FourFourTwo 101 best footballers of the last 25 years

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by schwuppe, May 16, 2019.

  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #376 carlito86, Jul 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  2. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #378 carlito86, Jul 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
    Directly comparing players from 10 years apart with different functions/roles within the team
    Completely different skillsets
    Doesn't sound too fair

    I won't even go into the gulf in quality/technical ability/set piece ability/Aerial ability/ the ability to take over CL KO matches/difference in age/how defensive and non friendly the PL was for attackers/ gulf in crossing ability/aesthetic quality

    Let's not go there because it is tedious

    But I'll be fair

    Prime R9 was from 1996 up until his injury vs lecce in 1999

    During that timeframe he was outscored 12 times by 12 separate players

    1.)Eredivisie 1995/96
    Luc nillis
    21 goals

    R9
    12 goals


    2.)Uefa cup 1995/96
    Klinsmann 15 goals

    R9 6 goals

    3.)
    Copa del rey 1996/97
    Klimowicz 7 goals

    R9 6 goals

    4.)
    Uefa cup winners cup 96/97

    Robbie Fowler
    7 goals

    R9
    5 goals

    5.)
    Copa America 1997
    Luis Hernandez 6 goals

    R9
    5 goals

    6.)
    Coppa Italia 97/98
    Giuseppe Signori
    5 goals

    R9
    3 goals

    7.)
    Serie A 97/98
    Bierhoff
    27 goals

    R9
    25 goals

    8.)
    Uefa cup 97/98
    Stéphane Guivarc'h
    7 goals

    R9
    6 goals

    9.)
    World cup 1998

    David suker
    6 goals

    R9
    4 goals

    10.)
    Serie A 1998/99
    Marcio amoroso
    22 goals

    R9
    14 goals

    11.)
    Champions league 98/99
    Andriy shevchenco
    8 goals

    R9
    1 goal

    12.)
    Coppa Italia 98/99
    Hernan crespo 6 goals

    R9
    0 goals


    Assists?
    LOL





    R9 played for the best or second best team in Holland,Spain and Italy

    His assists are laughable

    Even Gabriel batistuta could record 10 assists in a single league campaign

    Batistuta had 10 league assists in 97/98
    https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Batistuta


    GOAT R9 had 4 assists in Serie A 97/98

    The playmaker/false 9/Messi prototype had 4 assists in Serie A 97/98



    George weah had 8 serie A assists in 1997/98
    https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Weah

    Del piero had 12 assists in Serie A 97/98
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997–98_Serie_A

    Baggio and zidane had 9 assists apiece in 97/98

    Which kind of false 9 has 4 wide assists in a full league campaign

    Playing for the highest scoring team in the league
    Inter was the highest scoring team in Serie A
    In 96/97 and 97/98





    Sadly
    Tropiero is truly a butthurt Brazilian fanboy who knows deep down that Cristiano wipes the floor with every Brazilian legend outside Pele

    And we say with the exception of Pele purely out of respect

    You teleport 2012 CR to the 1950s campeonato paulista with those part timers and he would score 150 official goals in a single season

    Teleport him back to the 1970 WC where every player had 20 seconds on the ball with no pressure and he would completely decimate any defence

    I told you before many times
    Cristiano is the greatest header of the ball in history

    UFO Leaps 2.56 metres off the ground
    2a58373137144a52a0a25d296475a35f_XL.jpg

    That would be the headline in 1958

    Now What about the service /delivery of prime Figo,David Beckham or garrincha providing him crosses from the Wing


    If garrincha had an aerial threat like CR to provide to he would help him score 15 header goals in 1 single world cup edition


    And you would never hear of R9 or klose
     
  4. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    #379 Tropeiro, Jul 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
    [​IMG]

    Stats


    Salah

    31 Non-PK Goals + 10 Assists, 19 Non-PK Goals + 8 Assists, 16 Non-PK Goals and 10 Assists
    Total:
    66 Non-PK Goals + 28 Assists in 9043 minutes (=100.5 matches)
    = 0.935 non-PK Goals or assists per 90.

    Liverpool scored Goals 240 in 106 Matches = 2.26

    Salah 0.935/2.26 = 41.37%


    Cristiano Ronaldo
    14 Non-PK Goals + 8 Assists, 27 Non-PK Goals + 6 Assists, 14 Non-PK Goals and 6 Assists
    55 Non-PK Goals + 20 Assists in 8279 minutes (=92 matches)
    = 0.815 non-PK Goals or assists per 90.

