Cole had 18 non penalty goals in 44 CL appearances Rooney had 26 non penalty goals in 84 CL appearances 6 of gerrards 21 CL goals were penalties Cole has a very respectable record with just beneath 0.5 non penalty goals in the CL Aguero 29 non pen goals in 70 CL appearences https://www.transfermarkt.com/sergi...plus/0?saison_id=ges&wettbewerb_id=CL#subnavi This is the guy who will be overtaking coles PL record by latest next season
Yeah, it could have been 75 matches actually, instead of 44, if he had played in all Manchester United games, but he missed a large number or was not used. That begs the question why that is. Not just injuries I think. Rooney of course does have his goals in CL semi finals and finals, and he is actually the only English player so far above 25 CL goals. I saw 'we' have 5 players so far above 25 Champions League goals. Van Persie, Makaay, Kluivert, Robben, Van Nistelrooij. With the exception of Robben (110 games), all did it in (slightly) fewer games than Rooney's 85 matches as well. Many of them could score against the big club teams (e.g. RvP against peak Barca, strike rate against the 'big six' for relatively modest attacks) and against the big national teams too on a quasi-regular base. Germany has two so far (T. Muller on 44 and Mario Gomez on 26), Spain two (Raul and Morientes), France three (Benzema, Henry, Trezeguet), Italy two (Inzaghi, Del Piero), Portugal one (Cristiano) to name some of the remaining European countries. Brazil is on three (Neymar, Kaka, Rivaldo), Argentina on two above that mark (Messi, Aguero), Uruguay one (Cavani, with Suarez one goal short)
Obviously I'm very biased, but I don't think Cole was even as good as Ian Wright, who was very good for us despite playing for "boring boring Arsenal". He had the opposite reputation to Cole of making the most of the limited scoring opportunities he was presented each match. If nothing else, he was a much more natural finisher than Cole, and I'd argue, more athletic as well. Andy Cole only has that one season in 93-94, and never again a 20+ league goals or 30+ all comps goals season. Ian Wright had 3 of the former and 4 of the latter in the 90s. In 6 of the 7 seasons with us, he had 20+ goals, thanks to his very good record in both domestic cups and European tournaments, including in 1994-1995 when he literally scored in every single Cup Winners Cup match for us, except the final, which we lost in extra-time to Zaragoza.
You could also look at footage 1092712638851805184 is not a valid tweet id This one is pure genius RETRO GOAL: It’s Boxing Day 1997 and Andy Cole is possessed by the Ghost of Cantona Past vs Everton.pic.twitter.com/MsJazTX2m0— A Funny Old Game (@sid_lambert) December 26, 2018 Cole has games with 5 open play goals in 1 match(Ipswich town) Here with a hattrick+1 great backheel assist vs Leicester city Today in 1993Newcastle United 7 Leicester City 1 Half time: 6-0Newcastle United lift the Football League Division 1 trophyAndy Cole 5’, 40’, 66’Rob Lee 13’ David Kelly 28’, 34’, 45’#NUFC https://t.co/WWFxoMp9FP— NUFCThreatLevel (@NUFCThreatLevel) May 9, 2020 Assist at 0:14 Ian Wright never scored open play goals+assists in a CL QF to final round Ian Wright never scored 25 open play goals in a single PL season Let alone 33(1993/94) Poetgooner says Well that's all his has over wright Well Ian Wright doesn't have that and if he did he'd probably say he was better as shearer Ian Wright never scored 3 bicycle kicks in 4 months (1999/00) One of the 3 An average finisher can do that? Andy Cole was better at creating his own goalscoring opportunities Has more total goals More non penalty goals More strict assists More wide assists More league titles More champions league titles They literally played in the same era Its really a lopsided comparison in favour of Cole One fun fact about Andy cole 93/94: He is the only player to finish top scorer and top assister in the same season Thierry Henry 02/03 got close but was outscored by Ruud van nistelrooy
Well, he never even played in a European Cup or UCL campaign. Of course I wouldn't say Wright was better than Shearer, even if he had a league season like 93/94 Cole. Shearer goal-scoring prowess in the EPL is unmatched. I'm not particularly interested in beautiful goals when it comes to rating goalscorers. It's the consistency in their goalscoring that surely matters most. I don't see how it's really lopsided in favour of Cole. First of all, the team titles don't matter here at all. Totals For a start, Wright has more total goals in less games than Cole. Cole has 289 goals in 646 games while Wright had 324 goals in 626 games. I don't know about non-penalty goals or assists though, as I don't have the stats, so I'll take your word for it. I don't remember now