Historical ranking of Arjen Robben

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by carlito86, Sep 21, 2018.

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Is Arjen Robben a all time great

This poll will close on Sep 21, 2028 at 5:02 PM.
  1. he is a top 3 Dutch player of all time

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. He is one of the greatest wingers of all time

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  3. He had the highest peak this era after messi Ronaldo

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  1. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Underrated in his prime with his percieved flaws over exemplified more than others(1 footedness in particular)
    Ever heard of maradona or rivaldo?

    Not sure how neur 14 was better than kahn 02(is saves vs algeria now the barometer of greatness)
    2014 ballon dor had better candidates than 2002 no doubt about this IMO
    But robben couldnt make the podium

    We know how podium spots can help the historical ranking of players and he was unjustly denied

    Wasnt one of my favourites in england so i will not pretend but he became exactly that post 2013 CL final
    I like backstory too
    it helps that he is my type of player technically and aesthetically

    3rd best prime player of his era IMO
    Maybe/probably a bit lower overall because of his injuries(below xavi 08-12 but thats it)

    Will not entertain suggestions of iniesta/ribery/even neymar for now having more dominant peaks
    With ribery at least we know as a fact he could never beat a fully fit robben to bundesliga player of the
    Year(this should automatically quash any doubts)

    The difference in their class was also reflected by their CL KO stage record where franck ribery was severely lacking
     
  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah, it is nice for him that he scored a goal in his last ever league game, just as he scored goals in his last Champions League game (at a difficult time) and (competitive) national team game.

    Some comments by him:
    https://www.bavarianfootballworks.c...nsfer-2009-cristiano-ronaldo-florentino-perez
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...obben-claims-politics-forced-Real-Madrid.html


    A week ago he said this to 'Algemeen Dagblad'

    "I have played this game against Eintracht Frankfurt three times in my head. I would love to show it one more time. Give everything one more time, as in my last international match with the Orange vs. Sweden. There I said goodbye with two goals. I know: that is now also possible, physically. But yes, I don't make the setup. "

    "And that while he never thought he would stay with Bayern for ten years. ,, No, not initially. Wasn't strange, was it? I had been with Chelsea for three years, two years in Madrid. I remember: I was pretty wary when I came in 2009. From the 'big' Real Madrid to Bayern Munich that was not very successful in Europe at the time. My dream was to win the Champions League once. Realizing that ambition, that didn't look rosy. But there was a development in the ten years that followed. Bayern and I have made a good journey. "

    "Legend, Weltstar, Germans like to talk in such terms. Is meant positive, but I always think: are you talking about a movie star or something? I'm not so special. And certainly not a star. I have done something attractive with my football talent, that's it. I hope fans enjoyed it. Winning titles, winning prizes, that's what you live for and it's important in top sport. But appreciation by the people is ultimately the most valuable and matters the most. "


    "After 2013 we could have reached one or two more CL finals. Then I think first of the period with Pep Guardiola. But at decisive moments we had too many injuries. Take myself: Of the six semi-final matches under him, I missed four. " Under Guardiola, Robben went through a development as a player. ,, He also let me play as number 10. As a deep striker and even in midfield. After I was 30 I saw the game unfolding yet from very different positions. Guardiola said: your career is "finished" and rounded off now with the Champions League cup in your hands, so in the last few years, enjoy yourself. And that pleasure was certainly there under him. "

    [the injury delayed his decision about his future]Arjen Robben is still thinking about his future after Bayern Munich. ,, People sometimes don't believe it when I say I don't know yet. They think: he still keeps it to himself. "

    Robben has offers literally from all over the world. But what does he want? What can he do with his fragile body? ,, I would really like to continue playing. And still somewhere for place 1, because I don't believe I am someone who gets satisfaction from participating in place five or six. I feel that there is still football in my body for a few years, in the sense that my basic fitness is strong. If we have tests this season, I score high values, even though I am 35. But still I have been struggling for another five months with an injury. That is what I don't want anymore. "

    Far away, to China, Japan or the United States, he doesn't see that as an option. Robben hopes in the short term for a "Eureka moment". ,, That you wake up in the morning and feel: now I know what to do. Practically speaking, that would be nice for the family. Really, preferably I had already decided on my future yesterday. "

    https://www.ad.nl/buitenlands-voetb...n-van-arjen-floppen-tot-fussbalgott~aa7fa799/
    https://nos.nl/artikel/2285771-robben-over-toekomst-veiligste-optie-is-stoppen.html
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    @carlito86





    He didn't pick the 10 goals himself but he ordered those as:

    1. vs Dortmund 2013 (CL final)
    2. vs Schalke 2010 (cup semi final extra time)
    3. vs Manchester United 2010 (CL quarter final, winning goal)
    4. vs Dortmund 2013 (cup quarter final, 1-0 winning goal)
    5. vs Barcelona 2013 (CL semi final)
    6. vs Real Madrid 2012 (CL semi final)
    7. vs Fiorentina 2010 (CL round of 16)
    8. vs Wolfsburg 2009 (two goals in first game)
    9. vs Arsenal 2017 (CL round of 16)
    10. vs Leipzig 2017 (injury time winner vs runners-up)
     
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  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    What isnt mentioned enough is arjen Robben is the only player to directly participate in the destruction of both the greatest club team of his era and the greatest international team of his era
    Barcelona 12/13 (100 points in la liga the highest tally in their illustrious history)
    Spain 2014 (the holders of the world cup and European Championship)

    Is this a coincidence
    I don't think so

    There are players who history hasn't treated well because of 1 or few incidents
    What would be the perception of him had he scored those chances vs Spain in 2010

    Instead we see players as Zlatan ibrahimovic,francesco totti ,luis suarez being ranked ahead of his guy (check fourfourtwos top 100 players of all time released in 2017)

    THESE players combined had less champions league KO stage goals than arjen Robben by himself
    That is in almost 50 full club seasons
    Did robben even play 1 full injury free season?