    United scored 216 Goals in 101 Matches = 2.14

    Cristiano = 38.08%


    Rooney
    14 Non-PK Goals + 11 Assists, 12 Non-PK Goals + 10 Assists, 12 Non-PK + 7 Assists
    38 Non-PK Goals + 28 Assists in 7376 minutes (= 82 matches)
    = 0.805 non-PK Goals or assists per 90

    United scored 195 Goals in 92 matches = 2.12

    0.805/2.12 = 37.97%

    Mané
    17 Non-PK Goals + 7 Assists, 22 Non-PK Goals + 1 Assist, 10 Non-PK Goals + 7 Assists
    49 Non-PK Goals + 15 Assists in 7935 minutes (= 88.2 matches)
    = 0.725 non-PK Goals or assists per 90

    Liverpool scored 215 Goals in 98 matches = 2.19

    0.725/2.193 = 33%


    Salah record in EPL for Liverpool = 2.386 PPM
    Cristiano record in EPL for United = 2.376 PPM


    Champions League record (data from Transfermarkt)

    Cristiano Ronaldo = 15 Goals + 9 Assists in 34 Matches (0.705)
    Salah = 19 Goals + 9 Assists in 33 Matches (0.85)


    Elo method

    United Elo Points = 1879 ===> 1993 (Peak: 2026)
    Liverpool Elo Points = 1835 ==> 1991 (Peak: 2084)

    What more? Record vs TOP5? vs well ranked clubs in the Elo points?

    Fact is Salah deserves more credit.

    Ronaldo just updated his goalscoring record in a smaller and less competitive league (in a country that was in one of their biggest economic crisis), that was the context... like in the same 2012.

    Cristiano Ronaldo scored 0.91 non-PK Goals per 90 minutes in La Liga 2011/2, Benzema scored 0.84 non-PK Goals, Higuain scored 1.16!! Attacking-Mids Forwards like Di Maria had 0.95 assists per 90 in that league!!!
    So, if Cristiano would scored 150 Goals in the Pelé's time, what about Higuain? 240? Benzema? 180? Di Maria, 160 assists?

    Again in 11/12 in the UCL,
    Benzema scored 0.83 non-PK Goals per 90 minutes, Cristiano Ronaldo, 0.77!!! Benzema also had 0.59 assists per 90, Cristiano only 0.29. Again outscored.

    In his magical 2012, he was outscored by all the other teammates forwards
    with minutes: Benzema, Higuaín and Di Maria.

    In the Euro 2012, he joined the topscorer ranking of the tournament (only 3 goals) with the ones of Alan Dzagoev, Mario Balotelli etc. What about his whoscored rating: 7.50 (nothing more than ordinary if you ask me)

    What legendary has this season of Cristiano Ronaldo that I don't know? Great performances vs shit Atlético de Madrid? Great performance vs minnor Osasuna? IMO nothing.

    He just played in a machine team, even better than Di Stefano's Real Madrid. You teleport Pelé for this 2012 Real Madrid and he would score comfortably the same average of goals he had in his peak playing in the Campeonato Paulista, even more I would say, at least 1.5 non-PK Goals per 90.
    Teleport Pelé to Portugal NT and Portugal would have three Euro for now and probably at least one world cup.
    Teleport Pelé to Di Stefano's Real Madrid and you know...


    It is unfair comparing for example the superteam Cristiano Ronaldo played and in what context with R9 also... Cristiano Ronaldo record of goals (50 in 61 matches, including some 20 PK) comes in a period where there are almost no hard fouls or hard tackles, no individual marking, where the Italian league is no more than the fourth European league, closer to the fifth than to the third... and that playing in a superteam that scored more goals before he arrives. Nobody is watching the Italian league now. That is the context.

    Cristiano Ronaldo in that Internazionale would scored 15 goals if he was marked as R9. R9 was more fouled in one season in Italy than Cristiano Ronaldo was in the last five years.

    R9 pass in the stats comparison, but also in impact and eye-test.

    Barcelona Goles
    1995/1996: 72 en 42 (1.71)
    1996/1997 con Nazario: 93 en 37 (2.51)
    1996/1997 sin Nazario: 9 en 5 (1.8)
    1997/1998 (con Rivaldo IN): 78 en 38 (2.05)

    En el Madrid sus tres primeras temporadas han sido honestas 68 Goles (66 Goles + 2 Penaltys) y 16 Asistencias en 7806 minutos (= 86.73 partidos de 90 minutos).

    23 Goles (22 Goles +1 de penalty) y 5 asistencias es una media decente para un delantero jugando en aquella época, cuando jugaba en liga praticamente daba un gol (sin ser de penalty o asistencia) cada partido.