how well earned Cole's reputation as a wasteful finisher was, as I don't think we have the stats from back then. League In the six full seasons Cole spent at Man Utd (95-96 to 00-01) Man Utd was the league top scoring team every year. Cole never even finished top 3. Ian Wright was playing for a team that wasn't even a top 3 scoring team in the league and still scored more goals than Cole. There were a couple seasons before Wenger arrived where we scored sub-50 goals in a league campaign. We were called "boring boring Arsenal" for reason. A sad sad reason, and despite some of the silverware, Wright and maybe Merson aside, we were crap going forward and even worse to watch, unless you enjoy watching the Graham's back-5 defend. Domestic Cups In the domestic cups, it's not even close. Andy Cole scored 2 goals in 7 games in each of the winning campaign with Man Utd (95-96 and 98-99). He did not score in either finals. His record in the FA Cup was 9 goals in 21 games. He wasn't really used in the League Cup, with just 2 games in his entire Man Utd career. Ian Wright has a phenomenal record of 29 goals in 29 League Cup games. He also has 12 goals in 16 FA Cup games, including scoring in both final matches in the 92-93 final, where he also finished as the top scorer with 10 goals in 7 games. European tournaments In 1999, Cole scored 5 goals in Man Utd's UCL victory campaign, but 3 of those goals were in the group stage and only one in the knockout. Like I already said, in 94-95, Ian Wright scored in literally every single one of our Cup Winners Cup matches, except in the final. In 93-94, he was suspended from the final against Parma. He still finished joint 2nd top scorer of the tournament. Individual accolades I'm not too sure why Cole wasn't voted into the PFA TotY in 93-94, he won the YPotY, so his sole inclusion was 99-00. Ian Wright has 3 PFA TotY and also a Hall of Fame Inductee, which Cole isn't. Conclusion It is definitely not lopsided in favour of Cole. It's not hard to see why some people rate Wright over Cole.
Yeah if u were watching at the time, Cole was a problem child who often fell out with everyone who had the luxury of playing on the dominant English side wright was better at a lot more facets of the game ps YouTube Andy Cole - phenomenal for a good laugh
Yes sure, the explanation is here - Andy Cole his graph is on the previous page of this thread: The outcome is like +/- in ice hockey or other sports but adjusted for the strength of opposition using least squares regression https://medium.com/@balders93/player-level-massey-ratings-af7fb36e0b82 Naturally they tend to overlap strongly with the GoalImpact thing (of which there are different versions of the algorithm), though this one is less kind to players playing for below elite level teams. There are a some cases like Di Matteo where both measurements strongly conflict. I think this one is actually most informative for players playing on the same team.
Let's talk about some strikers who were actually one of the best in their time but whose numbers look now pedestrian. Gianluca Vialli for example https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianluca_Vialli Was never above 15 non-penalty goals in the league...
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...arer-robson-five-sheffield-wednesday-16911341 This is after his 1997 knee injury which curtailed his prime and arguably changed the trajectory of his career Prime Shearer was prolific,bullish,brilliant in the air,peerless from the spot,great on the volley,ambidextrous,had a powerful shot Had also a great understanding of the game with was not the norm for the strikers of his day Before his 26th birthday Alan shearer had 3 consecutive seasons with 30+ league goals and was a top scorer at the 1996 Euro championships Hands down the best European CF of the first half of the 90s Could arguably even extend that to the entire 90s decade He was the European equivalent of Gabriel batistuta (perhaps marginally even a better baller) Jean pierre Papin was obviously better in Europe But Marseille was also one of the great teams of that era Papin did nothing in Italy Signori 92/93 did in fact by himself score more league goals as van basten+papin combined which brings that point to home Shearer was complete I remember on an episode of football's greatest kevin Keegan saying Alan shearer pre injury and post injury were two completely different players Its a measure of his talent that he was still able to record solid numbers for Newcastle FC often carrying them on his back in the early 2000s
Shearer pre-injury was also a bit of a physical specimen as he was both fast and powerful. Having said that, he was also quite a dirty player who the refs allowed to get away with murder at times.
