Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Here is an important bit from the Athletic interview:

    “A dynamic three in midfield who can cover ground, press in a 4-3-3, aggressive. We’re leaning toward using really dynamic players to cover the top three, and then you can start imagining guys who can cover ground, win balls and arrive in the penalty box as decent for that profile.” - Gregg

    Now before this, Gregg talked about Bradley/Trapp/Yuiell as the 6. So, unless he thinks those guys are aggressive and dynamic who can cover ground and win balls, there is a contradiction.

    When I look at that "profile" I think of some players, half have hardly played for Gregg:

    Adams
    McKennie
    Pomykal
    Holmes

    You can add Aaronsen to that list someday maybe. He is not near those players yet.

    What is amazing is that Gregg is only "leaning towards" this group of players. That must mean he is still going with the midfield profile that saw Roldan, Trapp, Bradley, Yuiell, Djorde, Lletget get significant playing time in a passive mid-block 4-4-2. What did he see in 2019 that he is hesitant to change?
     
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  2. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am getting the sense that Gregg is watching Reyna closely, and thinks he'll be the player he's been wanting to have in the front 3 that will allow him to change up his formation and tactics from what they have been, with Adams, McKennie (as dual 8s, each tending towards one side of the field) and X (Yueill? Pomykal? Holmes? Someone else?) providing the midfield 3. I'd guess it will look like a 4-1-2-3 or 4-1-3-2.

    --------------------------------------------------------------Altidore-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Pulisic--------------------------------Reyna-----------------------------------------

    -----------------------------------------------McKennie-------------Adams-------------------------------------------------

    -------------------------------------------------------------------X-----------------------------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------Dest-------------------------------------Cannon---------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------Brooks--------Long-------------------------------------------------------

    Something like that, based on what I've heard from Berhalter lately.
     
  3. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He saw his Ego staked to "The System". It is now doubly precious.
     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Adams has stated that he wants to play the 6 for the USMNT (where he’s shown himself to be far above his Minor league competitors) and then you have our coach potentially not playing him there for one of Yueill, Bradley or Trapp.

    SMH.
     
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  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What is the point of having a midfielder behind Adams and McKennie?

    to have him be a possession hub? To be the player in charge of distribution and presumably the most touches?

    If so, that’s the position that we’re leaving to a trio of non-elite minor league players? If not, why would we choose any of those three?

    I could see having a destroyer type which would allow the two 8s to gamble (Canouse as a modern Beckerman) but NFW should we let a non-core player be the hub of our possession. That’s stupid beyond comprehension.
     
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  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that a direct quote because I can't find it?

    “A dynamic three in midfield who can cover ground, press in a 4-3-3, aggressive. We’re leaning toward using really dynamic players to cover the top three, and then you can start imagining guys who can cover ground, win balls and arrive in the penalty box as decent for that profile.”

    This is the direct quote.
     
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  7. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who do you think the "leaning toward" refers to? That's a direct question.
     
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  8. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you are really listening to Berhalter. Where you put an X is the most predictable spot in the roster other than maybe keeper. Only Bradley/Trapp/Yueill ever play there and he has wavered on literally everything other than that and we are talking about what he just said, because what he just said is that he is going to keep playing them there.

    An accurate 11 if one listens to Berhalter:

    -----------------------X--------------------------
    X----------------------------------------------X
    --------X--------------------------X-------------
    -----------Bradley/Trapp/Yueill-------------
    X------------X------------------X--------------X
     
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  9. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That all sounds fine, but neither Adams nor McKinnie ever play the 6 for us and either of them are better in every single way right now than Bradley/Trapp/Yueill. McKinnie being sub par at the 6 is the prevailing wisdom to justify Berhater's idiotic choice to adhere to his system and crappy registas, but might I offer an alternative view with perhaps more objectivity?

    https://smarterscout.com/articles/b...mnt-fabian-ruiz-napoli-luiz-gustavo-righteous

    And it gets better. McKennie's ball retention is actually rated much higher at DM, which has a more challenging standard than at CM, showing just how much his game has matured. There can often be a tradeoff between ball retention and attacking output for young players; they either play too safely or fast and loose. But McKennie is generating excellent attacking output for a deep-lying midfielder even as his ability to maintain possession has improved.
     
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  10. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's great news that McKennie has improved his ball retention between his 1st and 3rd seasons (showing, as quoted, that his game has matured). I still don't see McKennie as a 6 for the US right now as I think his play is too sloppy to rely on him in that slot.

    Adams has only been available for one game for Berhalter. Yes, he has never played the 6 for the US. It's misleading to say this, though, as he has been injured for every other game.