    Real Madrid Goles (2002/3 - 2004/5 liga)
    Real Madrid con Ronaldo 200 Goles en 97 Partidos (2.06)
    Real Madrid sin Ronaldo 29 Goles en 17 Partidos (1.71)

    What about CR7 in La Liga? Do you know Real Madrid records and his records? Or Real Madrid just scored almost 3 goals without him as average?

    I tell you why Cristiano would never score 150 or even 30 goals in the Campeonato Paulista, first because if Cristiano would play for Santos, Pelé would outscoring him directly if he wanted, Toninho Guerreiro the same (just like Higuain in La Liga, look at 2009-10 and 2011-12 non-pk goals per 90), Coutinho and Pepe probably would scored the same amount.... If he played for Palmeiras, then he would score much less than what he scored for Real Madrid against Spanish farmers. Altafini scored more goals in the Italian league while in his peak than he ever scored at Palmeiras by large margin.
    If Cristiano Ronaldo played for São Paulo or Corinthians, then he wouldn't even be remembered.
    This is how things work.

    Probably Salah on equal terms would score the same number of goals as he or even more. In his more poacher version, Higuaín could too, Suarez, Aguero, Lewa etc.

    In mind that Higuain scored 1.16 non-Penalty goals per 90 in La Liga and 1 in the Italian Serie A (Cristiano Ronaldo scored 1.10 in 14/15 and 0.59 this season), so the highs of Higuain in terms of scoring goals are surely higher than Cristiano Ronaldo highs.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Salah = 41.37%
    Cristiano = 38.08% / Rooney = 37.97%
    Mané = 33%




    [​IMG]

    The EPL from 2000 until now is the Italian Serie A from 80s and 90s. ;) La Liga peaked in 2000-2006. Nobody cares if Cristiano Ronaldo had a great performance vs Osasuna, Girona, Almeria or Rayo Vallecano. People care about EPL and the players from there.

     
  5. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Osasuna > Watford
     
  6. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Cristiano Ronaldo has not improved at all from his best form in the last three seasons for United and arguably after 2010/2011 he worsened by the overall impact and level of play. Watch the old games or at least comps (that not be enough to make conclusions, but still better than nothing).

    The real peak of Cristiano Ronaldo is terms of impact on the team was from 2006/7 to 2010/11. That is the best Cristiano Ronaldo, the most capable to winning and change the matches by himself.
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #383 carlito86, Feb 8, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
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  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  9. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #385 carlito86, Mar 2, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  10. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
  11. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    #387 Tropeiro, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
    What about pick the highest peak of each player? Three-year peak. For Club and NT.

    For example:

    Ronaldinho's 03/04, 04/05 and 05/06
    R9 (when healthy) 96/97, 97/98 and 98/99
    Neymar 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18
    Rivaldo 96/97, 97/98 and 98/99
    Kaka 04/05, 05/06 and 06/07
    Romário 91/92, 92/93 and 93/94

    Other examples:
    Henry 02/03, 03/04 and 04/05
    Cristiano Ronaldo 09/10, 10/11 and 11/12
    Messi's 10/11, 11/12, 12/13
    Lewandowski 18/19, 19/20, 20/21
    Suarez 13/14, 14/15, 15/16
    Baggio 91/92 (?), 92/93, 93/94
    Robben 12/13, 13/14 and 14/15
    Salah 17/18, 18/19 and 19/20
    Zidane 00/01, 01/02 and 02/03
    Figo 98/99, 99/00, 00/01

    etc etc?

    Attacking Mids/Wingers and CFs. Can we point something?
     
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  12. Gregoire1

    Gregoire1 Member

    Dec 4, 2020
    Top-5
    1. Messi
    2. R9
    3. Ronaldinho
    4. Zidane
    5. Neymar
     
  13. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #389 carlito86, Aug 2, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    Peak Cristiano Ronaldo=
    Peak Eden hazard+ peak Marco van basten

    Cristiano Ronaldo la liga 2009/10
    26 goals(4 penalties)+10 assists in 2465 league mins
    6 match winning goals
    1.31 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...sdaten/spieler/8198/saison/2009/wettbewerb/CL


    Van basten Serie A 1991/92
    25 goals(9 penalties)+11 assists in 2665 league mins
    7 match winning goals
    1.21 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/serie-a/gamewinners/wettbewerb/IT1/plus/?saison_id=1991