    There are double and sometimes triple standards here
    For example I love Baggio but there is no way in fact absolutely no way he had the career of top 20 all timer

    With 0 international silverware for a NT as italy
    One league title for clubs as inter, milan,juventus
    We can talk all day about how football is a team sport blah blah but their comes a point where the magnifying scope has to placed firmly on the individual and other possibilities have to be explored (for example was he a tactical liability, how many world class seasons did he actually have etc)

    Despite this it is very common to see him at the top end of all time lists
    This isnt the greatest injustice (after all his talent was worthy of this lofty status)

    The biggest double standard is the small issue of his missed pen in WC94
    Had he scored it we'd potentially be talking about a top 10 all timer
    On the basis of a single spot kick
    DOES this sound rational at all

    HE wasn't even worthy to begin with of such a high position for a plethora of reasons but he'd also be ranked much higher for a spot kick
    Some players get a free pass for likeability as Ronaldinho, Baggio, Zidane

    Others aren't so lucky
    Prime CR,rivaldo,prime robben are just recent examples



    In short
    As the commentator on one of your comps said
    Robben is a freaking legend

    in fact a legend of the highest calibre
    To overcome the difficulties he did and reach the heights he did is nothing short of absolutely phenomenal
    If some people struggle to see this that is their loss
     
  6. Tmagic77

    Tmagic77 Member+

    Feb 10, 2003
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The poll options aren't great because all 3 of them are true.
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #57 carlito86, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    @PuckVanHeel
    I've been doing some research and have come across some bayern/robben related threads that state that his prime in fact wasn't during 12-15 but rather during 2009/10

    The fact that the bundesliga was even more underrated during those days can explain why he never received the acclaim he deserved
    There is every reason to believe he was at the level of a ballon dor podium player
    Especially when he was doing things as this

    The bazooka against fiorentina also

    Before pes stats database randomly stopped working I remember seeing his combination of dribbling accuracy and dribbling speed during 2009/10 was the most devastating since Ronaldo 1997/98

    I think maybe robben became a more developed passer with a wider range between 12-15
    The criticism was of him being too selfish in his younger days(with some exceptions as this great assist on a snowy pitch)

    2:07

    As a direct and devastating dribbler with world class end product there is a possibility to be explored he was already a all time level winger during 2009/10
     
  8. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think Robben already was at that level in 2009/10, and that becomes even more clear when acknowledging Robben's underrated form at World Cup 2010, where he was very good or just good against top tier opponents such as Brazil and Spain, it's just that in those years between 2009 and 2011 injuries were keeping him down. In the years between 2012 and 2014, he was able to avoid injuries more, and as such he had a greater impact at the 2012/13 Champions League, World Cup 2014, etc.

    Robben, Sneijder, and Van Persie were all underrated I'd argue. Of course, Robben being the more impressive talent out of those 3, as Robben was an all time great at his respective role.
     
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  9. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I don't know what his exact G/A stats are in those games, but for what it's worth Robben has the 3rd best CL KO grades of the past 10 - 15 years across the board and he's closer to Messi or Ronaldo than whoever is 4th. :thumbsup:
     
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  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Interesting. What are the candidates for #4? I had expected a strong score tbh (better than Iniesta for example but wouldn't immediately expect #3 at face value). He was quite effective/productive at those stages (links to sources here, quite a few semi final goals etc.) and then has also some well/highly rated games where didn't directly score or assist (vs Real Madrid 2017 for example, though he won a penalty there). So yeah I had expected a high score.
     
  11. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Sorry to clarify what I meant with high grades. I was thinking about total number/percentage of games that were rated 7+. Maybe it was a bit exaggerated that he is a lot better than whoever is 4th. Now whoever is 5th.... some Barca/Bayern/Real player

    Looking at GdS ratings Robben has 20. Iniesta has 21, but played more games.
    I haven't considered quality of competition and other sources yet, but I doubt it makes much of a difference.

    Zlatan has 4. Higuain has 2.
     
  12. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  13. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    "Johan Cruyff is a big phenomenon in Holland and I said three years ago that Robben, then a small phenomenon in Holland, would be a big phenomenon," said Jol Martin the Tottenham head coach

    There are maybe two or three players as good in the last 20 or 30 years,

    When I say Johan Cruyff is the best player ever, everybody says 'No', so I don't tell those stories any more. But in Holland we think that Robben now is the best left winger in Europe. I think Cruyff is the best player ever in dribbling. Yesterday I told somebody and he said: 'No George Best.'

    "I think Robben was as good when he was 17-years-old and he did the same things as he's doing now. Everbody said when he was in Holland: 'Yeah, but he can't beat five or six players in England'.

    "But he's doing the same now. I think Man United were the first club who spotted him because he told everybody that he was going to Man United. And then Peter Kenyon went to Chelsea and he signed him for Chelsea."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2353715/Jol-wary-of-reunion-with-Robben.html
     
  14. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #64 carlito86, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020


    The return of the wing wizard

    Netherlands legend Arjen Robben was persuaded to come out of retirement after Eredivisie side Groningen played clips of Michael Jordan's Last Dance documentary during contract talks

    Can robben achieve the impossible for Groningen?
    Do they become title contenders with him in their ranks?


    Will now be following Eredivisie properly for the first time in my life
     
  15. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's possible Robben gets underrated for this or called "one dimensional", even if he is literally unstoppable in that dimension. It wasn't until WC 2014 I realized he can show vision and playmaking from other areas of the pitch.
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  16. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-th...ut-of-retirement-include-scholescruyffdonovan
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
     

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