    If Berhalter was going to go with a 4-4-2 then sure, I would definitely say Adams and McKennie as a dual pivot in the CM. But Berhalter is saying he's wanting to run a 4-3-3 (whatever his reasons), so if one of them is going to play the 6 (instead of Yueill or whoever) it's gotta be Adams. If you did that then you could please everyone by getting Reyna, Morris, and Pulisic on the field at the same time. I'd have Morris at right side in middle 3, probably more advanced, Mckennie tending left and more tucked in and back, Pulisic running the left sideline, Reyna pulling more centrally (with Morris overlapping and combining), and Altidore presumably, given Berhalter's comments, up top. LB in this scenario would probably be more advanced to support Pulisic, RB would be more stay-at-home. As long as Ream (or Lovitz) isn't the LB then in my mind this would work. Fairly lopsided 4-3-3, but I'm not sure there's much of a symmetrical formation that anyone really uses anymore.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like it says, leaning toward an aggressive, pressing, 4-3-3.
     
  12. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It seems pretty clear that he's talking about re: "leaning towards" using dynamic players for the front 3 in a 4-3-3, as opposed to whatever undynamic players he has in mind that he's played prior. I hear that as Reyna, Pulisic and someone else (probably Altidore, based on prior comments, but maybe that position is part of the change he's "leaning towards" too--so a Sargent?). Or maybe he sees Reyna as the center of the top 3 (I think less likely right now). Of course, he's always very vague. The guy should become a politician after coaching. With the soccer media we've got, we never get concrete answers or even specific answers. Seems like it's always something like "It could be any combination of A, B, C, D or E depending on the game" but none of the journalists ever ask "who are players A, B, C, D and E?" No f*cking clue.

    A dynamic three in midfield who can cover ground, press in a 4-3-3, aggressive. We’re leaning toward using really dynamic players to cover the top three, and then you can start imagining guys who can cover ground, win balls and arrive in the penalty box as decent for that profile.”
     
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  13. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It also refers to the players being "dynamic".... ah, I see Tomas Bernal made the point first, and made it well. . So I'll stop here.
     
  14. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter says he's "leaning towards" a dynamic front 3, with further indications that said dynamic front 3 will necessarily change the midfield behind them. I'm not sure where you have been able to make the assumption that, because he's "leaning towards" a dynamic front three, it means he's going to roll out the same midfield behind them.
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the front 3 will be Pulisic, Altidore and Morris or Zardes, with McKennie, Adams and a strong box to box runner in midfield. How about Nagbe?
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So that rules out Bradley and Trapp.
     
  17. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pulisic, Altidore and Morris could be considered a dynamic front 3. But his quote, to me, indicates a change in thought, so I doubt Zardes is really in contention for a major role here. Adams and McKennie are both strong b2b runners--and Nagbe seems to have taken himself completely out of consideration anyway. Could be Holmes or Pomykal.
     
  18. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, the quote only references the front 3 being dynamic.
     
  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Adams played the 6 v. Italy.
     
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  20. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair. I was thinking about the Berhalter era.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "A dynamic three in midfield who can cover ground, press in a 4-3-3, aggressive."

    This is what I was referring to, Sammy Lee, Terry McDermott and Graeme Souness.
     
  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    There has been some confusion about this quote along this line. Is he talking about the front 3 or the midfield 3? The TSS guys were split but then talked it out and came to the conclusion he is talking about the midfield 3.

    The article is organized along each position. In each position (GKs, Central Defense, etc.) is a quote and then the author's own thoughts. This quote is in the midfield section. They would not insert a quote about forwards in the midfield section.

    "Cover" in this sense, is to have three dynamic, aggressive, midfielders to handle the defense behind the forward line.
     
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  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    In a 3-5-2. He has never started as a 6 in front of a back 4.
     
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  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Uh, it is right there.
     
  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Guys, you are misreading it.

    “A dynamic three in midfield who can cover ground, press in a 4-3-3, aggressive. We’re leaning toward using really dynamic players to cover the top three, and then you can start imagining guys who can cover ground, win balls and arrive in the penalty box as decent for that profile.”

    He is discussing the midfield. He was asked about the midfield. The first sentence, "dynamic three in midfield". The second sentence is just expanding on what the "dynamic three in midfield" are going to be doing: cover [for] the front three, cover ground, win balls, arrive in the box.

    Reading that as talking about the forwards is wrong because he is talking about the midfield, forwards usually are not expected to: cover ground, win balls, arrive in the box. Midfielders cover ground, win ball, feed the ball to forwards who are in the box, then arrive late.

    You are misreading it completely. Re-read it like this:

    “A dynamic three in midfield who can cover ground, press in a 4-3-3, aggressive. We’re leaning toward using [them] to cover the top three, and then you can start imagining guys who can cover ground, win balls and arrive in the penalty box as decent for that profile.”

    Now read it with your interpretation:

    “A dynamic three in midfield who can cover ground, press in a 4-3-3, aggressive. We’re leaning toward using really [the three forwards] to cover the top three, and then you can start imagining guys who can cover ground, win balls and arrive in the penalty box as decent for that profile.”
     
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