    +


    Eden hazard PL 2014/15

    181 dribbles completed in 3379 league minutes
    4.82 dribbles completed per 90

    113 fouls won
    3.01 fouls won per 90


    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/33404/History/Eden-Hazard

    Cristiano Ronaldo la liga 2009/10

    133 dribbles completed in 2465 league mins
    4.87 dribbles completed per 90


    94 fouls won(arguably even more since there are holes in the data if you check things like dispossessions,bad touches etc)
    3.44 fouls won per 90
    https://www.whoscored.com/Players/5583/History/Cristiano-Ronaldo
     
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  14. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #390 carlito86, Aug 2, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    From the names you mentioned( and adding some more)



    Best 3 season peak IMO

    End product/talent/consistency


    1.)Lionel Messi
    10/11, 11/12, 12/13



    2.)Cristiano Ronaldo
    09/10, 10/11, 11/12



    3.)Ronaldo
    95/96, 96/97, 97/98

    His last season for PSV was way stronger than 98/99 IMO even the European performances were better


    Overall a Very consistent league performer and MVP in Olympics 1996,Copa 1997 and WC 1998

    All this as a prodigy(19 to 21 years old)



    4.)Van basten
    85/86, 86/87, 87/88

    (The last season requires a major boost from Euro 88 but its just about enough)

    This version of him was the most capable European 9 i ever saw at creating his own goalscoring opportunities (since Eusebio at least)


    5.)Rivaldo
    96/97, 97/98, 98/99



    On par or at least VERY close to R9 in talent (very arguably also CR7 aswell)
    what separates them is mentality (and longevity in the case of the Portuguese)


    6.)Neymar
    15/16, 16/17 ,17/18


    7.)Xavi
    08/09, 09/10, 10/11


    8.)Thierry Henry
    02/03 , 03/04 , 04/05


    9.)Ronaldinho
    03/04, 04/05 , 05/06


    10.)Roberto baggio
    91/92, 92/93 , 93/94


    11.)Zidane
    00/01 , 01/02 , 02/03

    12.)Romario
    91/92, 92/93, 93/94

    13.)Arjen Robben
    12/13 , 13/14 , 14/15


    14.)Luis Figo
    99/00 , 00/01 , 01/02


    15.)Luis Suarez
    13/14, 14/15 ,15/16


    16.)zlatan ibrahimovic
    07/08, 08/09 , 09/10


    17.)Ricardo Kaka
    05/06 , 06/07 , 07/08


    18.)Dennis bergkamp
    90/91 , 91/92 , 92/93

    19.)Gabriel batistuta
    97/98, 98/99 ,99/00

    20.)Alessandro del piero
    95/96 , 96/97 , 97/98


    21.)Andriy shevchenco
    98/99, 99/00 , 00/01


    22.)Andres iniesta
    10/11 , 11/12 , 12/13


    23.)Francesco Totti
    00/01 , 01/02 , 02/03

    24.)Pavel nedved
    00/01 , 01/02 , 02/03

    25.)Eric cantona
    92/93 , 93/94, 94/95

    26.)David Beckham
    97/98, 98/99 , 99/00

    27.)Alexis sanchez
    14/15, 15/16, 16/17

    28.)Kevin de bryune
    17/18, 18/19 , 19/20

    29.)Ruud van nistelrooy
    01/02, 02/03 , 03/04

    30.)Eden hazard
    16/17, 17/18, 18/19
     
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  15. Robbenfan

    Robbenfan New Member

    Bayern München
    France
    Jun 10, 2021
    My estimate (3 year peak)

    durability/Base on club performance and NT performance (since 1960s)


    Top 3
    Maradona (84/85~86/87)
    Messi(10/11~12/13)
    Pele(61~63)

    4.
    Johan cruyff(1971/1972~1973/1974)

    5
    Platini ( 8283~8485)
    Zico (1979~1981)
    Eusebio( 6465~6667)
    Ronaldo(96/97~98/99)

    9
    Cristiano ronaldo (1011~1213)


    10
    Franz beckenbauer(1971/1972~1973/1974)


    Tier1

    MVB (8697~8889)
    Gerd muller(1971/1972~1973/1974)
    George best (66/67~68/69)

    Tier2

    Ronaldinho (03/04~05/06)
    KHR(79/80~81/82)
    Gunter nezter(1970/1971~1972/1973)
    Rudd gullit( 86/87~88/89)



    Tier3

    Luis suarez(1314~1516)
    Xavi(08/09~10/11)
    Lothar matthaus (88/89~90/91)
    Romario(91/92~93/94)
    Baggio(91/92~93/94)
    Neymar(16/17~18/19)
    Luis figo( 98/99~00/01)
    Thiery Henry (02/03~04/05)
    Zidane(00/01~02/03)
    Rivaldo(98/99~00/01)
    Uwe seeler(60/61~62/63)
    Bobby Charlton(65/66~67/68)