One striker that is quite underrated is vieiri I remember him having prolific seasons at athletico and a couple of Italian clubs
Andriy Shevchenko at the age of 21/22 in the Champions League:- Hat-trick vs Barcelona.- Goal vs Arsenal.- 3 goals over two legs vs Real Madrid in the quarter-final.- Brace vs Bayern Munich in the semi-final.Nearly carried Dynamo Kiev to a UCL final in 1998/99. Incredible. pic.twitter.com/7hxF5uUKCH— TC (@totalcristiano) April 19, 2020
Goals+assists vs top 6 periodic teams (including penalties) Thierry Henry 03/04 10 goals+1 assist Arsenal FC scored 18 team goals vs the other 5 in the top 6 61% direct involvement Luis Suarez 15/16 11 goals+6 assists Barcelona scored 28 total goals against the other 5 in the top 6 Direct involvement:61% Van basten 1991/92 5 goals + 8 assists Milan scored 23 goals against the other 5 in the top 6 Direct involvement:57% Mohammed Salah 17/18 7 goals +2 assists Liverpool scored 16 goals against the other 5 in the top 6 Direct involvement:56% Ronaldo nazario 1996/97 7 goals+0 assists Barcelona scored 22 goals against the other 5 in the top 6 Directly involvement 32% Would also include Romario but have no accurate wide assist totals https://www.transfermarkt.com/
Ferenc puskas is perhaps one of the only strikers from the 40s to 60s who shouldn't be overly penalised for playing in a high scoring era. I'll go on to demonstrate that even within an era of high scoring strikers puskas was himself an outlier Ferenc puskas in 47/48 at 20 years old recorded all time legendary gpg 50 goals in 32 league appearances At the same time he was carrying his team Kipest 47/48 scored 82 league goals in 32 appearances Puskas 47/48 scored at a rate of almost 1.6 gpg and was involved in 60% of his teams goals This shouldn't be possible https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947–48_Nemzeti_Bajnokság_I Let's take a player like Fernando peyroteo Played in roughly the same era Peyroteo is a player who is known to have scored a unprecedented amount of goals in the Portuguese primera division In 1946/47 Peyroteo scored a ridiculous 46 league goals in 17 matches But then sporting lisbon 46/47 scored A mamouth 123 goals in 26 league matches So in effect peyroteo was merely involved in 37% of goals scored by his team Let's take arsenio erico The legendary Argentine forward peaked in 1938 scoring for independiente 43 league goals in only 30 appearences Independiente scored 115 goals in 32 matches So in effect Erico was involved in 37% of his teams goals Identical to peyroteo Now Let's take ferenc deak who was not only a contemporary but played in the same league and the same time as ferenc puskas Playing for Szentlőrinci AC in 1945/46 he peaked with 66 goals in 34 league matches In 1948/49 playing for Ferencváros TC he practically matched this with 59 goals in 30 league matches Now adjusting his goals for team edge 1945/46 Szentlőrinci AC scored 146 goals in 44 matches Ferenc deaks goals accounted for 45% of his teams goals Elite territory but still nowhere near prime ferenc puskas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945–46_Nemzeti_Bajnokság_I In 1948/49 now playing for Ferencváros TC his team Scored 140 goals in 30 appearances Ferenc deaks 59 goals now accounted for 42% of his teams goals https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferenc_Deák_(football) Elite territory but again still nowhere near prime Ferenc puskas Pele,Messi,Cristiano,gerd Muller,never ever did this Take Pele 1958 He scored an all time paulista record 58 goals in 32 games But Santos 1958 scored 143 paulista goals so Pele was in effect only involved in 40% The only close ones are eusebio 67/68 42 goals in 24 appearances( out of 75 team goals) 56% involvement But then again there are some very questionable players like Hector yazalde who could score 46 league goals there in 73/74( Which shrouds euesbios goal record in doubt Hector yazalde had 2 goals in 10 caps for Argentina Ferenc deak scored 29 goals in 20 games for Hungary http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fdeak-intlg.html Huge difference Puskas was legitimately competing against proven all time legendary scorers in Hungary (deak,kocsis,Gyula Szilágyi even hidegkuti) Eusebio in Portugal definitely was not yet they were almost matching him Yazalde is not nearly a great player The only pre war era player who sniffs this is Dixie dean In the 1927/28 season he scored 60 goals in 27 first division matches Everton scored 103 league goals so he was involved in 58% of his teams goals And now we're just talking about goals Not even assists and teamplay (puskas was not even a CF like dixie dean but one of the most complete forwards of all time) For those who like fourfourtwo ferenc puskas was rated the 2nd greatest playmaker of all time Ahead of Messi,Zico,laudrup and yes even Pele