Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He didn't say that, you're right. But he's said so much over all of his posts for a while now. I do trust that Dortmund know what they are doing given their track history, but @yurch10 has a penchant for making determinations of a given player's worth by what team he plays for. He was one of the posters who was vociferous that McKennie should have been in the US team when he had 7 minutes for Schalke in the last game of their season (after the fact, of course).
     
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  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    McKennie should have been at the 2017 GC. Arena got a lot wrong after the Azteca game.

    But that is neither here or there.

    There is a level of play in world soccer that is just too high to ignore at this time for the USMNT. Maybe Yurch or someone has called for a Gruether Firth player or a Dusseldorf player. That is not the same as a Dortmund player.

    There is no reason to die on this hill. Being excited about the emergence of Reyna is so much more fun! Embrace it!
     
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  3. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, make no mistake. I'm excited about Reyna. I think the kid has all the tools. And I agree that Arena made many mistakes. I don't think that not calling a kid with a tiny handful of minutes up for WCQ was one of them. Years on from that, McKennie has continued to show that he's a good player, with yet a higher up side, but not some be all end all.
     
  4. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Ream is still kind of a tweener. He can't really get forward effectively enough to be a fullback, but he's not really physical enough to be a center back in a 4-man backline IMO. Because of this issue with physicality, I find it impressive that he's found so much success in the Championship. Putting him in the left center back spot in a 3-man backline mitigates both of these issues - Ream won't have to go forward, and will have insurance alongside two more physical partners. And the US would need talented passers in its backline if the system would work.

    I think Ream could have had 20-30 more caps if the US had played a consistent 3-man backline in the 2010s.
     
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  5. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Assume you're talking with one of my many admirers (ie. stalkers) I had to provide with a BS restraining order...

    But any time I get to rehash the illustrious GC17 championship, I get excited. Bringing in the Big Gunz, the Lions, in order to retain that key trophy over Jamaica B at the expense of any kind of promotion of competition in the squad (Miazga 45 minutes total, McKennie ignored, Jon Gonzalez ignored who was starting for 1st/2nd place team in LigaMx). One of my favorite topics, along with the "well, yeah, Brucie failed more than anyone ever thought possible, but every other decision might have also failed!!!"

    What a group we have here.

    Yes - a top 10 team in the world starter/rotation player simply can't be ignored. Not West Ham, or Leeds, or Firth, or Dusseldorf. No clue why it's so hard to understand. But then again, I think my stalkers likely don't think logically, but simply want to prove me wrong somehow, which is exceedingly difficult.
     
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  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You're wrong about defending with only six!
     
  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Maybe...though at this point, with this amount of talent, I would much rather throw out our best players vs. sticking a very average 3rd center back in there.

    Pulisic has been tracking back well. I think Morris could do that. There's 8. Sure they aren't great defenders maybe, but midfielders don't need to be. If you're super concerned still, I'd prefer another 8-type, like Pomykal if he can figure out how to get on the field with any team, or Holmes, to clog the midfield, which is more useful than 3 stiffs standing around the 18. That likely puts Gio on the bench, but as well all know, he's only 17 and HASN'T EVEN STARTED A GAME PROFESSIONALLY (i might be a slightly late with that argument, whatever).

    You make it sound like we used to have Bonucci and Chiellini back there. Our team has always been average everywhere. Brooks/Robinson/Dest are among the most talented players we have ever rolled out there. McKennie and Adams are probably the 2 most talented defensive-minded midfielders we've ever had. But that's not enough for you. We need MORE defense!

    If your idea was so amazing, everyone would just play against ManCity and Liverpool with 3 CBs. But nobody does. Nor should we, especially when the 2nd/3rd CBs you're proposing are nowhere near our best 11 players.
     
  8. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're so full of shit I'd think you were Jurgen Klinsmann. You don't have any stalkers, dude. Just people that don't like arguing with arrogant (think they) know-it-alls who happen to follow the same threads that you're active in. Imagine that, other people are interested in the USMNT, too!
     
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  9. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Last night Morris defended regularly back to his own 18. But boy did that match suuuuccckkkk.
     
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  10. Sylvius

    Sylvius Member

    Jul 18, 2013
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I honestly like the idea of Dest on the left because, like Pulisic, he’s really good at cutting inside and adding numbers to the middle of the field. I know it doesn’t give us much width on the left, that’s an issue but am curious about how it might work. As for Reyna vs Pomykal, I suppose I’m not yet convinced enough by Reyna’s engine to play in a 3 man midfield in CONCACAF. He’s stellar in his role for BVB but this is a very different ask.
     
  11. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Some were anticipating a Pomykal sale to Europe after the MLS tournament on the theory that he’d show up well there and entice European clubs to pay for him. Now that FC Dallas was excluded due to COVID sloppiness, that may not happen. He is fun to watch; would love to see if he could do the same things at a higher level.
     