    Tier4

    Robert Lewandowski (18/19~20/21)
    Robben(12/13~1415)
    Frank ribery(11/12~1314)
    Iniesta(10/11~12/13)
    Kevin keegan(76/77~78/79)
    Kaka (04/05~06/07)
     
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    My attempt might be this, if splitting it into last 25 seasons (as per thread title but moving it forwards two years, which is probably convenient too in terms of players on the borderline now moving into the previous 'rest of history' category, especially when specifying a 3 season peak) and separately for 1995/96 and before....even though I'm not sure the last 2 seasons change much....

    Of course some would be placed higher up on a shorter peak form or peak version, and some would be placed higher based on longevity. There will be cases where the best version of the player and/or best season might be outside the 3 seasons chosen, so I'll try to mention those. The choice of 3 seasons is pretty tricky too sometimes I think - if anything I wonder about going one season earlier for Messi, Zidane and Figo for example as a comparable option, though probably not two seasons earlier all things considered.

    Last 25 seasons:
    Tier 1 - Lionel Messi (10/11, 11/12, 12/13 *peak version and maybe peak season more like 14/15?)
    Tier 2 - Ronaldo (96/97, 97/98, 98/99), C.Ronaldo (11/12, 12/13, 13/14), Zinedine Zidane (00/01, 01/02, 02/03 *peak version and maybe even peak season arguably 97/98?), Ronaldinho (03/04, 04/05, 05/06)
    Tier 3 - Luis Figo (98/99, 99/00, 00/01 *wouldn't rule out peak version being as of 96/97 necessarily, though seems a stretch for peak season overall), Thierry Henry (03/04, 04/05, 05/06 - another one where I could go a season earlier for the start), Dennis Bergkamp (96/97, 97/98, 98/99)
    Tier 4 - Andriy Shevchenko (98/99, 99/00, 00/01 - possibly another one to consider starting one season earlier also, with 97/98, while there could be suggestions for an alternative starting in 03/04 even I guess), Kaka (03/04, 04/05, 05/06 - this is difficult as leaves out 06/07 which must be an option for peak version and even peak season primarily because of the CL, but week to week in Serie A I believe he shined more in 03/04 and he did well enough overall maybe too), Rivaldo (96/97, 97/98, 98/99), Xavi (09/09, 09/10, 10/11)
    Tier 5 - Raul (98/99, 99/00, 00/01), David Beckham (98/99, 99/00, 00/01), Pavel Nedved (00/01, 01/02, 02/03), Patrick Vieira (01/02, 02/03, 03/04), Andres Iniesta (08/09, 09/10, 10/11)
    Tier 6 - Alessandro Nesta (02/03, 03/04, 04/05), Cafu (99/00, 00/01, 01/02), Francesco Totti (99/00, 00/01, 01/02), Neymar (15/16, 16/17, 17/18),Rui Costa (98/99, 99/00, 00/01)
    Tier 7 - Robert Pires (01/02, 02/03, 03/04 - it'd be more satisfactory if possible to substitute in some of 00/01 in which he'd started to play really well, for the period he was injured and the start of his comeback during some of 01/02 and 02/03), Arjen Robben (12/13, 13/14, 14/15), Fernando Redondo (97/98, 98/99, 99/00, but 3 different earlier seasons could have been an alternative maybe?), Andrea Pirlo (03/04, 05/06, 05/06 *might be argued peak version and/or peak season in 11/12?), Samuel Eto'o (04/05, 05/06, 06/07), Ruud van Nistelrooy (01/02, 02/03, 03/04), Eden Hazard (16/17, 17/18, 18/19), Yaya Toure (11/12, 12/13, 13/14)

    I'll leave it there at 30 players, and maybe try 70 for the 'rest of football history' version later on. A few players would lose out I suppose still due to the cut-off. Alessandro Del Piero with the already suggested 95/96 to 97/98, and Brian Laudrup with 94/95 to 96/97 come to mind. Batistuta and Rui Costa are more like cases where they cross the cut-off generally speaking, but I think Batistuta will be in the other list, and Rui Costa still made this one (and maybe even can make the other one as I do think I might have Bergkamp in again to reflect his earlier version...even though I'm not going with two separate periods for any players within a single list - I felt Roberto Baggio couldn't really make this one above for 3 whole consecutive seasons anyway). Davor Suker maybe too actually (same years as B.Laudrup might fit best in theory).
     