https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/pele-or-puskas-maradona-or-messi-just-who-best-no10-all-time I have even see reports that Puskas was considered the best playmaker of the Hungarian division At the same time he was a 1gpg player Puskas is the only top 10 all timer who is severely underrated You can't have platini,George best or van basten anywhere near this guy https://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/greatest-all-time/soccer-worldsoccer100.htm Its criminal Puskas was elite well over 10 years and his prime significantly better He is The inside forward who scored at a minimum rate of 1 gpg at international level European cup level League level Gerd muller could only do that by being a permanent resident in the penalty area Pele was minimum 1gpg at paulista and copa libertadores level but then dropped to 0.84 at international level Why? Did He played deeper than puskas ? I don't think so Pele doesn't even have the excuse of players beneath him who had way less talented squads Eusebio dropped to 0.64 at international level Cristiano to 0.6 with Portugal Messi dropped to 0.5 with Argentina The fact is Puskas was voted by an expert panel as the greatest goalscorer of the 20th century Kocsis is widely considered a top 50 all timer Look at the gap between first and second Puskas with only 4 caps for Spain compared to di Stefano with 31 caps Now imagine If it was the other way round(number of caps) it would be a landslide vote in favour of Puskas And he is at least in the conversation as one of the greatest number 10s of all time
Was it really that hard to score goals in 1990s serie A? One of the most commonly quoted myths and misconceptions was that the era of the 1990s was distinctly difficult to score in Had R9 played for one of the superteams or top teams he would've scored much more? How many times has this been said on forums and comment sections all over the internet Well lets take a look R9 97/98 scored 19 goals non penalty goals in 32 serie A appearences (2872 minutes) 0.59 non penalty goal per 90 Giuseppe Signori 1992/93 19 non penalty goals in 32 matches 2852 minutes 0.60 non penalty goals per 90 Gabriel batistuta 1998/99 21 non penalty goals in 28 matches 2475 minutes 0.76 non penalty goals per 90 Olivier Bierhoff 1997/98 25 non penalty goals in 32 matches 2836 minutes 0.79 non penalty goals per 90 Abel balboa 1994/95 22 goals in 32 appearances 2757 minutes 0.71 non penalty goals per 90 Abel balboa 1992/93 21 goals in 32 appearances 2854 minutes 0.66 non penalty goals per 90 Ruggiero Rizzitelli 1994/95 19 open play goals in 32 appearences 2737 minutes 0.62 non penalty goals per 90 Enrico Chiesa 1995/96 22 non penalty goals in 27 appearances 2289 minutes 0.86 non penalty goals per 90 Did R9 improve inter Milans attack that much? In 1996/97 inter scored 51 goals in the league In 1997/98 inter Milan scored 62 goals in the league Looks positive Goalscoring had gone up slightly from 2.65 to 2.73 in Serie A and inter Milans 51 league goals in 1996/97 Was the most by any team in Italy inter 1996/97 literally had the most prolific attack in Serie A But at a cost that they conceded 35 goals In 1997/98 (the season R9 had joined) inter had the best defence in Serie A Conceding only 27 goals in the league Inter 1997/98 had improved as a team unit Conceding 8 less league goals then the previous season And scored 11 more league goals than the previous season Ultimately they were left in a identical position seeing as juventus themselves had improved R9 was obviously one of the best scorers of the 90s What made him unique though his style or substance? I think it was more of the former than the latter. 98% of those inter dribbling runs had no end product Literally nothing I mean how can you justify saying R9 almost singlehandedly dragged inter to the title seeing as they were in a identical position the season before he joined Is there any reason not to believe a batistuta or Bierhoff playing for inter 98 wouldve propelled them to the same position Just in the 1990s decade there were 7 seasons in Italy statistically superior to R9 97/98 6 different players were able to score 19 or more non penalty goals in a single Serie A season This is a unbeatable GOAT level season? Inter Milan the best defensive team in the league with one of the most prolific attacks gives R9 carte Blanche Literally "here ronaldo nazario take the ball and work your magic" He repays them with 19 open play goals and 4 league assists 100 athletic/dribbling runs for one solo goal and 2-3 solo assists His creative licence really did not yield spectacular results R9 was not really a back to goal kind of striker he liked to receive/pick up the ball from deep and run with it That was his style Inter Milan played to his strenghts and R9 scored at the same rate as many other strikers in italy In a different tactical setup R9 would probably score less seeing as he was legitimately terrible in the air and wasn't uniquely impressive at working the GK from distance I really just don't see the hype
