalter's son will make his first start for Columbus tonight.
     
  18. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, keep in mind is a whole lot easier to score on a strong team than scoring on a team that is fighting relegation.
     
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  19. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me, Aaronson looks legit. I'll keep an eye on that kid.
     
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  20. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    The question for me is whether Sargent beats out Jozy for the starting spot by the WC or not.
    i'd figure we will play with a solo striker.
     
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We'll see. I think Berhalter will give him the opportunity to win the job.
    After not participating at the 2019 Gold Cup, Sargent started 3 of our 4 CONCACAF Nations League games.

    Sargent needs to prove he can get the job done against elite international teams. His USMNT goals came against Cuba (x3), Bolivia, and Peru. Peru is a good program, so that's one good goal. Folks will remember how abysmal that Bolivia team was that Sargent scored against. Horrible.

    As we've pointed out, he hasn't actually scored against a good Bundesliga team either. Only teams in the bottom half of the table this season.
     
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  22. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I look at it differently. Is the kid scoring difficult goals? I don't care who the opponent is.
    I remember when Jozy was scoring a bunch of goals in the Eredivisie but most were either tap-ins or defense errors. Someone even compared him to Lewandoski because of a similar number of goals. You can't just go strictly go by the numbers.
     
  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    No you can't, but Altidore also scored goals for the USMNT against good national teams. Mexico, Spain, Turkey, Poland, Germany, Nigeria, Bosnia, Colombia, Chile, Denmark, Iceland.........................the list goes on.

    We can all say "Oh, all Jozy did was score a bazillion goals in Holland." Well..................how many USMNT forwards have we produced with better resumes than that? Precious few.

    Jozy will perpetually be undervalued because he never had the signature goal-scoring event for the USMNT. Just reality for him. Fact of life. McBride, Wynalda, Donovan, Dempsey, etc. all have signature moments and tournaments. If you're a USMNT forward and you don't do the business on the biggest stage, then you'll be disregarded. The Gold Cup performances, the WCQing goals...........are all forgotten. Jovan Kirvoski for instance. The opposite is true as well. John O'brien played less that 100 career soccer games. Other than 1.5 seasons at Ajax, he barely played the sport. But that 2002 signature event means he'll be considered a legend forever. Rightfully so.

    Sargent, Weah, etc. are all young. They have tons of time on their side. Sargent's peak will hopefully be WC 2026, so we have a long time to go with him. Lots of time to develop. But let's not put the cart before the horse. Right now in 2020 his resume is very sparse.
     
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  24. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Precisely. Jozy needed/needs a World cup gamewinner to secure us to the QF or a trio of goals to stake his claim.
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    He has good events, just not the World Cup itself.

    Jozy Altidore is our all-time leader in WCQing goals. Not Brian McBride. Not Landon Donovan. Not Clint Dempsey. Its Jozy Altidore. He also has had signature Gold Cups. He scored important goals in the 2017 Gold Cup semfinal against Costa Rica and final against Jamaica as we won the event.

    Anyway, I'm not saying anything about Altidore that people don't already know. The man has done IT ALL for the USMNT other than have a signature World Cup.

    Right now in 2020 Jozy Altidore has scored roughly 150 career goals in first team club soccer. He scored 51 goals in 93 games for AZ. Anybody can watch a Youtube highlight package and have a basic understanding that they weren't all tap-ins.

    Anway..................I'm not some Jozy Altidore apologist. We all know what he hasn't accomplished. I just think some folks are too quick to dismiss his accomplishments and importance to the USMNT.

    Josh Sargent has a way to go to accomplish in his career what Jozy has in his. A long way. And I'm happy for that hand-off to occur. But as I said, let's not predetermine Josh's success. Let's not put the cart before the horse. He has to go out and perform in games against elite opposition. Jozy Altidore scored a goal in an official competition against the #1-ranked team in the world. [Spain in the Confederations Cup.] Would you like me to name the defenders and goalkeeper on the field there?
     
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