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  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I don't think I will put Bergkamp in the other one too actually, as it would be a bit inconsistent to do it (and then aside from Rui Costa, there'd probably be others I could be tempted to do the same with, like Redondo maybe, or Figo).

    I think his Ajax seasons before he went to Inter (factoring in Euro 92) would be an alternative overall though, so he could be in either list reasonably I guess. Maybe I'd think of him as tier 3, bordering tier 4, in the list above, as the 3rd season overall lacks a bit in consistency I think (and if 95/96 had been available I could have been a bit undecided, like with several other players as mentioned, whether to start one season earlier for him too potentially).
     
  18. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #394 carlito86, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    Most goals+assists per 90 in a single calendar year

    Competitions included
    Top 5 Leagues+CL+Europa league

    Critieria:
    Minimum minutes should be equivalent to 30~matches played

    Lionel Messi 2012
    72 goals+23 assists
    4379 minutes played
    1.95 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spi...usrichtung=alle&spielerposition_id=alle&art=2

    Cristiano Ronaldo 2014
    51 goals+23 assists
    3445 minutes played
    1.94 goals+assists per 90
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spi...alle&land_id=0&compFilter=top5withClEl&plus=1


    Cristiano Ronaldo 2013
    53 goals+16 assists
    3648 minutes played
    1.70 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel messi 2018
    43 goals+20 assists
    3353 minutes played
    1.69 goals+assists per 90


    Cristiano Ronaldo 2011
    48 goals+19 assists
    3711 minutes played
    1.62 goals+assists per 90

    Kylian Mbappe 2019
    37 goals+12 assists
    2720 minutes played
    1.62 goals+assists per 90

    Robert lewandowski 2020
    40 goals+15 assists
    3057 minutes played
    1.62 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel Messi 2010
    54 goals+19 assists
    4084 minutes played
    1.61 goals+assists per 90

    Luis Suarez 2016
    42 goals+24 assists
    3787 minutes played
    1.57 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel Messi 2016
    45 goals+20 assists
    3768 minutes played
    1.55 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel messi 2015
    39 goals+20 assists
    3627 minutes played
    1.51 goals+assists per 90

    Luis Suarez 2013
    31 goals+14 assists
    2648 minutes played
    1.51 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel Messi 2011
    43 goals+25 assists
    4060 minutes played
    1.50 goals+assists per 90

    Lionel Messi 2019
    42 goals+14 assists
    3488 minutes played
    1.44 goals+assists per 90

    Harry kane 2017
    45 goals+9 assists
    3674 minutes played
    1.32 goals+assists per 90

    Ciro immobile 2020
    33 goals+13 assists
    3131 minutes played
    1.32 goals+assists per 90

    Zlatan ibrahimovic 2012
    38 goals+19 assists
    3979 minutes played
    1.29 goals+assists per 90

    Cristiano Ronaldo 2012
    53 goals+11 assists
    4357 minutes played
    1.28 goals+assists per 90

    Thierry Henry 2003
    29 goals+28 assists
    4046 minutes played
    1.27 goals+assists per 90

    Zlatan ibrahimovic 2016
    40 goals+13 assists
    3766 minutes played
    1.27 goals+assists per 90
     
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  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #395 PDG1978, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    So trying 30 players also (not 70 I decided!) for the previous, let's say 50 years (I know that including some players from before would be possible on the basis of some great research on this forum for example, as well as general reputation and accolades...but it's difficult, and I'm not sure whether I'd be putting any top 30 in theory anyway)

    Tier 1 - Pele (1961, 1962, 1963 - could be tempted to move it later with priority on international performances in full competitive games and at least prestige friendlies for the NT, but it seems like he was really in his best phase in 1961 already)

    Tier 2 - Johan Cruyff (71/72, 72/73, 73/74), Diego Maradona (84/85, 85/86, 86/87), Alfredo Di Stefano (55/56, 56/57, 57/58), Michel Platini (81/82, 82/83, 83/84 - as with Pele, going with an earlier season of less prominence in international terms because it seems like the form may have been better than in 84/85 to me in general - maybe it's also a call like I made for Kaka in that respect albeit a bit different and also involving a different league of course)

    Tier 3 - George Best (67/68, 68/69, 69/70), Marco van Basten (87/88, 88/89, 89/90 - I've gone the opposite way on this one as compared to Pele/Platini, but am a bit uncertain and if not for attaching Euro 88 to 87/88 maybe even 3 Ajax seasons would be an option I'd consider as it seems a valid idea anyway based on Ajax footage/goals, albeit the leagues he played in were not very comparable to each other...but anyway for what he did overall in the European Cup in particular, as well as Euro 88, I've gone this way), Franz Beckenbauer (71/72, 72/73, 73/74)