Robert Lewandowski is now the outright top scorer in all three club competitions he has competed in this season:✓ Bundesliga (34)✓ Champions League (11)✓ DFB-Pokal (5)The world's best centre-forward. pic.twitter.com/UXEogYz4aW— Squawka (@Squawka) July 4, 2020
In the history of football few if any have done this Cristiano,Messi and gerd muller haven't completed the full set Prime Van basten never top scored in the coppa Italia And he never top scored in the European cup in the same season he top scored in serie A Romario 93/94 was outscored in the copa del rey and champions league (and if someone says he was really just concentrating on the world cup he got outscored there too) Suarez 15/16 was outscored in the CL R9 96/97 was outscored in the cup winners cup by robbie fowler and in the copa del rey by diego Klimowicz C.Ronaldo 07/08 top scored in the CL and PL but was outscored in the FA cup In 10/11 he top scored in la liga and the Copa del Rey but was outscored in the champions league In 12/13 he top scored in the champions league but was outscored in the copa del by diego costa and by Messi in la liga I mean its the same in following seasons (wont go through them all) Of course lewandowski isn't competing vs Messi who averaged 40 league goals per season between 09/10 and 12/13 Having said that Robert lewandowski has still as a pure goalscorer put on a season for the ages He is now at least in my estimation a true modern great I think it is possible to say Robert lewandowski 19/20 has been a comparable player to prime Gerd muller 69-74 I really can't imagine Muller at club level was much better and if he was it wasn't sustained Even if lewandowski isnt some kind of generational dribbling wizard he is better as Muller in this regard Could be more of a creative player although i wouldn't be certain of this ( muller lead in bundesliga assists a few times with very high assist totals during his prime seasons particular 1971-72) right now lewandowski is going to really have to do something this champions league A hattrick somewhere in the KO stages wont go amiss If he doesn't the consensus would (rightfully)side with prime gerd muller Gerd muller had at least 3 seasons of that calibre 1971/72 1972/73 1973/74 106 league goals in 101 appearances: Avg 35 league goals per season Bayern munich scored 289 league goals during that time period so gerd muller was involved in 36% of his teams goals In 3 consecutive seasons he won bundesliga top scorer 3x Was champions league top scorer twice Was also on the ballon dor podium twice in 1972 and 1973 Lewandowski scored 34 league goals this season in 31 appearances :1.09 Bayern munich scored 100 goals in the league so lewandowski was involved in 34% Gerd muller had 34 league assists in those 3 seasons Including a mammoth 17 bundesliga assists in 71/72(combined with 40 league goals) overall i feel even if 1972 gerd Muller is a class above lewandowski The rest of his career is perhaps not As a 1 year prime gerd muller 1972 could challenge anyone https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/03/20/how-gerd-mullers-1971-72-season-propelled-him-to-greatness/ Not beat but challenge most certainly To sustain that kind of level is nigh on impossible
Across all matches – friendlies, league, cup, international– 1971-72 saw Müller register a breathtaking 137 goals in 92 appearances >>> Pele 1959 126 goals in 104 matches including 11 goals vs Brazilian military(14 matches) http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html#gmueller Including indoor games gerd muller scored 150 goals in 100 appearences in 1972 https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/03/20/how-gerd-mullers-1971-72-season-propelled-him-to-greatness/ To play 90-100+ games in 1 year is crazy Interestingly romario became more prolific after 30 years old Before and After 30 08/01/1985– 29/01/1996 (19 to 30 years) 327 goals in 463 appearances:0.7 30/01/1996 – 16/11/2007(30 to 41 years) 445 goals in 531 appearances:0.83
Lewa is arguably the best striker of this decade, but any decent striker would score 30+ goals/season playing for Bayern, perhaps not 40 or 50 like Lewa but still. I think this season from Lewa is more comparable with Suarez 15/16 season. Suarez was a better final passer, Lewa a bit better technically and dribbled more players. Both had a plenty of opportunity to score goals. About R9 his 47 Goals in a season (19-20 years old) only was matched in 2009/2010 season by Messi (also 47). After Suarez scored 59 goals, most one-touch goals tho. His 34 goals in 1997/98 season was matched only after 23 years with Eto'o scoring 37 Goals and was a quite figure for Inter goalscorers of the past as well. I still rate R9, Van Basten, Muller and Romário higher than Lewa and Suarez tho.