  12. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was bad boring soccer for sure. I would like that hour and half back.
     
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  13. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So which players that Arena called ahead of McKennie during that time period has proven to be a "be all end all"? Dax? Roldan? Acosta? Kellyn Rowe, Joe Corona?
     
  14. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None of those. Yet they all had more than 8 first-team minutes to their credit. This sort of argument is tiring. By the way, Dax McCarty was absolutely on fire when he was called up 3 years ago. It doesn't matter how he's doing now, at 33.
     
  15. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is tiring is fans and a coach who does not understand or recognize talent.

    As for 'on fire", Dax has always been a very limited player who is just not international quality. He was found out during his first start in the B team GC2017.

    A good manager scouting Weston vs the named competition would have included Wes before any of those others. Talent is talent, Bradley and Klinsmann recognized that simple fact and would have called up and fast tracked McKennie and Adams.
     
  16. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're really saying that Arena should have called up a CM...for his first cap...in a crunch time WCQer...after playing 8 minutes of first team soccer? Delusional. Quality or not, this is completely delusional.
     
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  17. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that would be weird to call up a kid for his first cap in that kind of match. Kind of unfair to the kid. The players on the roster for T&T were more than good enough to win. For various reasons, it didn’t happen.
     
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  18. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Nobody has argued to start McKennie against T&T. That has been crafted to defend Brucie. The argument was that McKennie should have been at the Gold Cup, which was before (I think) the last 4 qualifiers, since he was already promoted to Schalke's first team. The argument was also to give Miazga more time in that tournament (he got 45 minutes total), as well as to call up Jon Gonzalez for the same tournament (again, to promote competition).

    Which of these points do you disagree with?
     
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  19. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll remind you, even though I've pointed it out before (and you just ignore it because it's a FACT you don't like): McKennie got his first minutes (13--I was wrong, it's not 8) on May 20, 2017. The Gold Cup provisional rosters were due in on June 2, less than 2 weeks after the kid made his first team debut. I suppose he could have been on the provisional roster to see what he was about, but not calling up an 18 year old CM who has played 13 minutes (in the last game of the season as a "thanks for the hard work") isn't some travesty, no matter how good he ends up being at 27.
     
  20. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is just your typical uninformed response.

    Arena should have been tracking McKennie at Schalke ii the Spting 2017. Arena should have called up McKennie for the B team Gold Cup 2017 camp that started June 25. A reminder, here is Arena's 40 roster midfield:

    MIDFIELDERS (15): Paul Arriola (Club Tijuana/MEX), Alejandro Bedoya (Philadelphia Union), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC/CAN), Joe Corona (Club Tijuana/MEX), Dax McCarty (Chicago Fire), Tommy McNamara (New York City FC), Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers), Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas), Chris Pontius (Philadelphia Union), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund/GER), Cristian Roldan (Seattle Sounders FC), Kelyn Rowe (New England Revolution), Kenny Saief (Gent/BEL), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC), Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy)

    The primary job of an international manager is talent identification. Bob Bradley would have called Weston, just look at BB's record. Klinsmann might have called Weston just on Wes making the first team. Talent is talent!
     
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  21. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    of course, neither of the posters you have responded to were saying that. They simply said he should have been fast tracked and there was plenty of room on the GC roster to do so.

    Your whole argument is "first team minutes". Unfortunately, the usmnt coach needs to actually be able to assess talent. What is odd about your argument that mckennie wasn't ready in July, September or October is that he started in Novemeber and has generally been a starter since. That is the opposite of fast tracking.
     
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  22. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Why doesn't anyone check McKennie's injury history and compares to the NT camps when he was not called?

    Like most of our players in Europe, Wes has had a lot of injuries, a full page already at his age.
     
  23. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3773 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Jul 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
    Weston was not injured during the B team GC2017!

    Pulisic made his BuLi debut Jan 24, 2016 as a 17yo. 2 months later (March 27) Klinsmann had Puli on the roster for a must win WCQ match against Guatemala who had beaten us 0-2 at their house.

    Talent is talent and international managers must recognize talent!

    Most of us remember GB calling Reggie Cannon into his first January camp. Cannon not only did not get on the field, he was not called back for any subsequent camp until Adams got hurt before GC2019. Berhalter seems to be another USMNT manager who has difficulties identifying which players a re international quality and which are below the raston line!
     
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  24. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can really tell who started watching football under the daftness of the Klinsmann era with some of the responses.

    So, McKennie's inexperience directly lead to Mexico's game-winning goal in the GC Final in 2019. But people are saying Arena's big failure was not relying on this player to anchor CM in must-win games against good CONCACAF team's 2 years earlier?
     
  25. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Agree. Arena was more of moron for not starting Bedoya in central midfield.
     

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