    Tier 4 - Eusebio (63/64, 64/65, 65/66), Ferenc Puskas (1951, 1952, 1953?), Zico (1979, 1980, 1981), Bobby Charlton (65/66, 66/67, 67/68), Gerd Muller (71/72, 72/73, 73/74)

    Tier 5 - Michael Laudrup (90/91, 91/92, 92/93 - could consider 93/94 instead of 90/91 I think), Ruud Gullit (85/86, 86/87, 87/88), Franco Baresi (87/88, 88/89, 89/90), Garrincha (1960, 1961, 1962), Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (80/81, 81/82, 82/83 - maybe 79/80 instead of 82/83), Lothar Matthaus (87/88, 88/89, 89/90 - possibly 90/91 instead of 87/88), Gianni Rivera (66/67, 67/68, 68/69 - possibly 69/70 instead of 66/67), Roberto Baggio (91/92, 92/93, 93/94), Romario (91/92, 92/93, 93/94)

    Tier 6 - Kenny Dalglish (either 77/78, 78/79, 79/80 or 81/82, 82/83, 83/84 I'd think), Jurgen Klinsmann (93/94, 94/95, 95/96), Dejan Savicevic (93/94, 94/95, 95/96), George Weah (93/94, 94/95, 95/96), Dragan Dzajic (67/68, 68/69, 69/70), Johan Neeskens (71/72, 72/73, 73/74), Paolo Maldini (93/94, 94/95, 95/96 - I'm kind of wondering about going at least partially earlier but i think 95/96 was a very good season in general for him), Mario Kempes (76/77, 77/78, 78/79 although the last of those seasons was a bit mixed I think so the 1978 World Cup just about squeezes him in I reckon).

    So with reducing it to 30 names I didn't put Batistuta there in the end. He'd have probably been another one of the ones with 93/94, 94/95 and 95/96 as the choices (and there could be more; possibly Sammer?, probably Litmanen, Shearer too I think...not to say those names would be especially close to my tier 6 necessarily).

    Those tiers aren't really meant to correspond to the ones for the last 25 years necessarily, or match up with them. I was just splitting each group into comparable options in my estimation....
     
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  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #396 PDG1978, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    I do think Litmanen could well have been making tier 7 though to be fair, as that was really a (pretty consistent) purple patch for him.

    I guess Batistuta would have too.

    Gheorghe Hagi with all things considered 91/92, 92/93 and 93/94 being creditable enough probably (or 86/87, 87/88, 88/89?), would likely have been another.

    Dragan Stojkovic would possibly have been among the names too I'm thinking, probably with 87/88, 88/89 and 89/90.
     
  21. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @PDG1978
    Van basten 1987/88 to 1989/90
    1 time European championship top scorer
    1 time European cup top scorer
    1 time Serie A top scorer

    Vs

    Eusebio 1965/66 to 1967/68
    1 time World cup top scorer
    2× European cup top scorer
    2×Portuguese league top scorer
     
  22. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, certainly it can be a close call in my mind between two adjacent groups anyway (please no arguments lol, as I did it the way you'd like anyway, but in some ways it's not so different to Henry vis a vis C.Ronaldo in the other list, and I don't think team success should dictate things but in both cases the player in the higher group probably contributed decisively overall to the greater continental success ultimately even though the other player certainly had his moments in continental competition for example, and although for me Eusebio could be deemed best player of WC66 too, I'd be more clear on Van Basten as best player of Euro 88).

    In some ways using the younger Van Basten would make the league level comparisons in terms of goalscoring a bit easier, as the Portuguese league of the 60s was obviously one in which a lot of goals could be scored, and far away from 1980s Serie A in that respect.

    I think in terms of technique Van Basten is ahead for me too, although that's not necessarily decisive in a 3 year comparison; I think I just see his best form as a bit more polished and his all-round game a bit more complete, which comes through in the best performances - but again not to put the outcomes of Benfica vs Manchester United and AC Milan vs Real Madrid for example purely down to that obviously.

    I think Eusebio in 1964 and 1965 was really doing well at the continental and international level too, but yeah his goals tally was huge in 67/68, and he scored a few impressive/important ones such as vs Sporting Lisbon in 66/67 too I know.

    On some issues I realise I can seem to change my mind anyway, with these tight calls and estimations. I previously just about edged Platini ahead of Maradona for 84/85 (all competitions), which could seem inconsistent with having 81/82 for Platini rather than 84/85 for example. Or for the whole 1966/67 to 1969/70 period I made an attempt with Dzajic and Rivera close, both towards the top, but Dzajic ahead, and maybe that seems a bit inconsistent with today's posts too! I guess it displays uncertainty about these things, which is inevitable though.
     
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  23. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #399 carlito86, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021

    7 major top scorer titles in 3 seasons


    Pele 1960 to 1962
    3× campeonato paulista top scorer
    3×campeonato brasileiro top scorer
    1×intercontinental cup top scorer

    Lionel Messi 2009/10 to 2011/12
    2× la liga top scorer
    3× champions league top scorer
    1× Fifa club world cup top scorer
    1× Uefa super cup top scorer

    6 major top scorer titles in 3 seasons

    Cristiano Ronaldo 2012/13 to 2014/15
    2× la liga top scorer
    3× champion's league top scorer
    1×Uefa super cup top scorer





    5 major top scorer titles in 3 seasons

    Eusebio 1965/66 to 1967/68
    1× world cup top scorer
    2×European cup top scorer
    2× Portuguese league top scorer

    Gerd muller 1972/73 to 1974/75
    2× Bundesliga top scorer
    3× European cup top scorer

    Lionel Messi 2018/19 to 2020/21
    3× la liga top scorer
    1× CL top scorer
    1× Copa America top scorer

    Cristiano Ronaldo 2015/16 to 2017/18
    3× champions league top scorer
    2× Fifa club world cup top scorer

    4 major top scorer titles in 3 consecutive seasons


    Michel platini 1982/83 to 1984/85
    1× European championship top scorer
    3× Serie A top scorer

    Alfredo di stefano 1956/57 to 1958/59
    3× la liga top scorer
    1× European cup top scorer

    Ferenc puskas 1959/60 to 1961/62
    3× la liga top scorer
    1× European cup top scorer


    Robert lewandowski 2018/19 to 2020/21
    3× Bundesliga top scorer
    1×CL top scorer


    Marco van basten 1984/85 to 1986/87
    3× Eredivisie top scorer
    1× Uefa cup winners cup top scorer



    3 major top scorer titles in 3 seasons
    Sandor kocsis 1952 to 1954
    1× world cup top scorer
    2× Hungarian league top scorer
    (Lost top scorer to ferenc puskas in 1953 by a margin of 3 goals)

    Van basten 1987/88 to 1989/90
    1× European championship top scorer
    1×European cup top scorer
    1×Serie A top scorer

    Ronaldo nazario 96/97 to 98/99
    1x Copa America top scorer
    1×la liga top scorer
    1×cup winners cup top scorer

    Ruud van nistelrooy 2001/02 to 2003/04
    1× PL top scorer
    2× champions league top scorer

    Thierry Henry 03/04 to 05/06
    3× PL top scorer

    Hugo Sanchez 86/87,88/89,89/90
    3× la liga top scorer

    Luis Suarez 2013/14 to 2015/16
    1× PL top scorer
    1× la liga top scorer
    1× Fifa club world cup top scorer
     
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  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Hmm, this makes it a hat-trick of potential inconsistency by me haha (I started to think about Klinsmann vs Litmanen for 93/94, 94/95 and 95/96 knowing I'd given Litmanen the edge over the latter two, because of apparently dubious/variable Bundesliga form by Klinsmann in 95/96 in essence):
    So potentially that's a switch around re: tier 6 of the pre 96/97 list I tried earlier. Having said that I guess Klinsmann wouldn't be too far away for 93/94 (although it does seem it wasn't a particularly great club season for him, though he did very well in the World Cup and that was probably in mind a bit), as that list wouldn't be set in stone (having removed Brolin from it for Gullit, I wouldn't be sure I wouldn't be of a mind to put him back in for fellow Swede Thern for example).

    Maybe I was sticking relatively close to how I'd call things on peak version (as opposed to extended peak period) and/or over career (weighting significant things including World Cup performances highly potentially), and that's why I ended up with Rivera before Dzajic, and Klinsmann before Litmanen earlier.

    On another day maybe I'd have typed Michael Laudrup's name in tier 4 and Gerd Muller's in tier 5 or something for example (although maybe I deliberately held myself back from doing that today even though it could be an over-correction on possible Laudrup bias and/or too much of an effort not to under-rate Muller!), so it's maybe not a definitive attempt at my call so much as a vague estimate.
     

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